Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

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RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

As previously stated (supra Posting 14554), the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) is not based on political subjectivity, but attempts to achieve "military advantage."

What military advantage does Israel anticipate?
(COMMENT)

You are trying to use "political rhetoric" to attack the attempts to achieve a "military advantage." Your attempts to use effective or persuasive speech to counter attempts to set the conditions and battle outcomes that put Israel in a favorable and superior military position.

Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. Yet they still get protests. They still get rockets. Nothing has changed.
(COMMENT)

In the absence of any good-faith attempts at a negotiated peace:

On this basis the Palestinian masses, regardless of whether they are residing in the national homeland or in Diaspora (mahajir) constitute- both their organizations and the individuals- one national front working for the retrieval of Palestine and its liberation through armed struggle.

Thus, at some point, the military paradigm (example or pattern of combat action) to compromise the will of the Arab Palestinians to carry on the conflict.

Today, the reason that the Israeli Military effort to suppress Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is that the Humanitarian effort, while well-meaning, is counterproductive to breaking the HoAP will to carry on with the oath:

"The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child."

As long as the HoAP persists in this endeavor, the longer the conflict and the more the Arab Palestinians will suffer at their own hand.

Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
(COMMENT)

As for Israel shooting "its way out of a political problem" → it is an entirely wrong assessment in the wrong domain (political paradox 'vs' actual military action). (One talks about solutions and one is implementation of reality towards a solution.) You are confusing an Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) approach against International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States and the framework effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace (ie Hostile Arab Palestinians • HoAP).

Arab Answers to Israel's Peace Offers.jpg
...........
Most Respectfully,
R [ → (Doofus)(stupid person)(ad hominem)][/QUOTE]
 
What military advantage does Israel anticipate? Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. Yet they still get protests. They still get rockets. Nothing has changed.

Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem. :290968001256257790-final:

Holy missing the point(s), Batman.

Let me sum up, since apparently Rocco's post was too complicated for you.

1. The over-arching communal goal of the international community is to have peaceful relations between states.
2. Belligerent military actions are never permissible, as they oppose the goal of peaceful relations.
3. When responding to belligerent military actions, military advantage serves the purpose of physically preventing, or psychologically discouraging, further belligerent actions.
4. Proportionality is measured as achieving the military advantage but not exceeding losses necessary for that advantage.

So, to answer your post.

1. Israel anticipates the military advantage of ending the belligerent attacks and restoring peace. Israel has tended, for a variety of reasons, and morally admirably, imo, to limit the achievement of military advantage. Israel, thus far, with respect to Gaza, aims to do the absolute minimum necessary to achieve the cessation of rockets in the short term. Israel has shown astonishing restraint, given that the rockets continue and military advantage of ending the rockets on a more permanent basis is well within her rights to self defense.

2. Your second sentence is an outright lie, but is immaterial to the conversation, since number of civilian deaths is not relevant to military advantage or as a measurement of proportionality. It also fails to place responsibility for belligerent military actions where it properly belongs.

3. Yes, they still get rockets and protests. Thus demonstrating that Israel has not achieved a military advantage. Indeed, Israel has deliberately given up her military advantage in order to minimize civilian loss of life for Palestinians, even though she is in no way required to do so. It begs the question, should Israel increase her military advantage and achieve a decisive end to any further belligerent attacks from Gaza?

4. Nice reversal of reality (sarcasm). It is Gaza attempting to shoot itself out of a political problem, not Israel. What is the political problem? And how can it be achieved? Rockets and violent protests are not in any way either meant to or effective in solving the political problem.
You keep forgetting that it is Israel that is the aggressor.

Ah, actually, no. Remembering the goal is peaceful relations between states, the Arabs have been the aggressors in every single instance. Certainly, remember that its a "political problem" and not a military problem, rockets have no place in the conversation and do nothing to further the goal of peaceful relations.

What is Gaze doing to solve the political problem you brought up?
 
You are confusing an Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) approach against International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States and the framework effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace...

Yes, AND this inability to operate within the framework of Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States is the reason why Arab Palestine is still (!) not ready to take on the role of a State on the global stage, and, honestly, may never be able to.
 
not ready to take on the role of a State on the global stage, and, honestly, may never be able to.

I'm sure you meant to say--"Israel not ready to take on the role of a State on the global stage, and, honestly, may never be able to"

God knew this way back then, Israel is unfit.
King James Bible
And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.

(Ezek 36:17 KJV) Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

(Ezek 36:18 KJV) Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it.

(Ezek 36:22 KJV) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

(Ezek 36:24 KJV) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

(Ezek 36:31 KJV) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

(Ezek 36:32 KJV) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.


King James Bible
Ezekiel 21:32
Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.

:)-
 
What military advantage does Israel anticipate? Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. Yet they still get protests. They still get rockets. Nothing has changed.

Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem. :290968001256257790-final:

Holy missing the point(s), Batman.

Let me sum up, since apparently Rocco's post was too complicated for you.

1. The over-arching communal goal of the international community is to have peaceful relations between states.
2. Belligerent military actions are never permissible, as they oppose the goal of peaceful relations.
3. When responding to belligerent military actions, military advantage serves the purpose of physically preventing, or psychologically discouraging, further belligerent actions.
4. Proportionality is measured as achieving the military advantage but not exceeding losses necessary for that advantage.

So, to answer your post.

1. Israel anticipates the military advantage of ending the belligerent attacks and restoring peace. Israel has tended, for a variety of reasons, and morally admirably, imo, to limit the achievement of military advantage. Israel, thus far, with respect to Gaza, aims to do the absolute minimum necessary to achieve the cessation of rockets in the short term. Israel has shown astonishing restraint, given that the rockets continue and military advantage of ending the rockets on a more permanent basis is well within her rights to self defense.

2. Your second sentence is an outright lie, but is immaterial to the conversation, since number of civilian deaths is not relevant to military advantage or as a measurement of proportionality. It also fails to place responsibility for belligerent military actions where it properly belongs.

3. Yes, they still get rockets and protests. Thus demonstrating that Israel has not achieved a military advantage. Indeed, Israel has deliberately given up her military advantage in order to minimize civilian loss of life for Palestinians, even though she is in no way required to do so. It begs the question, should Israel increase her military advantage and achieve a decisive end to any further belligerent attacks from Gaza?

4. Nice reversal of reality (sarcasm). It is Gaza attempting to shoot itself out of a political problem, not Israel. What is the political problem? And how can it be achieved? Rockets and violent protests are not in any way either meant to or effective in solving the political problem.
You keep forgetting that it is Israel that is the aggressor.

Ah, actually, no. Remembering the goal is peaceful relations between states, the Arabs have been the aggressors in every single instance. Certainly, remember that its a "political problem" and not a military problem, rockets have no place in the conversation and do nothing to further the goal of peaceful relations.

What is Gaze doing to solve the political problem you brought up?
Only Israel can stop Israel's war.
 
What military advantage does Israel anticipate? Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. Yet they still get protests. They still get rockets. Nothing has changed.

Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem. :290968001256257790-final:

Holy missing the point(s), Batman.

Let me sum up, since apparently Rocco's post was too complicated for you.

1. The over-arching communal goal of the international community is to have peaceful relations between states.
2. Belligerent military actions are never permissible, as they oppose the goal of peaceful relations.
3. When responding to belligerent military actions, military advantage serves the purpose of physically preventing, or psychologically discouraging, further belligerent actions.
4. Proportionality is measured as achieving the military advantage but not exceeding losses necessary for that advantage.

So, to answer your post.

1. Israel anticipates the military advantage of ending the belligerent attacks and restoring peace. Israel has tended, for a variety of reasons, and morally admirably, imo, to limit the achievement of military advantage. Israel, thus far, with respect to Gaza, aims to do the absolute minimum necessary to achieve the cessation of rockets in the short term. Israel has shown astonishing restraint, given that the rockets continue and military advantage of ending the rockets on a more permanent basis is well within her rights to self defense.

2. Your second sentence is an outright lie, but is immaterial to the conversation, since number of civilian deaths is not relevant to military advantage or as a measurement of proportionality. It also fails to place responsibility for belligerent military actions where it properly belongs.

3. Yes, they still get rockets and protests. Thus demonstrating that Israel has not achieved a military advantage. Indeed, Israel has deliberately given up her military advantage in order to minimize civilian loss of life for Palestinians, even though she is in no way required to do so. It begs the question, should Israel increase her military advantage and achieve a decisive end to any further belligerent attacks from Gaza?

4. Nice reversal of reality (sarcasm). It is Gaza attempting to shoot itself out of a political problem, not Israel. What is the political problem? And how can it be achieved? Rockets and violent protests are not in any way either meant to or effective in solving the political problem.
You keep forgetting that it is Israel that is the aggressor.

Ah, actually, no. Remembering the goal is peaceful relations between states, the Arabs have been the aggressors in every single instance. Certainly, remember that its a "political problem" and not a military problem, rockets have no place in the conversation and do nothing to further the goal of peaceful relations.

What is Gaze doing to solve the political problem you brought up?
Only Israel can stop Israel's war.

By pushing the Gazans into the sea.
 
RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

As previously stated (supra Posting 14554), the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) is not based on political subjectivity, but attempts to achieve "military advantage."

What military advantage does Israel anticipate?
(COMMENT)

You are trying to use "political rhetoric" to attack the attempts to achieve a "military advantage." Your attempts to use effective or persuasive speech to counter attempts to set the conditions and battle outcomes that put Israel in a favorable and superior military position.

Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. Yet they still get protests. They still get rockets. Nothing has changed.
(COMMENT)

In the absence of any good-faith attempts at a negotiated peace:

On this basis the Palestinian masses, regardless of whether they are residing in the national homeland or in Diaspora (mahajir) constitute- both their organizations and the individuals- one national front working for the retrieval of Palestine and its liberation through armed struggle.

Thus, at some point, the military paradigm (example or pattern of combat action) to compromise the will of the Arab Palestinians to carry on the conflict.

Today, the reason that the Israeli Military effort to suppress Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is that the Humanitarian effort, while well-meaning, is counterproductive to breaking the HoAP will to carry on with the oath:

"The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child."

As long as the HoAP persists in this endeavor, the longer the conflict and the more the Arab Palestinians will suffer at their own hand.

Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem.
(COMMENT)

As for Israel shooting "its way out of a political problem" → it is an entirely wrong assessment in the wrong domain (political paradox 'vs' actual military action). (One talks about solutions and one is implementation of reality towards a solution.) You are confusing an Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) approach against International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States and the framework effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace (ie Hostile Arab Palestinians • HoAP).
...........
Most Respectfully,
R [ → (Doofus)(stupid person)(ad hominem)]
[/QUOTE]
You are confusing an Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) approach against International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States
Do you have a link accusing Hamas of that?
 
What military advantage does Israel anticipate? Year after year Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands. Yet they still get protests. They still get rockets. Nothing has changed.

Israel keeps trying to shoot its way out of a political problem. :290968001256257790-final:

Holy missing the point(s), Batman.

Let me sum up, since apparently Rocco's post was too complicated for you.

1. The over-arching communal goal of the international community is to have peaceful relations between states.
2. Belligerent military actions are never permissible, as they oppose the goal of peaceful relations.
3. When responding to belligerent military actions, military advantage serves the purpose of physically preventing, or psychologically discouraging, further belligerent actions.
4. Proportionality is measured as achieving the military advantage but not exceeding losses necessary for that advantage.

So, to answer your post.

1. Israel anticipates the military advantage of ending the belligerent attacks and restoring peace. Israel has tended, for a variety of reasons, and morally admirably, imo, to limit the achievement of military advantage. Israel, thus far, with respect to Gaza, aims to do the absolute minimum necessary to achieve the cessation of rockets in the short term. Israel has shown astonishing restraint, given that the rockets continue and military advantage of ending the rockets on a more permanent basis is well within her rights to self defense.

2. Your second sentence is an outright lie, but is immaterial to the conversation, since number of civilian deaths is not relevant to military advantage or as a measurement of proportionality. It also fails to place responsibility for belligerent military actions where it properly belongs.

3. Yes, they still get rockets and protests. Thus demonstrating that Israel has not achieved a military advantage. Indeed, Israel has deliberately given up her military advantage in order to minimize civilian loss of life for Palestinians, even though she is in no way required to do so. It begs the question, should Israel increase her military advantage and achieve a decisive end to any further belligerent attacks from Gaza?

4. Nice reversal of reality (sarcasm). It is Gaza attempting to shoot itself out of a political problem, not Israel. What is the political problem? And how can it be achieved? Rockets and violent protests are not in any way either meant to or effective in solving the political problem.
You keep forgetting that it is Israel that is the aggressor.

Ah, actually, no. Remembering the goal is peaceful relations between states, the Arabs have been the aggressors in every single instance. Certainly, remember that its a "political problem" and not a military problem, rockets have no place in the conversation and do nothing to further the goal of peaceful relations.

What is Gaze doing to solve the political problem you brought up?
Only Israel can stop Israel's war.

Hamas initiated an act of war by firing rockets at Israel.

How did you miss that?
 
RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't believe you are actually discussing this in good faith. No member of this Discussion for any length of time and not know this simple fact. You even post propaganda videos on this web site quite frequenctly. You have even advocated the use of violence and promoted the idea that violence is somehow lawful.

You are confusing an Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) approach against International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States
Do you have a link accusing Hamas of that?
(COMMENT)

I give you a bit of the abundance there is out there. No two are from the same source and no two are the same type of propaganda, and no two are from the same perspective.


Israel has thwarted 50 jihad attacks by the Islamic State ...•
Jul 11, 2019 · The jihad death cult has been winning the global propaganda war against Israel, despite the latter’s ongoing efforts to save life, unlike its Palestinian neighbors, whose leaders are oppressing their own people and blaming Israel. Hamas also uses the Palestinian people, including children, as human shields.

Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas: No Peace as Long as Israel Exists
By Pamela Geller - on July 3, 2019

Ilhan Omar Has a Habit of Tweeting Hamas Terrorist Propaganda
May 8, 2019 by Bonchie


• Rashida Tlaib justifies latest Hamas terror attack, condemns Israel for defending itself •
May 6, 2019 | Frieda Powers

Hamas and the Terrorism Double Standard | Jewish & Israel
May 02, 2019 Sean Durns / JNS.org

Hamas' propaganda coup
16 May 2018 | Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry

Hamas wants Palestinians killed to score propaganda points against Israel
15 May 2018 | By Rabbi Abraham Cooper, | Fox News

Operation Protective Edge: Hamas’ Propaganda War

INSS Insight No. 582, August 3, 2014

"Psychological Tricks to Demoralize the Enemy"
Spiegel. January 16, 2009.



Most Respectfully,
R
 
Last edited:
It's quite the comedy of bungling Islamic terrorists. Hamas is claiming they are not aware of what "unknown factions" launched a series of rockets at Israel.



Gaza rocket fire at Israel was act of defiance against Hamas, says official in the Strip

The rockets that were fired into southern Israel on Friday night from Gaza were not launched by one of the major factions in the Strip, which collaborate through the joint war room, a Hamas official told Haaretz on Saturday.

He also said that this was an act of defiance against Hamas by unknown factors. At the same time, Israel's response is seen in the Strip as deviating from the rules estbalished in the region in recent months - in a way that indicates that Israel intends to escalate the situation, he said.
 
RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't believe you are actually discussing this in good faith. No member of this Discussion for any length of time and not know this simple fact. You even post propaganda videos on this web site quite frequenctly. You have even advocated the use of violence and promoted the idea that violence is somehow lawful.

You are confusing an Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) approach against International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States
Do you have a link accusing Hamas of that?
(COMMENT)

I give you a bit of the abundance there is out there. No two are from the same source and no two are the same type of propaganda, and no two are from the same perspective.


Israel has thwarted 50 jihad attacks by the Islamic State ...•
Jul 11, 2019 · The jihad death cult has been winning the global propaganda war against Israel, despite the latter’s ongoing efforts to save life, unlike its Palestinian neighbors, whose leaders are oppressing their own people and blaming Israel. Hamas also uses the Palestinian people, including children, as human shields.

Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas: No Peace as Long as Israel Exists
By Pamela Geller - on July 3, 2019

Ilhan Omar Has a Habit of Tweeting Hamas Terrorist Propaganda
May 8, 2019 by Bonchie


• Rashida Tlaib justifies latest Hamas terror attack, condemns Israel for defending itself •
May 6, 2019 | Frieda Powers

Hamas and the Terrorism Double Standard | Jewish & Israel
May 02, 2019 Sean Durns / JNS.org

Hamas' propaganda coup
16 May 2018 | Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry

Hamas wants Palestinians killed to score propaganda points against Israel
15 May 2018 | By Rabbi Abraham Cooper, | Fox News

Operation Protective Edge: Hamas’ Propaganda War

INSS Insight No. 582, August 3, 2014

"Psychological Tricks to Demoralize the Enemy"
Spiegel. January 16, 2009.



Most Respectfully,
R
You are ducking my question.
 
RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, no...

I don't believe you are actually discussing this in good faith. No member of this Discussion for any length of time and not know this simple fact. You even post propaganda videos on this web site quite frequently. You have even advocated the use of violence and promoted the idea that violence is somehow lawful.

You are confusing an Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) approach against International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States
Do you have a link accusing Hamas of that?
(COMMENT)

I give you a bit of the abundance there is out there. No two are from the same source and no two are the same type of propaganda, and no two are from the same perspective.


Israel has thwarted 50 jihad attacks by the Islamic State ...•
Jul 11, 2019 · The jihad death cult has been winning the global propaganda war against Israel, despite the latter’s ongoing efforts to save life, unlike its Palestinian neighbors, whose leaders are oppressing their own people and blaming Israel. Hamas also uses the Palestinian people, including children, as human shields.

Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas: No Peace as Long as Israel Exists
By Pamela Geller - on July 3, 2019

Ilhan Omar Has a Habit of Tweeting Hamas Terrorist Propaganda
May 8, 2019 by Bonchie


• Rashida Tlaib justifies latest Hamas terror attack, condemns Israel for defending itself •
May 6, 2019 | Frieda Powers

Hamas and the Terrorism Double Standard | Jewish & Israel
May 02, 2019 Sean Durns / JNS.org

Hamas' propaganda coup
16 May 2018 | Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry

Hamas wants Palestinians killed to score propaganda points against Israel
15 May 2018 | By Rabbi Abraham Cooper, | Fox News

Operation Protective Edge: Hamas’ Propaganda War

INSS Insight No. 582, August 3, 2014

"Psychological Tricks to Demoralize the Enemy"
Spiegel. January 16, 2009.



Most Respectfully,
R
You are ducking my question.
(COMMENT)

This is not a case of me "ducking the question." It is a case of you, using that worthless retort to avoid acknowledging the answer.




Most Respectfully,
R
 
RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, no...

I don't believe you are actually discussing this in good faith. No member of this Discussion for any length of time and not know this simple fact. You even post propaganda videos on this web site quite frequently. You have even advocated the use of violence and promoted the idea that violence is somehow lawful.

You are confusing an Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) approach against International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States
Do you have a link accusing Hamas of that?
(COMMENT)

I give you a bit of the abundance there is out there. No two are from the same source and no two are the same type of propaganda, and no two are from the same perspective.


Israel has thwarted 50 jihad attacks by the Islamic State ...•
Jul 11, 2019 · The jihad death cult has been winning the global propaganda war against Israel, despite the latter’s ongoing efforts to save life, unlike its Palestinian neighbors, whose leaders are oppressing their own people and blaming Israel. Hamas also uses the Palestinian people, including children, as human shields.

Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas: No Peace as Long as Israel Exists
By Pamela Geller - on July 3, 2019

Ilhan Omar Has a Habit of Tweeting Hamas Terrorist Propaganda
May 8, 2019 by Bonchie


• Rashida Tlaib justifies latest Hamas terror attack, condemns Israel for defending itself •
May 6, 2019 | Frieda Powers

Hamas and the Terrorism Double Standard | Jewish & Israel
May 02, 2019 Sean Durns / JNS.org

Hamas' propaganda coup
16 May 2018 | Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry

Hamas wants Palestinians killed to score propaganda points against Israel
15 May 2018 | By Rabbi Abraham Cooper, | Fox News

Operation Protective Edge: Hamas’ Propaganda War

INSS Insight No. 582, August 3, 2014

"Psychological Tricks to Demoralize the Enemy"
Spiegel. January 16, 2009.



Most Respectfully,
R
You are ducking my question.
(COMMENT)

This is not a case of me "ducking the question." It is a case of you, using that worthless retort to avoid acknowledging the answer.




Most Respectfully,
R
The question was: "Do you have a link accusing Hamas of that?"

What part of all that answered that question?
 
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