Zone1 What to Do with Gaza?

[shimon]

FYI

To Moses We [Allah] gave nine clear signs. Ask the Israelites how he [Moses] first appeared amongst them. Pharoah said to him: 'Moses, I can see that you are bewitched.' 'You know full well,' he [Moses] replied, 'that none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth has revealed these visible signs. Pharoah, you are doomed.'"
"Pharoah sought to scare them [the Israelites] out of the land [of Israel]: but We [Allah] drowned him [Pharoah] together with all who were with him. Then We [Allah] said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land [the Land of Israel]. When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days] comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all together [in the Land of Israel]."
"We [Allah] have revealed the Qur'an with the truth, and with the truth it has come down. We have sent you [Muhammed] forth only to proclaim good news and to give warning."
[Qur'an, "Night Journey," chapter 17:100-104] I will just use this one passage from the Quran to show how full of crap Surada and king Abdullah of Jordan is regarding many things… King Abdullah was given his post of king of the make believe land of Jordan by the British his people were the gate keepers of Mecca before but the British carved off the land of Transjordan from the land that was allotted for a future Jewish homeland .. He is or was only interested in keeping his power and control over the land that was given to him when the Ottoman empire came to an end and the British decided what to do with the land they inherited..There are others verses as well that show this land belongs to the Jews but even the holy book of the muslims proclaims the land of Israel belongs to the Jews and they will Return and claim it at the end of this age…There is no truth in what you say Surada and king Abdullah and others like him had selfish reasons for trying to stop the jews from reclaiming their indigenous land…No special claim indeed… There are many clerics that realize this and admit it even though harm may befall them for admitting it in public …Surada and others would have you believe that there was no Jewish presence on the land for two millennium but that is a blatant lie Jews have always been there and at times in great numbers but they were always forced off or forced to convert time and time again but they always had a special thought and prayer for the land that is why when we celebrate Passover we always end it with a prayer that may we next year be in Jerusalem… Abdullah and Surada and the like want to standin the way and in the end they will fail…

 

[ESay]

No one is blaming Israel for taking action against Hamas and it's militias - this about Israel committing intentional WAR-CRIMES.
Something that obviously also Ukrainians an Russians have a problem with to understand.

You honestly believe that the present and all the former Israeli - retribution actions - have aided in a peace-process??
4800 dead women and children so far - just in Gaza - will create how many new radical Palestinian terrorists?
According to you it will create a basis for peace???

What I think is that Israel should backtrack in their wishes. They should get ready to find a solution about the 'Palestinian state' and the Jerusalem status.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Yes, but 750 thousand Palestinians were driven from their lands and homes,

Most of them chose to flee.

The European Jews didn't have the right to establish a Jewish State at their expense.

Aand yet, they did.
Try to take it from them.

 

[M14 Shooter]

UN you're using as an authority considers Israel's current occupation of the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza as illegal. T

Under international law, the West Bank belongs to Israel; Israel cannot "occupy" its own territory.
The UNs interest in this issue was discharged upon the codification of the Israel/Israel border in 1994.
The opinion of the UN does not matter, especially to the point hwere it overrides treaty law.

Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005, ending any possible claim of "occupation".

 

[M14 Shooter]

Bollocks!!

"Treaty of Peace Between the State of Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan", signed in 1994, says otherwise.

Main principles​

1. Borders: The international boundary between Israel and Jordan follows the Jordan and Yarmouk Rivers, the Dead Sea, the Emek Ha'Arava/Wadi Araba, and the Gulf of Aqaba.

Map:

 

[surada]

Generous treatment? Third class residents, far more heavily taxed than Muslims, restricted civil rights, restricted religious worship. Shall I go on?

Nope only able-bodied Jews paid jizya in lieu of military service and it was less than Muslim taxes.

 

[surada]

Under international law, the West Bank belongs to Israel; Israel cannot "occupy" its own territory.
The UNs interest in this issue was discharged upon the codification of the Israel/Israel border in 1994.
The opinion of the UN does not matter, especially to the point hwere it overrides treaty law.

Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005, ending any possible claim of "occupation".

Nope. Israel was not given the West Bank.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Nope. Israel was not given the West Bank.

Prior to the 6 day war, the border between Jordan and Israel was the western (et al) edge of the West Bank
As specified in the 1994 treaty, the border - the international boundary between Israel and Jordan - moved the Jordan river.
The West Bank is west of the Jordan River, and thus on the Israeli side of the border.
So, yes, Jordan ceded the West Bank to Israel.

1950-1994 border between Jordan and Israel:

1994+ border between Jordan and Israel:

 

[TruthNotBS]

Under international law, the West Bank belongs to Israel; Israel cannot "occupy" its own territory.
The UNs interest in this issue was discharged upon the codification of the Israel/Israel border in 1994.
The opinion of the UN does not matter, especially to the point hwere it overrides treaty law.

Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005, ending any possible claim of "occupation".

UN: " Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory is unlawful under international law due to its permanence and the Israeli government’s de facto annexation policies, a UN-appointed Commission of Inquiry said in its first report, published on Thursday."

Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory illegal: UN rights commission

Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory is unlawful under international law due to its permanence and the Israeli government’s de facto annexation policies, a UN-appointed Commission of Inquiry said in its first report, published on Thursday.

news.un.org

Israel's occupation of the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza is illegal. Gaza is still being occupied. How so? If I was occupying your house, by being in your house, then I leave your house, BUT I don't let you leave your house. I control everything that goes in and out of your house. I lay a fence with razor wire around your house. I fire missiles and drop bombs on your house. If I do all of that shit, I'm still occupying your house and YOUR LIFE. Wake up.

​

Israhell is committing suicide with its genocidal bombing campaign and besieging of Gaza. They jumped right into the trap of Hamas, which actually planned all of this. Hamas knew that Israel would jump right into it. When you Evangelicals see the word "Israel", you get all warm and fuzzy inside, thinking that the "Israel" on the map today is biblical Israel. It's not, it's a secular, political entity, that has nothing to do with your bible. Stop worshiping the Jews. They've taken over your mind and soul. You're so afraid of them. You think you're going to be cursed if you disagree with them, or say NO to them. You're like scared children. Completely delusional. They're not the "chosen ones".

 

[TruthNotBS]

Prior to the 6 day war, the border between Jordan and Israel was the western (et al) edge of the West Bank
As specified in the 1994 treaty, the border - the international boundary between Israel and Jordan - moved the Jordan river.
The West Bank is west of the Jordan River, and thus on the Israeli side of the border.
So, yes, Jordan ceded the West Bank to Israel.

1950-1994 border between Jordan and Israel:

View attachment 853717
1994+ border between Jordan and Israel:

View attachment 853719

Why should 1.4 million Palestinians move to Jordan from Palestine, to accommodate six hundred thousand European Jews? Why should they relinquish their lands and homes, their sacred places in Jerusalem, to Zionist Jews? You're not making any sense.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Most of them chose to flee.

Aand yet, they did.
Try to take it from them.

They did but not for long. The Zionist Jewish ethno-state was doomed to fail from the very beginning. Watch and see how Israel destroys itself today, due to its genocidal hubris. They're done.

 

[IM2]

How about looking at both sides of this?

How Benjamin Netanyahu empowered Hamas ... and broke Israel
Polling shows majority blame the PM not just for military failures but for ‘propping up’ the terrorist group in the first place

There is a reasonable chance Benjamin Netanyahu will be remembered as both Hamas’s nemesis and its enabler.

Today, and for however long it takes the Israel Defense Force (IDF) to neuter the military wing of the Islamist group in Gaza, the great bulk of the country’s body politic will stand behind its leader. In Gaza at least, Hamas’s capacity to wage jihad will be crushed, together with much of the political and paramilitary infrastructure through which it governs, analysts expect. Although sharply cognisant of the attendant risks, few in the Israeli mainstream believe they have much choice given the terrible events of Oct 7.

Yet national unity is being delivered through gritted teeth. Recent polling shows a significant majority of Israelis blame Mr Netanyahu not just for the military and intelligence failures that allowed the attack but for “propping up” the terrorist group in the first place.

“For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank – bringing Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group”, wrote political correspondent Tal Schneider in the Times of Israel last week. “The idea was to prevent Abbas – or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government – from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state”.

Dmitry Shumsky, a columnist for Haaretz, took a similar line, arguing that Mr Netanyahu had pursued a policy of “diplomatic paralysis” in order to avoid negotiations with the Palestinians over a two-state solution – a solution despised by the country’s extreme Right. This flawed strategy turned Hamas from “a minor terrorist group into an efficient, lethal army with bloodthirsty killers who mercilessly slaughtered innocent Israeli civilians”, said Mr Shumsky.

How Benjamin Netanyahu empowered Hamas ... and broke Israel

Polling shows majority blame the PM not just for military failures but for ‘propping up’ the terrorist group in the first place

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[M14 Shooter]

UN: " Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory is unlawful under international law due to its permanence and the Israeli government’s de facto annexation policies, a UN-appointed Commission of Inquiry said in its first report, published on Thursday."

The controversy of Israeli "occupation" under international law was settled in 1994.
As such, the opinion of the UN does not matter, especially to the point where it conflicts with established treaty law.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Why should 1.4 million Palestinians move to Jordan from Palestine, to accommodate six hundred thousand European Jews? Why should they relinquish their lands and homes, their sacred places in Jerusalem, to Zionist Jews? You're not making any sense.

Nothing here is relevant to, much less soundly critical of, what I said.
Hint: If you have a sound argument against my post, you do not need me to answer any questions.

 

[M14 Shooter]

They did but not for long. The Zionist Jewish ethno-state was doomed to fail from the very beginning. Watch and see how Israel destroys itself today, due to its genocidal hubris. They're done.

Your hatred of Jews clearly renders you incapable of coherent thought.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Your hatred of Jews clearly renders you incapable of coherent thought.

How so?

 

[TruthNotBS]

Nothing here is relevant to, much less soundly critical of, what I said.
Hint: If you have a sound argument against my post, you do not need me to answer any questions.

You assert that the UN doesn't consider Israel's control of the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza illegal when it certainly does. I presented a link to a UN source that explicitly identifies Isreal's control of these territories as an illegal occupation of Palestinian land. Your denial of this is what defies coherent thought.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You assert that the UN doesn't consider Israel's control of the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza illegal when it certainly does.

Jordan ceded the West Bank to Israel in 1994.
Israel cannot "occupy", illegally or otherwise, territory within its borders.
The opinion of the UN to the contrary does not matter; Israel can no more "occupy" the West Bank than the US can "occupy" Puerto Rico.

 

[M14 Shooter]

How so?

The incoherence of the post I responded to proves my claim.

 

[TruthNotBS]

The controversy of Israeli "occupation" under international law was settled in 1994.
As such, the opinion of the UN does not matter, especially to the point where it conflicts with established treaty law.

The Oslo Accords were ignored by Israel when they continued to expand settlements into the West Bank. The UN's resolutions do matter, and to the extent that Israel remains in control of Palestinian territories, it will be breaking international law. Occupiers have no right to defend themselves against the occupied. They should stop their illegal occupations and conform to international law.

Whatever skewed justifications you disingenuously conjure up in support of your xenophobic, ethno-Jewish state fail miserably. Israhell is committing suicide right now before the world, with its genocidal bombing campaign in Gaza. Watch and see.