Why Stories of Jesus Became More Magical Over Time

[Vandalshandle]

While I am not a Mormon, and dismiss their entire dogma as totally absurd, they claim to be Christians, and even accept the entire Old and New Testament. If one were to accept that the New Testament replaced the Law of the Old testament, then I think that Christians have a shakier claim on being the true branch of judo-Christian teachings than Mormons do. At least they have not dismissed the New Testament the way the Christians dismiss the old Testament. As for the polytheism argument, I don't think that the Mormon version is all that much sillier than the Christian Church, who argued among themselves for hundreds of years as to how they could remain monotheist, if the Bible teaches that there is a God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. It took them hundreds of years to declare, "Well, they are three, all rolled in to one, which makes us monotheists". Frankly, that kind of logic would not be used in a more pragmatic world, like a court of law. It is more than a leap of faith. It is a leap of common sense. In fact, the entire concept of monotheism is a Jewish invention. Frankly, if the New Testament throws out the Old, I think that it would have made more sense to just declare that monotheism no longer applies, kind of like when the Mormons had a revelation from god that monogamy was now god's wishes, just coincidentally being the requirement for US statehood.

 

[hobelim]

I'm not a christian, I'm just pointing out that you spread hate on a day you know is holy to most, b/c hate is all you are

I suppose it must be easier to accuse guno of hate than it is to even try and resolve the valid points that he makes that precludes the possibility that the stories about the birth of Jesus are the literal truth.

Its not like there is no reason to suspect the stories may have been altered, exaggerated, or are allegorical given well known scientific facts about the realities of biological reproduction that every Christian knows by the age of 12... unless they have been deprived of an education..

What difference does it make if Jesus came into the world in the usual way? So what if God never actually became a human being? Is it really easier to believe that Jesus had no human father than it is to to believe that the stories were edited by rome and the teachings of Jesus were buried under a mountain of blasphemy upon which the roman church was built and all other denominations branched out from?

They should thank him for even trying to wake them up from their dreamworld.

 

[Avatar4321]

and in another thread you hateful leftist will say there's no war on Christmas

you're ability to lie on the same message board and pretend you don't is just astounding.

How is asking a question about what is a pretty preposterous story constitute a "War" on it.

We are asking a question. How likely is it that the whole "Virgin Birth" thing actually happened? Or the whole "Slaughter of all the Babies" that no other historical account mentions, not even the other three Gospels? Or the nuttiness of a star being able to point out a specific house? (Stars are quadrillions of miles away!)

b/c you scum only really care during Christmas

when people are trying to be joyful, you filth bring the hate

hate is all you have, and it pisses you off that no amount of hate is going to destroy Christmas

you chose to be here on this thread on your "holy day", no one forced you. for some of us knowing the roots or any religion is interesting, wherever it leads

if you was interested knowing the roots of religions you would think you'd get them more accurate

 

[Avatar4321]

"In Hebrews it very clearly state that the old covenant is obsolete and has been replaced by the new Covenant."

And yet, no Jewish scripture agrees with the New Testament. So, why would one put credence of one faith over another...especially since the entire Christian faith was just a Johnny-come-lately off branch of Judaism? The second part of that question is, if Christianity trumps Judaism, because of new revelations from god, would not the same argument favor the Mormon Church over other branches of Christianity??

who says it doesn't? Mormonism is the restoration of the Christian church. The Church Christ organized was given authority and power from God. People turned away from it but God restored it to prepare the world for His return.

can people have authority from God when they deny that He reveals Himself to man when the bible teaches that He revealed His will and scripture according to His pleasure?

the invitation is the same today as it was in Christ's. Exercise faith in Christ unto repentance and be baptized for the remission of sins and that you can receive the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. Thus is the doctrine of Christ

 

[JoeB131]

Haha, lets make fun of his typo and ignore the next sentence and the rest of what he is saying and play dumb.

You are just proving the prior point I have made, that most atheists, not all, are clever sillies. You are being intentionally obtuse and ignoring the rest of the post due to a typo.

You refuse to address a list of obvious cruelties by God in the same post.... so you really can't complain about a lack of substantive answers if you don't give them yourself.

 

[JoeB131]

who says it doesn't? Mormonism is the restoration of the Christian church. The Church Christ organized was given authority and power from God. People turned away from it but God restored it to prepare the world for His return.

Well, sorry, I know that you have decades of LDS Brainwashing to overcome, but doesn't that make your God a little silly? He comes down to Earth, does the whole drama queen act of getting crucified, western civilization STILL Manages to get it wrong for 1850 years, until a two-bit con artist from New York comes along and "restores" it?

And if restoring it was such a big priority, don't you think that

can people have authority from God when they deny that He reveals Himself to man when the bible teaches that He revealed His will and scripture according to His pleasure?

the invitation is the same today as it was in Christ's. Exercise faith in Christ unto repentance and be baptized for the remission of sins and that you can receive the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. Thus is the doctrine of Christ

Well, that's all nice and everything, but how would you know you are even going to the right church? And what about all the Hindus and Buddhists and dare I say it, even Muslims who are perfectly nice people who just don't think Jesus was God?

 

[Steinlight]

No one says you have to worship God, but by doing so, you reduce yourself to a base level animal(which you have admitted on a public forum with your goony proclivities) with no rights. So fine, there is no God. That means you have no rights and are a mere pawn of the state. There is no right and wrong, and you are a random amalgamation of material drifting aimlessly through the universe watching porn and Dr. Who until you die. Wow, what an amazing life, not.

You really are all over the place with your beliefs.

No one says you have to worship God, but by doing so, you reduce yourself to a base level animal(which you have admitted on a public forum with your goony proclivities) with no rights.

I'm not a christian but I would never say anything so nasty about most of them.

Haha, lets make fun of his typo and ignore the next sentence and the rest of what he is saying and play dumb.

You are just proving the prior point I have made, that most atheists, not all, are clever sillies. You are being intentionally obtuse and ignoring the rest of the post due to a typo.

The point is, without a creator, man is just another base level animal, with no more intrinsic worth than any other form of life in the objective sense. It is God in Genesis that gives us dominion over all creation.

You don't think that it is a tiny bit arrogant that the Bible teaches that we are created in god's image?

I wonder where god got his navel? I'm pretty sure where I got mine....

No, it isn't arrogant if you understand what is meant by saying that.

I think what's arrogant is a christian dismissing the OT when Paul, the inventor of christianity, co-opted the Hebrew Scriptures in the formulation of the religion he created.

Wow, you are bitter.

Are you Jewish by chance?

 

[GreenBean]

and in another thread you hateful leftist will say there's no war on Christmas

you're ability to lie on the same message board and pretend you don't is just astounding.

How is asking a question about what is a pretty preposterous story constitute a "War" on it.

We are asking a question. How likely is it that the whole "Virgin Birth" thing actually happened? Or the whole "Slaughter of all the Babies" that no other historical account mentions, not even the other three Gospels? Or the nuttiness of a star being able to point out a specific house? (Stars are quadrillions of miles away!)

b/c you scum only really care during Christmas

when people are trying to be joyful, you filth bring the hate

hate is all you have, and it pisses you off that no amount of hate is going to destroy Christmas

you chose to be here on this thread on your "holy day", no one forced you. for some of us knowing the roots or any religion is interesting, wherever it leads

I'm not a christian, I'm just pointing out that you spread hate on a day you know is holy to most, b/c hate is all you are

THIS IS TRUE ... JoeB is a rabid hater - he once bragged about trying to bash a Nuns head open against a wall , and rejoiced at the fact that PolPot executed all the priests he could find in Cambodia - He's a rabid little puppy

 

[JoeB131]

Well some people don't feel murder is wrong at all, and feel no remorse when they kill, so there goes your theory that everyone FEELS murder is wrong. Without a God, there is no right or wrong, and whether one chooses to murder or not is a preference based on their personal feelings.

This is horseshit. GUy, I hate to break this to you, but the worship of Yahweh has only been about for 3000 years, and Jesus less than 2000. People knew murder was wrong before God was invented.

Fact is, there have been a lot of sociopaths who believed in your sky pixie, and they are just as bad as the ones
who didn't.

Without a universal arbiter of justice, there is no right and wrong in the eternal sense, just what you get away with and what you don't get away with on earth. And in the end "good or bad", everyone dies the same death anyways. In the end, with no God, whether one is Stalin or Mother Theresa, they both die, and in the eternal sense, their life is a wash. That is rather bleak to me. It may very well be true, but it is a rather dreary prospect, and I don't revel in it like you. I think this is mostly because you haven't thought out the dark and nihilistic consequences of Atheism.

So you believe in God because it makes you feel better about your mortality, not because you have any objective truth. Now besides the fact I think "Mother" Teresa gets too much credit. (Sorry, just watching people die of terrible diseases in a shitty hospital doesn't make you a "Saint".) Whether or not Atheism is nihlistic or not is sort of irrelevent. Either there is a God or their isn't. If there is, you should be able to present objective proof before you ask me to mold my life around "his" rules. If there isn't, then I probably should be able to figure out on my own right and wrong.

I am not a Jew. As Christians, we aren't bound by Old Testament law and the Mosaic Covenant. When Christ came, a new Covenant was formed and old one was absolved. These laws reflect the standard legal codes of the Bronze Age, which were generally strict in this way. the laws were harsh for a debased and sinful people. They were for that place and time, and have been since replaced when Jesus came with the new Covenant.

That's a nice rationalization that doesn't fly. The reason why Christianity abanoned the Mosiac law was even the Judeans weren't following it that much by the First Century. Nor did your "New Covenant" get rid of silly rules like "Thou shall not suffer a Witch To Live" - we kept burning those ladies right up until the 17th century.

 

[JoeB131]

THIS IS TRUE ... JoeB is a rabid hater - he once bragged about trying to bash a Nuns head open against a wall , and rejoiced at the fact that PolPot executed all the priests he could find in Cambodia - He's a rabid little puppy

Wow, back from your "absense" and lying already?

 

[GreenBean]

THIS IS TRUE ... JoeB is a rabid hater - he once bragged about trying to bash a Nuns head open against a wall , and rejoiced at the fact that PolPot executed all the priests he could find in Cambodia - He's a rabid little puppy

Wow, back from your "absense" and lying already?

Wow, back from your "absense"

Yup - I have returned.... my busy season ended -the reindeer are all sound asleep,I brushed the chimney soot off my trousers and I'm here to bitch smack you again - see you soon Joey Boy

...and lying already?

I shant waste any time digging up the old posts - you know it's true - that's all that matters

 

[GreenBean]

sociopaths who believed in your sky pixie

"if you seek the Kingdom of God in the sky then the birds will precede you. And if you seek it in the sea, then the fish will precede you, but the Kingdom is in you. And if you know yourself then you know the Kingdom of God." Gospel of Thomas The Story Of The Storytellers - The Gospel Of Thomas From Jesus To Christ FRONTLINE PBS

Your knowledge of Christian Gnosticism and origins appears to be quite shallow

 

[Steinlight]

While I am not a Mormon, and dismiss their entire dogma as totally absurd, they claim to be Christians, and even accept the entire Old and New Testament. If one were to accept that the New Testament replaced the Law of the Old testament, then I think that Christians have a shakier claim on being the true branch of judo-Christian teachings than Mormons do. At least they have not dismissed the New Testament the way the Christians dismiss the old Testament. As for the polytheism argument, I don't think that the Mormon version is all that much sillier than the Christian Church, who argued among themselves for hundreds of years as to how they could remain monotheist, if the Bible teaches that there is a God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. It took them hundreds of years to declare, "Well, they are three, all rolled in to one, which makes us monotheists". Frankly, that kind of logic would not be used in a more pragmatic world, like a court of law. It is more than a leap of faith. It is a leap of common sense. In fact, the entire concept of monotheism is a Jewish invention. Frankly, if the New Testament throws out the Old, I think that it would have made more sense to just declare that monotheism no longer applies, kind of like when the Mormons had a revelation from god that monogamy was now god's wishes, just coincidentally being the requirement for US statehood.

We don't reject the Old Testament, we just don't follow Mosaic Law, you are conflating two separate things. As far as I know, Mormons don't follow Leviticus, but if they do, that would make them Jews, not Christians. Mormons wouldn't be "closer" to christian teachings if they even followed Leviticus. How is Polytheism in anyway close to the Abrahamic monotheistic theology? That is about the furthest thing from Abrahamic religion of any religious precept.

So I don't understand why you continue to talk about something you clearly know so little about. Comments like this about expose your lack of knowledge on the issue.

There have always been heretics, Mormons weren't the first. The existence of heretics doesn't discount the scriptural basis for the trinity.

1 John 5:7-8

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

1 John 5 - Faith in the Incarnate Son of God - Bible Gateway

 

[Steinlight]

Haha, lets make fun of his typo and ignore the next sentence and the rest of what he is saying and play dumb.

You are just proving the prior point I have made, that most atheists, not all, are clever sillies. You are being intentionally obtuse and ignoring the rest of the post due to a typo.

You refuse to address a list of obvious cruelties by God in the same post.... so you really can't complain about a lack of substantive answers if you don't give them yourself.

I addressed Leviticus, you just chose to ignore it.

 

[Steinlight]

Well some people don't feel murder is wrong at all, and feel no remorse when they kill, so there goes your theory that everyone FEELS murder is wrong. Without a God, there is no right or wrong, and whether one chooses to murder or not is a preference based on their personal feelings.

This is horseshit. GUy, I hate to break this to you, but the worship of Yahweh has only been about for 3000 years, and Jesus less than 2000. People knew murder was wrong before God was invented.

Fact is, there have been a lot of sociopaths who believed in your sky pixie, and they are just as bad as the ones
who didn't.

Without a universal arbiter of justice, there is no right and wrong in the eternal sense, just what you get away with and what you don't get away with on earth. And in the end "good or bad", everyone dies the same death anyways. In the end, with no God, whether one is Stalin or Mother Theresa, they both die, and in the eternal sense, their life is a wash. That is rather bleak to me. It may very well be true, but it is a rather dreary prospect, and I don't revel in it like you. I think this is mostly because you haven't thought out the dark and nihilistic consequences of Atheism.

So you believe in God because it makes you feel better about your mortality, not because you have any objective truth. Now besides the fact I think "Mother" Teresa gets too much credit. (Sorry, just watching people die of terrible diseases in a shitty hospital doesn't make you a "Saint".) Whether or not Atheism is nihlistic or not is sort of irrelevent. Either there is a God or their isn't. If there is, you should be able to present objective proof before you ask me to mold my life around "his" rules. If there isn't, then I probably should be able to figure out on my own right and wrong.

I am not a Jew. As Christians, we aren't bound by Old Testament law and the Mosaic Covenant. When Christ came, a new Covenant was formed and old one was absolved. These laws reflect the standard legal codes of the Bronze Age, which were generally strict in this way. the laws were harsh for a debased and sinful people. They were for that place and time, and have been since replaced when Jesus came with the new Covenant.

That's a nice rationalization that doesn't fly. The reason why Christianity abanoned the Mosiac law was even the Judeans weren't following it that much by the First Century. Nor did your "New Covenant" get rid of silly rules like "Thou shall not suffer a Witch To Live" - we kept burning those ladies right up until the 17th century.

You are one odd guy. Maybe watching too much Dr.Who zapped your brain cells. I never said you had to be Christian or Jewish to oppose murder. I said that objective morality cannot exist without a creator, there only exists preference from person to person.

What I have contended is that the first civilizations like Ur and first legal codes like the Hammurabi's code were the result of organized religion. Ur was organized and governed by a priestly class. Organized religion created a unified and cohesive society and legitimized the authority of the ruling class. Same with Hammurabi's legal code, it was created by a deity fearing man and accepted by a deity fearing people. This objective moral code garnered its legitimacy from the idea it was the will of a just deity. Without organized religion, civilization as we know it would not exist. So to callously throw it to the side throws civilization to the side as well.

I believe in God because most of my life I was agnostic or atheist, but I never found a convincing argument against the cosmological argument. But yes, I will admit, I was far more depressed and nihilistic as a non-believer, this is the case with most non-believers, and is born out in studies.
Religious and Spiritual Factors in Depression Review and Integration of the Research

I am not surprised you dislike Mother Theresa and devalue all the work she did to alleviate the suffering of the poor and sick, that fat hateful alcoholic christopher hitchens hated her for some reason as well. But thanks for proving my point, at the end of the day, there is no difference in the eternal sense between what happens to Mother Theresa or Stalin.

You clearly aren't able to delineate between right and wrong or live a healthy life. You besmirch mother theresa, hate women, don't have children, and get moral guidance from some gay british cartoon. You aren't exactly a shining example of an atheist with a strong moral compass.

The Jews were a fallen people, and continue to be. the fact they were so during the time of Christ doesn't somehow negate the New Covenant. I can't help it if some people, particularly some protestants in Salem didn't follow Church Canon Law which stated that believing in witches is against the Christian faith in of itself

The normal and accepted scholarly view of history - I'll call it the "Standard School" - holds an interesting view of the Canon. It's generally seen as condemning belief in Witchcraft. That is, it does not condemn Witchcraft itself, because, the Standard School scholars say, there was no such thing, and never had been. Rather, it's seen as condemning belief in the existence of Witches and in the existence of certain related matters. According to this interpretation, if you lived in the tenth or eleventh century, and you believed there were Witches, you could be forced by the Church to do penance under the provisions of the Canon. In accord with various scholarly conventions (which will be explored in depth in other articles on this Website), the Canon Episcopi is thus often held by modern scholars to be "skeptical" and "rational" because it is thought to deny the existence of Witches.

The Canon Episcopi

 

[Vandalshandle]

While I am not a Mormon, and dismiss their entire dogma as totally absurd, they claim to be Christians, and even accept the entire Old and New Testament. If one were to accept that the New Testament replaced the Law of the Old testament, then I think that Christians have a shakier claim on being the true branch of judo-Christian teachings than Mormons do. At least they have not dismissed the New Testament the way the Christians dismiss the old Testament. As for the polytheism argument, I don't think that the Mormon version is all that much sillier than the Christian Church, who argued among themselves for hundreds of years as to how they could remain monotheist, if the Bible teaches that there is a God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. It took them hundreds of years to declare, "Well, they are three, all rolled in to one, which makes us monotheists". Frankly, that kind of logic would not be used in a more pragmatic world, like a court of law. It is more than a leap of faith. It is a leap of common sense. In fact, the entire concept of monotheism is a Jewish invention. Frankly, if the New Testament throws out the Old, I think that it would have made more sense to just declare that monotheism no longer applies, kind of like when the Mormons had a revelation from god that monogamy was now god's wishes, just coincidentally being the requirement for US statehood.

We don't reject the Old Testament, we just don't follow Mosaic Law, you are conflating two separate things. As far as I know, Mormons don't follow Leviticus, but if they do, that would make them Jews, not Christians. Mormons wouldn't be "closer" to christian teachings if they even followed Leviticus. How is Polytheism in anyway close to the Abrahamic monotheistic theology? That is about the furthest thing from Abrahamic religion of any religious precept.

So I don't understand why you continue to talk about something you clearly know so little about. Comments like this about expose your lack of knowledge on the issue.

There have always been heretics, Mormons weren't the first. The existence of heretics doesn't discount the scriptural basis for the trinity.

1 John 5:7-8

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

1 John 5 - Faith in the Incarnate Son of God - Bible Gateway

I can't help but wonder, Stein, Do the personal insults you make to me make you feel superior? I ask, because I have been scrupulously civil in this debate, but, for some reason, when you get backed up against the wall, you decide that the issue is my lack of knowledge, not the point that I made....???

 

[Steinlight]

While I am not a Mormon, and dismiss their entire dogma as totally absurd, they claim to be Christians, and even accept the entire Old and New Testament. If one were to accept that the New Testament replaced the Law of the Old testament, then I think that Christians have a shakier claim on being the true branch of judo-Christian teachings than Mormons do. At least they have not dismissed the New Testament the way the Christians dismiss the old Testament. As for the polytheism argument, I don't think that the Mormon version is all that much sillier than the Christian Church, who argued among themselves for hundreds of years as to how they could remain monotheist, if the Bible teaches that there is a God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. It took them hundreds of years to declare, "Well, they are three, all rolled in to one, which makes us monotheists". Frankly, that kind of logic would not be used in a more pragmatic world, like a court of law. It is more than a leap of faith. It is a leap of common sense. In fact, the entire concept of monotheism is a Jewish invention. Frankly, if the New Testament throws out the Old, I think that it would have made more sense to just declare that monotheism no longer applies, kind of like when the Mormons had a revelation from god that monogamy was now god's wishes, just coincidentally being the requirement for US statehood.

We don't reject the Old Testament, we just don't follow Mosaic Law, you are conflating two separate things. As far as I know, Mormons don't follow Leviticus, but if they do, that would make them Jews, not Christians. Mormons wouldn't be "closer" to christian teachings if they even followed Leviticus. How is Polytheism in anyway close to the Abrahamic monotheistic theology? That is about the furthest thing from Abrahamic religion of any religious precept.

So I don't understand why you continue to talk about something you clearly know so little about. Comments like this about expose your lack of knowledge on the issue.

There have always been heretics, Mormons weren't the first. The existence of heretics doesn't discount the scriptural basis for the trinity.

1 John 5:7-8

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

1 John 5 - Faith in the Incarnate Son of God - Bible Gateway

I can't help but wonder, Stein, Do the personal insults you make to me make you feel superior? I ask, because I have been scrupulously civil in this debate, but, for some reason, when you get backed up against the wall, you decide that the issue is my lack of knowledge, not the point that I made....???

You didn't make a valid point about Mormonism or how it is closer to scripture. Now how about you respond instead of complaining that your internet feelings were hurt.

 

[Vandalshandle]

While I am not a Mormon, and dismiss their entire dogma as totally absurd, they claim to be Christians, and even accept the entire Old and New Testament. If one were to accept that the New Testament replaced the Law of the Old testament, then I think that Christians have a shakier claim on being the true branch of judo-Christian teachings than Mormons do. At least they have not dismissed the New Testament the way the Christians dismiss the old Testament. As for the polytheism argument, I don't think that the Mormon version is all that much sillier than the Christian Church, who argued among themselves for hundreds of years as to how they could remain monotheist, if the Bible teaches that there is a God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. It took them hundreds of years to declare, "Well, they are three, all rolled in to one, which makes us monotheists". Frankly, that kind of logic would not be used in a more pragmatic world, like a court of law. It is more than a leap of faith. It is a leap of common sense. In fact, the entire concept of monotheism is a Jewish invention. Frankly, if the New Testament throws out the Old, I think that it would have made more sense to just declare that monotheism no longer applies, kind of like when the Mormons had a revelation from god that monogamy was now god's wishes, just coincidentally being the requirement for US statehood.

We don't reject the Old Testament, we just don't follow Mosaic Law, you are conflating two separate things. As far as I know, Mormons don't follow Leviticus, but if they do, that would make them Jews, not Christians. Mormons wouldn't be "closer" to christian teachings if they even followed Leviticus. How is Polytheism in anyway close to the Abrahamic monotheistic theology? That is about the furthest thing from Abrahamic religion of any religious precept.

So I don't understand why you continue to talk about something you clearly know so little about. Comments like this about expose your lack of knowledge on the issue.

There have always been heretics, Mormons weren't the first. The existence of heretics doesn't discount the scriptural basis for the trinity.

1 John 5:7-8

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

1 John 5 - Faith in the Incarnate Son of God - Bible Gateway

I can't help but wonder, Stein, Do the personal insults you make to me make you feel superior? I ask, because I have been scrupulously civil in this debate, but, for some reason, when you get backed up against the wall, you decide that the issue is my lack of knowledge, not the point that I made....???

You didn't make a valid point about Mormonism or how it is closer to scripture. Now how about you respond instead of complaining that your internet feelings were hurt.

No, I just don't think that will work with you. Instead, I will just point out hat you are an ignorant superstitious sponge who has sucked up everything that your false religion has fed you during your indoctrination over the years.; all of which is intentionally designed and manufactured to keep you from thinking independent thoughts.

There! I feel like we are now on a level playing field!

 

[Steinlight]

While I am not a Mormon, and dismiss their entire dogma as totally absurd, they claim to be Christians, and even accept the entire Old and New Testament. If one were to accept that the New Testament replaced the Law of the Old testament, then I think that Christians have a shakier claim on being the true branch of judo-Christian teachings than Mormons do. At least they have not dismissed the New Testament the way the Christians dismiss the old Testament. As for the polytheism argument, I don't think that the Mormon version is all that much sillier than the Christian Church, who argued among themselves for hundreds of years as to how they could remain monotheist, if the Bible teaches that there is a God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. It took them hundreds of years to declare, "Well, they are three, all rolled in to one, which makes us monotheists". Frankly, that kind of logic would not be used in a more pragmatic world, like a court of law. It is more than a leap of faith. It is a leap of common sense. In fact, the entire concept of monotheism is a Jewish invention. Frankly, if the New Testament throws out the Old, I think that it would have made more sense to just declare that monotheism no longer applies, kind of like when the Mormons had a revelation from god that monogamy was now god's wishes, just coincidentally being the requirement for US statehood.

We don't reject the Old Testament, we just don't follow Mosaic Law, you are conflating two separate things. As far as I know, Mormons don't follow Leviticus, but if they do, that would make them Jews, not Christians. Mormons wouldn't be "closer" to christian teachings if they even followed Leviticus. How is Polytheism in anyway close to the Abrahamic monotheistic theology? That is about the furthest thing from Abrahamic religion of any religious precept.

So I don't understand why you continue to talk about something you clearly know so little about. Comments like this about expose your lack of knowledge on the issue.

There have always been heretics, Mormons weren't the first. The existence of heretics doesn't discount the scriptural basis for the trinity.

1 John 5:7-8

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

1 John 5 - Faith in the Incarnate Son of God - Bible Gateway

I can't help but wonder, Stein, Do the personal insults you make to me make you feel superior? I ask, because I have been scrupulously civil in this debate, but, for some reason, when you get backed up against the wall, you decide that the issue is my lack of knowledge, not the point that I made....???

You didn't make a valid point about Mormonism or how it is closer to scripture. Now how about you respond instead of complaining that your internet feelings were hurt.

No, I just don't think that will work with you. Instead, I will just point out hat you are an ignorant superstitious sponge who has sucked up everything that your false religion has fed you during your indoctrination over the years.; all of which is intentionally designed and manufactured to keep you from thinking independent thoughts.

There! I feel like we are now on a level playing field!

Yea, I was brainwashed my whole life. That is laughable considering I have been an atheist and agnostic most of my whole life and grew up pretty much only a nominally religious family(attended church at christmas and easter and that's pretty much it). Can't possibly be that I came to a conclusion after thoughtful contemplation. Your analysis of how I came to Christianity is as shallow as the rest of your analysis here.

But please, keep putting your goofy internet version of internet atheism for all the rest of us to see.

 

[BluePhantom]

Hey JoeB is it worth me coming out of nowhere to chime in or do you have this?