Who should be responsible for pension bills in Detroit?

[ScreamingEagle]

so are Michigan taxpayers (the State) off the hook for Detroit pensions or what...?

Judge: State lawsuits cannot block Detroit bankruptcy filing * - NBC News.com

it appears they are....

The decision by Judge Steven Rhodes of United States Bankruptcy Court freezes all litigation against the city during the bankruptcy process and consolidates state-level legal challenges to Detroit’s Chapter 9 filing into the federal bankruptcy case.

The federal bankruptcy court has “exclusive jurisdiction” over the case, he said, adding, “There is no case law that holds otherwise.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/25/us/judge-clears-path-for-detroit-bankruptcy-case.html?_r=0

 

[Edgetho]

Most of the Detroit healthcare liablility will be moved into Barry-Care and thus set on the plate of all us taxpayers to cover. That's why Obama isn't saying shit about the bankruptcy because the big chunk of the shortfall moves to the "affordable" care act.

the Stuttering Clusterfukk CAN'T bail out Dee-Troit.

If he does, there will be about 400 other Cities that want a bail out.

He can't set a precedent for something that stupid.

Just another lie. From just another liar.

Remember when he promised he wouldn't let Dee-Troit fail in the 2012 campaign? A few short Months ago?

He lied. He had no vision of ever keeping that promise.

But that's what dimocraps do... They lie.

It's one thing to make a mistake. We all do that.

It's another to change your stance. Some of us do that every few years.

It's quite another to look someone in the eye and tell a bald-faced fucking lie by making a promise you have NO INTENTION of keeping.

That's what dimocrap scum are famous for.

It's somewhere around lie, number 1,736 for him. That's a lot. Even for the scum of the Earth; dimocraps

Where you from?

I lived outside of Cleveland for several years, the Army for 5-1/2 years, back to Cleveland for a couple years. Said 'Fuck this place' and been in SW Florida for the last 36 years.

While owning and manning an Insurance Agency, I got time to read and learn -- you got some down-time once in a while, then it goes from slow to insane in micro-seconds.

Once we went to Computers and a couple years later the internet came around, I had time to cruise the 'net.

I also met and talked to people from every single State in this Country and from dozens of Countries of the World.

EVERY body wants to move Florida at some point in their lives. Some do. Most of the ones that are still working age fail and have to go back home to Mommy and Daddy. Florida ain't an easy place to make a living if you don't have a skill. Not a lot of unskilled labor in Florida. No manufacturing.

I also met a lot of people who were still working age and were still working UP NORTH.

The smart ones? They'd buy their place down here and pay for it while they were working up North. Some times they'd rent it out, too. That kinda came to a screeching halt around 2007. Hurt a lot of people.

Still a smart move and it's coming back quite a bit

If you live in the armpit of the Universe..... New Yawk, Chi-town, Dee-Troit, Cleveland, Joisey, etc. And the thought of living out your final, retirement years there makes you want to kill yourself, it's still not a bad idea to buy a place now; while you can afford to make the payments.

Then, when you retire, you got something to look forward to. Florida. Beats the hell out of...

Anyway. I talk a lot and most people like talking to me. There's always the exception, but most people enjoyed talking to me and I'm pretty inquisitive.

I learned a lot. Really a lot from other people.

I seldom opine on things I know nothing about. If I do jump in, it's usually to ask a question.

dimocraps? All they do is offer opinions. And they're virtually always on something they know nothing about.

Which is -- Just about everything, really

 

[Vox]

Detroit's takers and givers.

 

[Vox]

I also met a lot of people who were still working age and were still working UP NORTH.

The smart ones? They'd buy their place down here and pay for it while they were working up North. Some times they'd rent it out, too. That kinda came to a screeching halt around 2007. Hurt a lot of people.

Still a smart move and it's coming back quite a bit

If you live in the armpit of the Universe..... New Yawk, Chi-town, Dee-Troit, Cleveland, Joisey, etc. And the thought of living out your final, retirement years there makes you want to kill yourself, it's still not a bad idea to buy a place now; while you can afford to make the payments.

Khm... stop advertising

we already have a shithole voting dems only( you know where) you want more of those libtards moving here?
No, thank you.

 

[Meathead]

Detrroit ccould be bailed out under the same way the EU bailed Greece out. Let thee austerity riots begin.

Spot on. I am a Greek citizen and lived there through much of Papandreau's socialist party which ruled for about 25 of the 30 years prior to Greece's economic collapse for many but not all of the same reasons.

 

[Edgetho]

I also met a lot of people who were still working age and were still working UP NORTH.

The smart ones? They'd buy their place down here and pay for it while they were working up North. Some times they'd rent it out, too. That kinda came to a screeching halt around 2007. Hurt a lot of people.

Still a smart move and it's coming back quite a bit

If you live in the armpit of the Universe..... New Yawk, Chi-town, Dee-Troit, Cleveland, Joisey, etc. And the thought of living out your final, retirement years there makes you want to kill yourself, it's still not a bad idea to buy a place now; while you can afford to make the payments.

Khm... stop advertising

we already have a shithole voting dems only( you know where) you want more of those libtards moving here?
No, thank you.

Yeah, most of those people came down her from the North East. Those people aren't extraordinarily popular on this Coast. But they still come in.

They sell their clapboard, crackerbox, cardboard fire trap up North for $500k, come down here and are AMAZED by what they can get for half that money.

One thing...... Those people...? I'm serious, they might as well have come from the Ghetto.

Even when they don't 'over buy' they don't know how to take care of a House. I mean, as long as they got money to spare and can PAY somebody to take care of their house, sometimes they're okay.

But the worst rednecks we get down here...?

They're from up North.

Of course, then we have actual, honest-to-God rednecks. But most of them have moved up North.

A few have stayed.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Actually while I may lose social security when it runs out, my military retirement has to be paid, the Federal Government has an amendment to the Constitution that specifically states all pensions for the military must be paid.

But ya the retards all think that the social security debt the Government owes is a safe bet, of course when the Government runs out of money the first thing it will do is quit paying debts.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I also met a lot of people who were still working age and were still working UP NORTH.

The smart ones? They'd buy their place down here and pay for it while they were working up North. Some times they'd rent it out, too. That kinda came to a screeching halt around 2007. Hurt a lot of people.

Still a smart move and it's coming back quite a bit

If you live in the armpit of the Universe..... New Yawk, Chi-town, Dee-Troit, Cleveland, Joisey, etc. And the thought of living out your final, retirement years there makes you want to kill yourself, it's still not a bad idea to buy a place now; while you can afford to make the payments.

Khm... stop advertising

we already have a shithole voting dems only( you know where) you want more of those libtards moving here?
No, thank you.

Yeah, most of those people came down her from the North East. Those people aren't extraordinarily popular on this Coast. But they still come in.

They sell their clapboard, crackerbox, cardboard fire trap up North for $500k, come down here and are AMAZED by what they can get for half that money.

One thing...... Those people...? I'm serious, they might as well have come from the Ghetto.

Even when they don't 'over buy' they don't know how to take care of a House. I mean, as long as they got money to spare and can PAY somebody to take care of their house, sometimes they're okay.

But the worst rednecks we get down here...?

They're from up North.

Of course, then we have actual, honest-to-God rednecks. But most of them have moved up North.

A few have stayed.

The worse Northerners are the fucking liberals they fuck up my home state of illinois then come to the south and say "why cant this place be more like the north" go fuck your selfs you liberal vultures...I tell them to take a nice canoe ride on the Chattooga River. (deliverence lol)

 

[Vox]

Khm... stop advertising

we already have a shithole voting dems only( you know where) you want more of those libtards moving here?
No, thank you.

Yeah, most of those people came down her from the North East. Those people aren't extraordinarily popular on this Coast. But they still come in.

They sell their clapboard, crackerbox, cardboard fire trap up North for $500k, come down here and are AMAZED by what they can get for half that money.

One thing...... Those people...? I'm serious, they might as well have come from the Ghetto.

Even when they don't 'over buy' they don't know how to take care of a House. I mean, as long as they got money to spare and can PAY somebody to take care of their house, sometimes they're okay.

But the worst rednecks we get down here...?

They're from up North.

Of course, then we have actual, honest-to-God rednecks. But most of them have moved up North.

A few have stayed.

The worse Northerners are the fucking liberals they fuck up my home state of illinois then come to the south and say "why cant this place be more like the north" go fuck your selfs you liberal vultures...I tell them to take a nice canoe ride on the Chattooga River. (deliverence lol)

well, that is exactly my point.
they ruin their northern socialist states and then run to states which are OK due to resistance to those socialist dumb-ass ideas and start voting the same cockroaches into power as they did up North.
So in a very near future the socialist mayhem will start here.

They move here already in big numbers, we don't need more advertisement to speed up the doom and gloom

 

[thereisnospoon]

I also met a lot of people who were still working age and were still working UP NORTH.

The smart ones? They'd buy their place down here and pay for it while they were working up North. Some times they'd rent it out, too. That kinda came to a screeching halt around 2007. Hurt a lot of people.

Still a smart move and it's coming back quite a bit

If you live in the armpit of the Universe..... New Yawk, Chi-town, Dee-Troit, Cleveland, Joisey, etc. And the thought of living out your final, retirement years there makes you want to kill yourself, it's still not a bad idea to buy a place now; while you can afford to make the payments.

Khm... stop advertising

we already have a shithole voting dems only( you know where) you want more of those libtards moving here?
No, thank you.

Yeah, most of those people came down her from the North East. Those people aren't extraordinarily popular on this Coast. But they still come in.

They sell their clapboard, crackerbox, cardboard fire trap up North for $500k, come down here and are AMAZED by what they can get for half that money.

One thing...... Those people...? I'm serious, they might as well have come from the Ghetto.

Even when they don't 'over buy' they don't know how to take care of a House. I mean, as long as they got money to spare and can PAY somebody to take care of their house, sometimes they're okay.

But the worst rednecks we get down here...?

They're from up North.

Of course, then we have actual, honest-to-God rednecks. But most of them have moved up North.

A few have stayed.

To whom are you referring?.
I hail from the Northeast. I have lived here for 20 years. I am not a redneck nor am I liberal.
I am sort of confused.
Clap board cardboard?

 

[tigerbob]

For those who understand why there is no such thing as a social security trust fund, this is going to scare the snot out of you. For those who believe in the fantasy land belief that government loaning itself money is an asset, nothing is going to get through to you anyway, so just have a cookie and smile. However, here is the reality.

All those years of negotiations between government workers at the local, State and Federal level, including and particularly teachers, the reality is that government never saved a dime to pay for it. Just like social security, all those retirements were simply promised against future taxpayer money. And like Social Security, IOUs from government to itself were written. My mother was a physical therapist for the Kalamazoo school system, and she’s learning now that there are no assets behind her pension as well.

Which is why those plans are so generous. The people who promised them didn’t pay for them, and they knew they’d be long gone before the bills came due. Guess what, they are coming due. It’s not just social security that was unfunded by our parents, it’s every one of those workers, who are now coming to us to make good on promises that were made with no money to back it up.

None of this information is new. All the contracts were negotiated and agreed to by the unions without any of the governments putting up dime one to fund them. And it was public information, no one wanted to think about it. So, who should be responsible for this?

- Workers who looked the other way and supported unions who negotiated the deals for them?

- Today’s taxpayer who wasn’t involved at all.

Yes, it’s too bad. But taxpayers should not be stuck with other people’s bills just because we feel sorry for them. The fact is they worked for employers and were promised pensions without anything being saved to cover them. Private sector pensions have minimum funding requirements. Government sector pensions have none. They were planning to stick us for the bill. The bureaucrats knew they’d be gone, the union reps liked telling their members what great benefits they negotiated.

It’s too bad, but it’s not our problem. Government, BTW is still doing it. When some lame Democrat says we need to bail them out, tell them to fix the hole in the boat first.

Yeah, you see, that's a fascinating way to frame the question.

But of course it ignores a major part of the issue, I presume by design.

That issue of course being that people of advanced age who worked hard for the city for 30 years or so and who were honest and reasonable should suddenly find themselves with next to no healthcare or income.

Now, am I suggesting that the city should be bailed out? No.

Am I suggesting that simply framing the question in the manner you do is a totally fucked up position that ignores the lives of many people who worked hard for years? Yes.

Am I suggesting that there were no freeloaders who worked for the city and who are now enjoying the benefits of a comfortable retirement they never really earned? Not at all.

But seriously, wise the fuck up. If you're going to start a thread that implies an open question, at least frame the fucking question right.

 

[bripat9643]

Actually while I may lose social security when it runs out, my military retirement has to be paid, the Federal Government has an amendment to the Constitution that specifically states all pensions for the military must be paid.

There is no such Amendment. Only Congress and the American people can approve amendments to the Constitution. Yours isn't on the approved list.

 

[Darkwind]

echoing what Edgetho said to an extent, there was NO ONE at the table negotiating for the occupants of Detroit other then those that would feather their beds.....the unions and the politicians.....


Christie said it 2 years ago to the unions and he had it right, don't blame me, blame all those folks that promised you the moon....


They will have to go the federal route and break those contacts, there simply isn't enough money coming in and the poor bastards left in that tax base have been taxed to the statutory limits for years now....its f*cking over.

The feds have the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) , they won't wind up in there and get 20 cents on the dollar, but I bet they take at least a 25% haircut...

That is why Michigan was so important. It showed that there are some who are on the taxpayers side, and that the problem can be solved.

For Detroit, it is likely too late. Yet, there are lessons to be learned here.....if people open their eyes and see them in an honest light.

 

[blackhawk]

For those who understand why there is no such thing as a social security trust fund, this is going to scare the snot out of you. For those who believe in the fantasy land belief that government loaning itself money is an asset, nothing is going to get through to you anyway, so just have a cookie and smile. However, here is the reality.

All those years of negotiations between government workers at the local, State and Federal level, including and particularly teachers, the reality is that government never saved a dime to pay for it. Just like social security, all those retirements were simply promised against future taxpayer money. And like Social Security, IOUs from government to itself were written. My mother was a physical therapist for the Kalamazoo school system, and she’s learning now that there are no assets behind her pension as well.

Which is why those plans are so generous. The people who promised them didn’t pay for them, and they knew they’d be long gone before the bills came due. Guess what, they are coming due. It’s not just social security that was unfunded by our parents, it’s every one of those workers, who are now coming to us to make good on promises that were made with no money to back it up.

None of this information is new. All the contracts were negotiated and agreed to by the unions without any of the governments putting up dime one to fund them. And it was public information, no one wanted to think about it. So, who should be responsible for this?

- Workers who looked the other way and supported unions who negotiated the deals for them?

- Today’s taxpayer who wasn’t involved at all.

Yes, it’s too bad. But taxpayers should not be stuck with other people’s bills just because we feel sorry for them. The fact is they worked for employers and were promised pensions without anything being saved to cover them. Private sector pensions have minimum funding requirements. Government sector pensions have none. They were planning to stick us for the bill. The bureaucrats knew they’d be gone, the union reps liked telling their members what great benefits they negotiated.

It’s too bad, but it’s not our problem. Government, BTW is still doing it. When some lame Democrat says we need to bail them out, tell them to fix the hole in the boat first.

The city of Detroit is responsible they created the mess the responsibility of cleaning it up also theirs.

 

[kaz]

So, who should be responsible for this?

- Workers who looked the other way and supported unions who negotiated the deals for them?

- Today’s taxpayer who wasn’t involved at all.

Yes, it’s too bad. But taxpayers should not be stuck with other people’s bills just because we feel sorry for them.

That issue of course being that people of advanced age who worked hard for the city for 30 years or so and who were honest and reasonable should suddenly find themselves with next to no healthcare or income.

Now, am I suggesting that the city should be bailed out? No.

Am I suggesting that simply framing the question in the manner you do is a totally fucked up position that ignores the lives of many people who worked hard for years? Yes.

You said nothing. How is my framing of the question, "Fucked up?" Please explain.

I acknowledged the situation, and I asked who should be responsible for it. Why does the situation which I had nothing do do with creating mean that the bills are my problem?

You threw a rod, but didn't explain exactly what's wrong with what I said. So, why is it my problem to pay their bills when they were the ones who negotiated the deals, they were there, and I had zero to do with it?

 

[thereisnospoon]

For those who understand why there is no such thing as a social security trust fund, this is going to scare the snot out of you. For those who believe in the fantasy land belief that government loaning itself money is an asset, nothing is going to get through to you anyway, so just have a cookie and smile. However, here is the reality.

All those years of negotiations between government workers at the local, State and Federal level, including and particularly teachers, the reality is that government never saved a dime to pay for it. Just like social security, all those retirements were simply promised against future taxpayer money. And like Social Security, IOUs from government to itself were written. My mother was a physical therapist for the Kalamazoo school system, and she’s learning now that there are no assets behind her pension as well.

Which is why those plans are so generous. The people who promised them didn’t pay for them, and they knew they’d be long gone before the bills came due. Guess what, they are coming due. It’s not just social security that was unfunded by our parents, it’s every one of those workers, who are now coming to us to make good on promises that were made with no money to back it up.

None of this information is new. All the contracts were negotiated and agreed to by the unions without any of the governments putting up dime one to fund them. And it was public information, no one wanted to think about it. So, who should be responsible for this?

- Workers who looked the other way and supported unions who negotiated the deals for them?

- Today’s taxpayer who wasn’t involved at all.

Yes, it’s too bad. But taxpayers should not be stuck with other people’s bills just because we feel sorry for them. The fact is they worked for employers and were promised pensions without anything being saved to cover them. Private sector pensions have minimum funding requirements. Government sector pensions have none. They were planning to stick us for the bill. The bureaucrats knew they’d be gone, the union reps liked telling their members what great benefits they negotiated.

It’s too bad, but it’s not our problem. Government, BTW is still doing it. When some lame Democrat says we need to bail them out, tell them to fix the hole in the boat first.

Yeah, you see, that's a fascinating way to frame the question.

But of course it ignores a major part of the issue, I presume by design.

That issue of course being that people of advanced age who worked hard for the city for 30 years or so and who were honest and reasonable should suddenly find themselves with next to no healthcare or income.

Now, am I suggesting that the city should be bailed out? No.

Am I suggesting that simply framing the question in the manner you do is a totally fucked up position that ignores the lives of many people who worked hard for years? Yes.

Am I suggesting that there were no freeloaders who worked for the city and who are now enjoying the benefits of a comfortable retirement they never really earned? Not at all.

But seriously, wise the fuck up. If you're going to start a thread that implies an open question, at least frame the fucking question right.

HA HA...You skirt the real issue by picking apart the question. Brilliant.
Your post comes nowhere near addressing the reality of the issue.
And nowhere close to acknowledging the reality that unfortunately these people ate shit out of luck. The people to blame are in the past. The people of the present CANNOT and SHOULD not be held responsible or liable. The taxpayers of the present are not at fault. They should not pay. We're overtaxed now and there is NO MORE MONEY.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Irresponsibility should be painful. The people of Detroit should be the ones rebuilding their own city.

 

[thereisnospoon]

its apparent you haven't been listening to the news ...the governor Of Michigan is trying to take the money out of the unions retirement fund to pay for Detroits debt ... that's what the fuck we are talking about .... if you watched something other then FOX news for idiots, oh and by the way, the Union workers invest their retirement along with the companies investment ... so what you're saying here, just because you got fuck, because you voted for a republican and lost your ass in your retirement, you think everybody else should be stupid like you and vote for republicans so they too can lose their retirement ... thank god for whack jobs like you... you stick out like a sore thumb .... that's usually up your ass

The Michigan Governor is trying to take money from Union Pension funds to pay a City Debt?

What do you use for brains? Seriously.

This is what I mean about dimocraps... They just fucking lie about everything.

Can't have a conversation with them. You spend 90% of your time knocking down their bald-faced lies.now you know what is like talking to a republican if they aren't interupting you they try to shout over you

And then when you do prove that they're liars and idiots, you can expect them to start throwing their own feces at you like Monkeys in cage.can't stand it when you're out smarted can ya ... you haven't yet prove any one here as a liar but love to think you can...

Except the Monkeys are smarter. By a wide margin.

this is true ... monkeys are way smarter then any republican ever could be


what do you use for fucking brains ... their Pension funds does not belong to the state ... they belong to the workers ... where the hell do you get off thinking that every time a corporation or a state government gets into financial trouble that they get to take it from the workers Pension funds is beyond me ...

Apparently, there is much that is 'beyond you'.

 

[thereisnospoon]

you haven't changed one bit ... still stupid as ever ... you're telling us that if Detroit hires more teacher, police and firemen by doing this they will fail .... your telling us here that if Detroit give huge tax breaks to corporation to come to Detroit, that won't help ... what you're telling us if we increase the Tax base that Detroit will fail ... like I said you haven't changed one bit ... you're still stupid as ever, because, how did you say it DDD....Dumbass Democrat Detroit ... it wasn't the dems who sold out American ... it was the republicans and their damn deregulation plans that screw us big time ... it wasn't the dems in Detroit who deregulated the country, who allowed companies to be out sourced by the bills these republicans passed ... now you're trying to tell us that the state government dems are the problem that put them in the state they are in??? yep, you're still stupid as ever

No you stupid A-hole....what i'm telling you is Dumbass Democrats and their stupid leftist policies created the cesspool that is Detroit....

What did the Dumbass Democrats do for 50 fucking years.....after the last Republican left in 1961.....? i'll tell you....

first they elected a Dumbass Democrat named Jerome Cavanaugh as their new mayor....

Cavanaugh brought in his "Model City" program......this was a Soviet-style plan to transform areas of the city with the "rich" paying for it by increasing their income taxes and creating a new commuter tax.....get it?....more taxes choking the people and the government telling them how to run their businesses....

Dumbass Democrat Cavanaugh's Soviet-style "Model City" plan was a complete flop.....

But Dumbass Detroiters kept on electing Dumbass Democrats....

Dumbass Democrat Coleman Young was mayor from 1974 to 1993.....he was an actual member of the Communist Party....and of course he helped the downward spiral with his 'progressive' policies....over half the people in Detroit left........Coleman Young even defended his police chief who was convicted in 1992 of stealing 2.5 million from the city taxpayers....

then there was Dumbass Democrat Kwame Kilpatrick (2002-2008)......who was so corrupt that he pleaded guilty to two felonies and no contest to a third one....for rackateering, bribery, and tax charges...

all of these Dumbass Democrats and their Dumbass Democrat unions implemented their expensive 'progressive' policies.....complete with lavish salaries and benefit packages and giveaways to public service employees.....coupled with lax and inefficient work rules........this is what killed the proverbial 'golden goose'....and created the cesspool that is now Detroit....

here's one special example of their Dumbass 'progressive' policies and attitudes.....in 2003 a businessman/philanthropist named Robert Thompson offered $200 million to build 15 charter schools......but the 'progressive' teachers federation scuttled the deal....and the Detroit school system remains to this day a cesspool of failure...

Dumbass Democrats have had 50 fucking years to fix Detroit but their Dumbass Democrat policies are a total failure....

now it's time for a Republican to step in and try to fix things...but i'm sure the Dumbass Democrats like you will continue promoting your 'progressive' policies and fight Republican Governor Snyder tooth and nail.....as per usual....

it's time you A-holes look in the mirror and admit you're the fucking problem...

shiney objects thats all you republicans do ... so brightpath, your new screen name, cause ScreamingEagle isn't working for ya ... how do you fix something that wasn't broke in the first place for 50 years ... until the republicans(RONALD REAGAN) got in control of the country, tell us that one brightpath ... the governor hasn't any right to take retirement funds just because he hasn't been able to run his state ... all he does is cut, cut, cut, then cries there's no money to pay for our debt ... then he tries to raid the employee retirement fund for his bad leadership .... he tries to tell us all were failing because the unions is the problem ...just because he cut the hell out of gubment ... take the states income away and you can't pay for shit ... guess what brightpath, he can't pay for shit ... why he took away the states income ... with all of his cutting of gubment spending he's still in debt ... that's what you get when a republican tries to lead ... huge debts and peoploe out of work they prove it all by their little selves each and every day when in office

You union thugs just cannot help taking shots at Reagan. It's all you've got. You blame Reagan for the downfall of unionism in the US. Shit. Union membership peaked in the mid 60's and membership has been in decline ever since. If anything Reagan exposed the union movement for what it was. Greedy and averse to modernizing its business model. The movement also exposed itself in the public sector as the cause of skyrocketing property and income taxes of residents who for their money got NOTHING in return.
Unionism ruined itself.
And now this. Detroit has nothing to fill pension coffers and the desperate are reaching out with their greedy grubby little paws with tears in their eyes saying "what are these people supposed to do?'..Here's the answer,they may seek redress in the courts against those responsible instead of coming up with some creative way to tax those who have no involvement in the corruption and theft committed by politicians of the past.
Now, if there is nothing else...

 

[thereisnospoon]

the Stuttering Clusterfukk CAN'T bail out Dee-Troit.

If he does, there will be about 400 other Cities that want a bail out.

He can't set a precedent for something that stupid.

Just another lie. From just another liar.

Remember when he promised he wouldn't let Dee-Troit fail in the 2012 campaign? A few short Months ago?

He lied. He had no vision of ever keeping that promise.

But that's what dimocraps do... They lie.

It's one thing to make a mistake. We all do that.

It's another to change your stance. Some of us do that every few years.

It's quite another to look someone in the eye and tell a bald-faced fucking lie by making a promise you have NO INTENTION of keeping.

That's what dimocrap scum are famous for.

It's somewhere around lie, number 1,736 for him. That's a lot. Even for the scum of the Earth; dimocraps

Where you from?

I lived outside of Cleveland for several years, the Army for 5-1/2 years, back to Cleveland for a couple years. Said 'Fuck this place' and been in SW Florida for the last 36 years.

While owning and manning an Insurance Agency, I got time to read and learn -- you got some down-time once in a while, then it goes from slow to insane in micro-seconds.

Once we went to Computers and a couple years later the internet came around, I had time to cruise the 'net.

I also met and talked to people from every single State in this Country and from dozens of Countries of the World.

EVERY body wants to move Florida at some point in their lives. Some do. Most of the ones that are still working age fail and have to go back home to Mommy and Daddy. Florida ain't an easy place to make a living if you don't have a skill. Not a lot of unskilled labor in Florida. No manufacturing.

I also met a lot of people who were still working age and were still working UP NORTH.

The smart ones? They'd buy their place down here and pay for it while they were working up North. Some times they'd rent it out, too. That kinda came to a screeching halt around 2007. Hurt a lot of people.

Still a smart move and it's coming back quite a bit

If you live in the armpit of the Universe..... New Yawk, Chi-town, Dee-Troit, Cleveland, Joisey, etc. And the thought of living out your final, retirement years there makes you want to kill yourself, it's still not a bad idea to buy a place now; while you can afford to make the payments.

Then, when you retire, you got something to look forward to. Florida. Beats the hell out of...

Anyway. I talk a lot and most people like talking to me. There's always the exception, but most people enjoyed talking to me and I'm pretty inquisitive.

I learned a lot. Really a lot from other people.

I seldom opine on things I know nothing about. If I do jump in, it's usually to ask a question.

dimocraps? All they do is offer opinions. And they're virtually always on something they know nothing about.

Which is -- Just about everything, really

We agree politically. Geographically, I think you have a screw loose.
I hate Florida. It's hot, there's too many bugs, too many cranky yankees, too much crime, no hills, the humidity is unbearable. I cannot stand 'beach rednecks'..Those barefooted, hyper tattooed wife beater cutoff jeans wearing smelly fucks that think Busch Light is a breakfast drink. And that's just the women. These are the people that use dish washing liquid to 'bathe' in the spring fed lagoons.
Yep, Florida. The Sunshine State. You are welcome to it.