Why I Could Never Be GOP or Libertarian

[ThinkCritically]

I can never be a liberal progressive because I am far too intelligent to live in a fantasy world. I work hard, I play hard, I earn everything I have and I don't expect a handout from anybody.

If I thought we could really put together a good system, I'd be all for it.

But they inevitably get warped and abused. They always have and always will. Just look at the political process.

Fantasy world is right.....progressives don't have a freaking clue.

What the big government LIbs forget is that "absolute power corrupts absolutely".

 

[dblack]

What the big government LIbs forget is that "absolute power corrupts absolutely".

Big government Cons have exactly the same problem.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Big government Cons have exactly the same problem.

That they do.

So clearly the way to fight the corruption is to promote he who will expand government least. Big government is too rich a prize not to corrupt. If we would have honest and just government, we must contain and reduce the power of government to dole favors and lucre from the public treasury to the well connected.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Why I could never vote GOP:

Acute lack of intellectual capacity and -complete- absence of intellectual honesty.

What is this election about?
It is about whether we value social safety nets or social Darwinism.

You apparently do not understand what 'social Darwinisn' means.

It is about how the government collects and spends money and whether those activities are ruled by a spirit of fairness or disproportionately favor the most well off.

More accurately, it is about oppoing liberals as they seek to use govrnment to impose thir version of morality on everyone in an effort to buy as many votes as possible.

It is about whether rhetoric criticizing the size and influence of government ends where individuals’ bodies begin. Whether you believe, as I do, that all liberty begins with personal liberty

Except when people want to exercise a liberty that you do not like.

That none of us has the right to impose our beliefs and values on others.

Even thought that is exactly what you seek to do - see above.

This is about each of us being able to love, and marry, whomever we chose.

Your secular messiah opposes this.

This is about women having unfettered and unfiltered access to a full range of reproductive options,

They have that now.
Except, of course, the instances where Roe v Wade, et al, allow the states to say otherwise.

This is about how we prioritize and provide direction and incentives for our educational system so that we produce citizens who are well equipped to compete in a tightening global job market.

If you knew anything about K-12 education, you'd understand why this makes me laugh at you -- the vast majority of the current deficiencies with our edcation system are direclty related to people who "think" like you do.

This is about the judges the winner of the election would nominate, particularly to the Supreme Court, and how those nominations might balance or further skew the justice system.

"balance or further skew"?
Conservative majority = skewed?
Liberal majority = balanced?

This is about war philosophies: how easily a president is willing to commit troops to war, how he might execute a war once it commences and how willing he is to end it.

One word: Libya

 

[dblack]

So clearly the way to fight the corruption is to promote he who will expand government least. Big government is too rich a prize not to corrupt. If we would have honest and just government, we must contain and reduce the power of government to dole favors and lucre from the public treasury to the well connected.

Totally agree.

 

[thereisnospoon]

So is Mitt but he aint writing it. Everyone needs to sacrafice, not just you and I. Their doing better than ever. Stop worrying about them and I'll stop worrying about union workers. Ok?

Who said anything about Romney?
Look genius...The federal government does not have a revenue problem. It has a spending problem.
This "fairness" agenda dredged up by Obama and other liberals is a political ploy to solidify Obama's voting base.
The fact is the top 25% of wage earners pay 80% of the federal tax burden.
The fact the so called "wealthy" do not pay the mythical "fair share" is a pile stinking pile of dog shit.
Best thing to ever happen is that most Americans are not buying your sides ultra whine about taxes and (sniffle sniffle) fairness.
What is really laughable is not a single one of you lefties can define that fair or fairness is.
Nor do you dare define it. Doing that would force you to live by your decision.
BTW....who the fuck said anything about union workers? All 7% of the US Workforce..
Oh, you'd better not go there. Union wages leave none of those people starving for sure. Especially the union bosses who make 6 figures.

You complain that we envy the people making over 1 million dollars a year but you are jealous of the union workers making 6 figures? Don't you realize they brought up all our wages?

What is fair? Roll back the Bush tax cuts. That would be fair. Some of us say roll back the Reagan tax cuts too. Here is the liberal justification for it since you want to know what we think is fair:

Roll Back the Reagan Tax Cuts | Common Dreams

But I'm sure you won't be able to grasp any of it.

Typical knee jerk response from someone who sees but does not read.
Hey nudnick...Where did I indicate I was "jealous" of anyone?
I merely made a statement of fact. A fact people like YOU cannot discuss because it blows up your "wealthy" template.
No DEFINE "fair"...Or "Fairness"...
BTW, since you opened the door. What is unfair or as I like to say unjust about people getting to keep more of what THEY earned?
Your premise presupposes the notion that all wealth belongs to government for their pleasure. Bullshit. It is OUR money. Not theirs.. And my earnings are MINE . Not yours.
We pay our taxes based on the belief that those we elect will be good stewards of our money. Such is not the case.
Taxation works as long as those who are held responsible for our money act responsibly. At this time, they most certainly do not. Feature THAT.
Now.....The only reply I want from you is to define "fair" in the context of this discussion. Do not post the dictionary definition. That will not be accepted as a legitimate response.
You people rest on the laurels of "fairness"...You have the guts to define the term.
Oh...One other thing....Unions have precisely DICK to do with the wage I earn.. I am paid based on my skills, qualifications and work ethic.
"Common dreams"? Yeah sure. That is the precursor to socialist utopia.
If you want that, move to a socialist country where government is your mommy and daddy.
You greedy shills think all wealth should be distributed by government.
From each according to his means. To each according to his needs.
Yeah, that worked really well. Stow it juniorette.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Us Democrats want to help the rich out. We don't want them paying 80% of the federal tax burden. We use to pay much more before you sent all our jobs overseas. Do you understand that? The rich have all the money so who gives a fuck that they pay 80%. If they give their employees a raise they will start paying more taxes and if the CEO takes a pay cut he will start paying less taxes. Win win.

"I" sent jobs overseas? Hmm. So business owners are all conservatives and all conservatives are business owners?...Really cookie?
Ya know what? You are a laugh per minute.
"If they just would giver their workers a raise..." Oh please..Do you want some cheese to go with that whine?
What various people earn has no correlation to taxation. This whole idea of the one percent and the rich getting richer is a bunch of populist, progressive Occupy Wall Street hogwash. The fact that the guy across town lives in a larger home than I makes no difference nor does is have any bearing on what I am doing.
The fact is long ago every parent raised their children with the idea that their child could one day own the business. They would take a knee next to their child and tell them "if you work hard, stay in school and learn a skill one day you could become what that person over there is today"...Now liberal parents teach their kids to despise the business owner. To hate the wealthy. They now tell their kids, "you see that man over there in the expensive car? If he would just give his workers a raise instead of buying that big car, we could live in a big house too. But he is greedy. We hate him because he has done well for himself".....That latter is YOU.....Jealous, angry and full of hate for the successful and the achievers.

George Carlin was right.

"Now, there's one thing you might have noticed I don't complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here... like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks.

SO it is your cynicism and defeatism that drives you to envy what others have.
I also bet you straight ticket vote democrat too.
Look you hypocritical out of work hairdresser. Don't pretend to be outside the system when you are part of the system.
It is you who have the problem. You have zero faith in your fellow human beings to think for themselves or achieve for themselves. You believe the greatness of this country lies within government. WRONG. The people of this country are the greatness.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I don't really think the problem is with parties, per se, but values.

I can't stand how people have to act like they hate each other when in the real world, we just make things run.

I like the idea of smaller, more efficient government. You can love him or hate him, but Jimmy Carter streamlined gov't in many good ways. It was one of his signature achievements in a presidency that went down the shitter.

I "get" the beef with things like the bloated education budget. America isn't better off because she ended up spending more on education these last few decades, in fact she's slipped down to about #37 or so.

Surely we can look at education, make improvements, and do a little trimming of that budget. And defense, too.

And phasing out corporate welfare over the next decade, that would be a conservative thing to do and we could find half a trillion there over 10 years.

A person like me has been pushed out of the GOP these days. I've had to deal with a decade of rhetoric without action, platitudes without common sense policies put into law.

I have a personal interest in health care with various family members involved in health care, and I'm convinced that a good food policy will cure our country's food insecurity problem with over 20 million hungry children, and it'll save us money in the long run on health care when we finally get transfats and sugars and carbs and other garbage out of the food we subsidize for young people already. America's obesity problem will be cured when we've got young people eating healthy snacks at day care and schools instead of pop and chips and other fried food.

If millions of kids in this country are eating well, they'll concentrate at school, test scores will go up, obesity will be cured because it's caused right now by people eating all the wrong crap, not because people are eating too much.

I find that to be a conservative policy. If we fund better lunches, we save tons of health care dollars and more kids pay better attention. America already almost cured hunger by the late 70's, but then we started to cut food stamps and other things these last 30 years and it has sent the obesity numbers through the roof while education scores have fallen. It was the Nixon administration that deserves the most credit on the hunger issue. They listened to the specialists, enacted a good policy, and funded it. By the end of the 70's, going into the Reagan administration, there were only a few hundred food banks in America.

When we started to leave food to charity and started cutting food stamps, we saw an explosion of tens of thousands of food banks.

I think if any party were to start talking common sense again and go back to things that worked instead of just hating gov't for the sake of hating gov't, there would be reasons to vote for the GOP again.

I'm not sure where the GOP is on policies these days. I see that they don't like much of anything, but you can only win the general on what you want to do, not what you don't want to do.

We don't need a "good food policy"...Parents must take responsibility for their offspring.
Today's parents have no patience with their kids. They plant them in front of the tv or computer so that the parent is not "bothered"...When the kid screams, they stuff their little mugs with treats. They cannot say "no" to their kids.
We have this moronic and destructive idea of "self esteem".
Back to your original point.
The problem with government is this....Elected officials are politicians. What is needed are "Statesmen"...
This is a very poignant line from the movie ""The Hunt for Red October"....
Audio....
I'm A Politician Sound Clip and Quote

 

[dblack]

We don't need a "good food policy"...

You don't understand. All that we are as a people is defined by government policy.

Duh.

 

[ilia25]

The median incime in 2008 was 14.65% higher than in 1979. That's "stagnant"?

And the real GDP per capita grew by 68%. It means if it were not for increasing inequality, the median incomes would grow 4-5 times faster.

Only if median income would "normally" be tied/related to GDP growth.
Show this to be true.

GDP per capita growth more or less equals average income growth. The only reason median income would lag behind the average income is growing inequality.

There were times in history of the US when median incomes were growing faster than GDP because inequality was decreasing (decades after the WWII).

 

[ilia25]

So you acknowledge that ALL are better off, but since some did even better than you, you're consumed by envy, rage, and greed?

I wasn't talking about me, you idiot. It was 90% of Americans who saw their income growth lagging because a disproportionaly large chunk of additional GDP ended up in the hands of the richest.

Compare the 'additional GDP' that ended up on the hands of the richest and the investments made by the richest that created that GDP growth.

You don't need to be rich to invest. Savings made by relatively poor people are invested just the same.

 

[sealybobo]

"I" sent jobs overseas? Hmm. So business owners are all conservatives and all conservatives are business owners?...Really cookie?
Ya know what? You are a laugh per minute.
"If they just would giver their workers a raise..." Oh please..Do you want some cheese to go with that whine?
What various people earn has no correlation to taxation. This whole idea of the one percent and the rich getting richer is a bunch of populist, progressive Occupy Wall Street hogwash. The fact that the guy across town lives in a larger home than I makes no difference nor does is have any bearing on what I am doing.
The fact is long ago every parent raised their children with the idea that their child could one day own the business. They would take a knee next to their child and tell them "if you work hard, stay in school and learn a skill one day you could become what that person over there is today"...Now liberal parents teach their kids to despise the business owner. To hate the wealthy. They now tell their kids, "you see that man over there in the expensive car? If he would just give his workers a raise instead of buying that big car, we could live in a big house too. But he is greedy. We hate him because he has done well for himself".....That latter is YOU.....Jealous, angry and full of hate for the successful and the achievers.

George Carlin was right.

"Now, there's one thing you might have noticed I don't complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here... like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks.

SO it is your cynicism and defeatism that drives you to envy what others have.
I also bet you straight ticket vote democrat too.
Look you hypocritical out of work hairdresser. Don't pretend to be outside the system when you are part of the system.
It is you who have the problem. You have zero faith in your fellow human beings to think for themselves or achieve for themselves. You believe the greatness of this country lies within government. WRONG. The people of this country are the greatness.

You Republicans refuse to believe that a good uncorrupted government can improve your lives just like a bad one can negatively affect your standard of living. The GOP is bad government, period. They don't just say government is bad, they prove it.

 

[sealybobo]

Not all overheated political rhetoric is alike. Delusional right-wing crazy talk — the kind of ranting we’ve heard recently from washed-up rock star Ted Nugent and Tea Party-backed Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.) — is a special kind of poison that cannot be safely ignored.

The extreme language we hear from the far right is much different from the extreme language we hear from the far left — and far more damaging to the ties that bind us as a nation.

Nugent promise that “if Barack Obama becomes the president in November again, I will either be dead or in jail by this time next year.”

At a town hall meeting last week in Palm City, Fla., West was asked how many Marxists there are in Congress. He replied, “I believe there’s about 78 to 81 members of the Democratic Party who are members of the Communist Party.” That is, of course, a bald-faced lie. There are no communists in Congress.

Republican rhetoric that damages the nation - The Washington Post

 

[dblack]

You Republicans refuse to believe that a good uncorrupted government can improve your lives just like a bad one can negatively affect your standard of living..

I'm not sure that's true. I don't speak for Republicans, but most folks speaking up for limited government recognize that government can be used to 'improve our lives' a great deal. We just don't think it should be. The idea that government should be used for that purpose is problematic because we all have different ideas about what it means to improve our lives. It makes more sense to me to use government to protect our freedom to improve our own lives.

 

[thereisnospoon]

And the real GDP per capita grew by 68%. It means if it were not for increasing inequality, the median incomes would grow 4-5 times faster.

Only if median income would "normally" be tied/related to GDP growth.
Show this to be true.

GDP per capita growth more or less equals average income growth. The only reason median income would lag behind the average income is growing inequality.

There were times in history of the US when median incomes were growing faster than GDP because inequality was decreasing (decades after the WWII).

What is it with you libs and this notion of "equality"...Newsflash. We are NOT equal. The only advancement of equality is under the law. That is a guarantee under the US Constitution.
There are the intelligent and the opposite. There are fit and there are the unhealthy.
There are those who make good decisions and those who make poor decisions.
There are those with high earning potential and those with limited income potential.
It is what it is. No amount of hand wringing or social engineering is going to change that.
Communism/Marxism and other social experiments attempted to disprove these facts.
These systems are abject failures. End of story.

 

[thereisnospoon]

George Carlin was right.

"Now, there's one thing you might have noticed I don't complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here... like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks.

SO it is your cynicism and defeatism that drives you to envy what others have.
I also bet you straight ticket vote democrat too.
Look you hypocritical out of work hairdresser. Don't pretend to be outside the system when you are part of the system.
It is you who have the problem. You have zero faith in your fellow human beings to think for themselves or achieve for themselves. You believe the greatness of this country lies within government. WRONG. The people of this country are the greatness.

You Republicans refuse to believe that a good uncorrupted government can improve your lives just like a bad one can negatively affect your standard of living. The GOP is bad government, period. They don't just say government is bad, they prove it.

"The GOP is bad government"....Care to explain what the hell that is supposed to mean?
That statement makes no sense.
First off...I am not a "republican" I have no party affiliation. We are conservatives. That for those of you in the lower brackets on the IQ scale is what is known as an "ideology".

There is nothing wrong with "uncorrupted government"..Do you prefer "corrupted( no such word) government"?....There is no such word as "uncorrupted"..The antonyms of corrupt would be..decent, honest, honorable, principled, pure, trustworthy, truthful, uncorrupt, upright .
Check back when you gain at least a rudimentary command of the English language

 

[thereisnospoon]

Not all overheated political rhetoric is alike. Delusional right-wing crazy talk — the kind of ranting we’ve heard recently from washed-up rock star Ted Nugent and Tea Party-backed Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.) — is a special kind of poison that cannot be safely ignored. Not to mention Sarah Palin.

The extreme language we hear from the far right is much different from the extreme language we hear from the far left — and far more damaging to the ties that bind us as a nation.

Nugent promise that “if Barack Obama becomes the president in November again, I will either be dead or in jail by this time next year.”

Nugent compared the Obama administration to a bunch of “coyotes in your living room” who deserve to be shot. Nugent ended by exhorting his listeners: “We are Braveheart. We need to ride into that battlefield and chop their heads off in November. any questions?”

No, I think he made himself quite clear.

Vile? Evil? America-hating? Nugent doesn’t just characterize those with different political views as misguided or wrong. He seeks to paint them as alien and anti-American — as enemies of this nation, rather than citizens with whom he disagrees. In a subsequent interview, Nugent called Nancy Pelosi a “sub-human scoundrel” and referred to liberals as cockroaches to “stomp” in November.

This is what distinguishes the flame-throwers of the far right from those of the far left. Nugent and his ilk seek to deny their political opponents the very right to believe in a different philosophy. Agree with me, he says, or be stomped.

It would be one thing if this sort of vicious intolerance came only from aging rockers whose brains may have been scrambled by all those high-decibel performances. But it comes, too, from an elected member of the House of Representatives.

At a town hall meeting last week in Palm City, Fla., West was asked how many Marxists there are in Congress. He replied, “I believe there’s about 78 to 81 members of the Democratic Party who are members of the Communist Party.” That is, of course, a bald-faced lie. There are no communists in Congress.

West can’t really believe this nonsense. What he’s trying to do is delegitimize the entire stream of progressive thought that has run wide and deep through American history since the nation’s founding. Disagree with his views, West insists, and you’re not just a political opponent, you’re a godless Marxist.

Republicans have been doing this for decades. Brainwashing.

There is no symmetry here. The far left may hurl insults at the right but doesn’t scream “fascism” whenever a Republican proposes privatizing Medicare.

Does Romney agree with Ted and Mr. Keys? Does Boehner? Do you?

Republican rhetoric that damages the nation - The Washington Post

Hello pot...This is kettle...Guess what? You're black.
Cut the shit Boo Boo...Both ideologies have their fringe.
Please spare me the brainwashing bullshit. Liberals have a practical monopoly on indoctrination in higher education. This has trickled down via the teachers of our children who with their liberal bias, are busily indoctrinating our kids to liberalism.
All the nonsense we see in public schools. Political correctness, the shunning of any mention of Christianity while other religious are studied or even celebrated. The introduction and subsequent failure of outcome based education. The Dumbing down of educational standards. Banning competitive aspects of studies. Some school districts have eliminated grades for fear of offending poor students. Self esteem...(UGH!!!!)..The banning of critical thinking and replacing it with memorization and regurgitation in order to prepare kids for standardized tests.
Now you have the gall to post a link ot an opinion piece in attempt to pass it off as fact.
Look genius, just because some scribe who is ill equipped to report hard news decides to spew his opinion, you accept it as the gospel and expect us to follow along.
LOSER!!!!

 

[americahater]

america plc strikes again, your all slaves to your morally bankrupt country anyway go labour in silence for the great capitalist "job creators"

 

[thereisnospoon]

america plc strikes again, your all slaves to your morally bankrupt country anyway go labour in silence for the great capitalist "job creators"

Your post does not even rise to the level of juvenile.
You go the ignore list.

 

[sealybobo]

You Republicans refuse to believe that a good uncorrupted government can improve your lives just like a bad one can negatively affect your standard of living..

I'm not sure that's true. I don't speak for Republicans, but most folks speaking up for limited government recognize that government can be used to 'improve our lives' a great deal. We just don't think it should be. The idea that government should be used for that purpose is problematic because we all have different ideas about what it means to improve our lives. It makes more sense to me to use government to protect our freedom to improve our own lives.

We as a society ageed long ago that social security and medicare improve the vast majority of Americans lives. If you disagree, you are in the minority.

And oil companies should be regulated by our government. If not, $4 gas. And rich people should be paying their fair share. If our government doesn't raise their taxes, they shift the tax burden more on us. They can improve our lives by making the rich pay their fair share.

And we want single payer universal healthcare. In other words, let us buy into what Seniors and Politicians have. If its good enough for them, its good enough for us. Have it to compete against the healthcare monopolies. You think governments should stay out of it and let the oil companies gouge us and let the corporations send all our manufacturing jobs overseas? Just stand by and watch?

We think that insurance companies should cover pre existing conditions. Your government just improved your life by making that mandatory.

If our government doesn't insist, the corporations don't give.

You don't think it is government's job to improve our lives? Ok

Good schools, roads, bridges, teachers, police and firefighters make a decent living, medicare, medicaid, welfare, foodstamps, social security, a post office, parks and recreation, planned parenthood, scholarships for poor kids, regulate corporations from polluting in our lakes, rivers, streams, investing in vaccine research and alternative energy, space exploration, regulating trade so the American workers aren't pitted against Chinese, mexican and Indian labor, passing a minimum wage, labor laws, legalizing unions, civil rights laws,

I know a Republican who hates Planned Parenthood because he's pro life and he doesn't care how much it helps single mothers. But then he tells me about the scholarship his single mother got to send him to a private catholic school. He benefitted from the very programs that he now wants to cut. Selfish asshole.

Fact is, the Bush tax cuts were never supposed to be permenant. Do you understand that? If that is true, why are they crying that they are about to expire? Do you remember when they passed the Bush tax cuts? You got $500 and Romney got $500K? They were supposed to work. That was the argument for passing them. They didn't work. Strike two on the Bush tax breaks. We're broke. Strike 3.