Why Stories of Jesus Became More Magical Over Time

[HUGGY]

and in another thread you hateful leftist will say there's no war on Christmas

you're ability to lie on the same message board and pretend you don't is just astounding.

How is asking a question about what is a pretty preposterous story constitute a "War" on it.

We are asking a question. How likely is it that the whole "Virgin Birth" thing actually happened? Or the whole "Slaughter of all the Babies" that no other historical account mentions, not even the other three Gospels? Or the nuttiness of a star being able to point out a specific house? (Stars are quadrillions of miles away!)

b/c you scum only really care during Christmas

when people are trying to be joyful, you filth bring the hate

hate is all you have, and it pisses you off that no amount of hate is going to destroy Christmas

you chose to be here on this thread on your "holy day", no one forced you. for some of us knowing the roots or any religion is interesting, wherever it leads

I'm not a christian, I'm just pointing out that you spread hate on a day you know is holy to most, b/c hate is all you are

Is it hatefull to suggest that if we took away the free stuff (gifts) and the Christians just acknowledged the religious myths?

A truly virgin birth is rediculous. If Joseph wasn't babbie's daddy then what you are celebrating is infidelity...Tsk... Tsk

Huggy wags finger...

 

[BluePhantom]

Huggy...are their beliefs really hurting you? I mean is it really causing you pain?

 

[JoeB131]

I addressed Leviticus, you just chose to ignore it.

No, you used the typical "That's the Old Testament" argument as to why you don't go around stoning girls who have their cherries popped.

Reality is, God didn't change. Jesus didn't change that.

We changed. We finally figured out we don't make women marry their rapists (something th at was on the lawbooks as late as 1850) or burn witches (something we were still doing as late as 1697) because Jesus said not to.

We stopped doing it because we stopped being barbarians.

 

[JoeB131]

I said that objective morality cannot exist without a creator, there only exists preference from person to person.

So what you are saying is the only thing that keeps you from being a total douchebag is belief in a magic sky pixie? Well, spoiler alert. It isn't working.

I believe in God because most of my life I was agnostic or atheist, but I never found a convincing argument against the cosmological argument. But yes, I will admit, I was far more depressed and nihilistic as a non-believer, this is the case with most non-believers, and is born out in studies.

So Jesus is a drug that makes you feel better about yourself? that's kind of pathetic.

I am not surprised you dislike Mother Theresa and devalue all the work she did to alleviate the suffering of the poor and sick, that fat hateful alcoholic christopher hitchens hated her for some reason as well. But thanks for proving my point, at the end of the day, there is no difference in the eternal sense between what happens to Mother Theresa or Stalin.

I dislike MT because the woman was a hypocrite. She just sat their and watched poor people die in her miserable dirty hospital, but when she got cancer, she was on a plane to the Mayo Clinic. As Hitchens pointed out, she wasn't a friend to the poor, she was a friend to poverty. I'll go a step further. Her church has caused untold misery because it opposses the greatest anti-poverty tool ever devised- family planning.

You clearly aren't able to delineate between right and wrong or live a healthy life. You besmirch mother theresa, hate women, don't have children, and get moral guidance from some gay british cartoon. You aren't exactly a shining example of an atheist with a strong moral compass.

You do realize DW isn't a "cartoon", right? Well, never mind. I love women. I just don't think marriage is important. And Mother Teresa was a real word USMB won't let me use.

The Jews were a fallen people, and continue to be. the fact they were so during the time of Christ doesn't somehow negate the New Covenant. I can't help it if some people, particularly some protestants in Salem didn't follow Church Canon Law which stated that believing in witches is against the Christian faith in of itself

Look, guy, you kind of are getting into Stormfront territory with your antisemitism here. Frankly, you theists have been murdering each other for thousands of years for not worshiping the right Sky Pixie or not believing Jesus really turns into bread, or not believing in how many sacraments there are.

The thing about witches- it's right in the Bible. Thou shall not Suffer a witch to live. And yes, the Church really, really did believe there were witches and there were thousands of witch burnings over the centuries.

Until PEOPLE realized that there were no such thing as witches, not the church.

 

[JoeB131]

Hey JoeB is it worth me coming out of nowhere to chime in or do you have this?

Um, it would be helpful if you were more specific in what i have...

I'm not sure why you are "coming out of nowhere". You like totally vanished when your Mormon got his ass kicked 2 years ago after you insisted up and down the polls were all in his favor.

 

[HUGGY]

Huggy...are their beliefs really hurting you? I mean is it really causing you pain?

Is THAT the bar...actual pain? How about inconvenience? Places I do busines closed. Crazy shoppers...News focusing on trivial crap like shopping?

Annoyance. Endless visuals of those that have less in the rest of the year and police giving these kids some worthless Chinese made crap as a charity? WTF?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

One of the thumpers held forth last night ... said virgin birth is impossible. I corrected him, suggested he look up parthenogenesis, informed him that only female offspring is possible.

OTOH, I was taught that "virgin birth" referred to being born without original sin.

But, there are so many gods and so many different beliefs - choose the one you like and go with it.

where do they get that original sin crapola from? , It is not part of Judaism or ever part of Judaism were they claim christianity springs from

Judaism s Rejection of Original Sin Jewish Virtual Library

Jews are wrong about a lot of things, that isn't a surprise. Apparently the author doesn't understand Genesis

Jew are wrong bout our bible, but the goyim know all about it?

Yes, Jews are a fallen people who have hearts that have been continuously hardened to God, if you read the Old Testament you would know this. Heck, just look at yourself.

God sent his son to Jerusalem, the Jews rejected and killed him; God wipes Israel from the map for 2,000 years.

Jesus warned his followers to run for the hills the second they saw the enemy banners on the horizon, all of his follower fled to Pella and were spared.

 

[HUGGY]

Huggy...are their beliefs really hurting you? I mean is it really causing you pain?

I compare it to a parade for the gays. OK one day..they clean up afterwards..no big deal. This thing goes on and on and has become a disgusting dog and pony show with no religious significance. It just a huge push to sell crap and give it to people that do not need it otherwise they would already have it in most cases. It glorifies wastefull wealth and depresses those that have less. It has turned into a huge guilt trip that does in fact ruin lives monitarily not too different from drug addiction.

 

[Vandalshandle]

"God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son".
Abe said, "Man, you must be puttin' me on!"
God said "NO!", Abe said, "What?"
God said, "You can do what you want to, but,
the next time you see me, you'd better run!"
Abe said, "Where do you want this killin' done?"
Go said, "Over out on highway 61".

Dylan

 

[JoeB131]

God sent his son to Jerusalem, the Jews rejected and killed him; God wipes Israel from the map for 2,000 years.

Jesus warned his followers to run for the hills the second they saw the enemy banners on the horizon, all of his follower fled to Pella and were spared.

wow. That's like fucking crazy.

I guess the problem I have is that if the Jews saw Jesus work actual miracles, they probably wouldn't have rejected him.

If Jesus existed, which of course, he didn't.

 

[Vandalshandle]

God sent his son to Jerusalem, the Jews rejected and killed him; God wipes Israel from the map for 2,000 years.

Jesus warned his followers to run for the hills the second they saw the enemy banners on the horizon, all of his follower fled to Pella and were spared.

wow. That's like fucking crazy.

I guess the problem I have is that if the Jews saw Jesus work actual miracles, they probably wouldn't have rejected him.

If Jesus existed, which of course, he didn't.

Damn! And all this time I thought it was the Romans that were responsible for the destruction of the temple. Is god a Roman?

 

[Steinlight]

I addressed Leviticus, you just chose to ignore it.

No, you used the typical "That's the Old Testament" argument as to why you don't go around stoning girls who have their cherries popped.

Reality is, God didn't change. Jesus didn't change that.

We changed. We finally figured out we don't make women marry their rapists (something th at was on the lawbooks as late as 1850) or burn witches (something we were still doing as late as 1697) because Jesus said not to.

We stopped doing it because we stopped being barbarians.

You can say Jesus didn't change anything, but is did, he declared the old law of Leviticus obsolete.

But lets accept your argument, that morality changed from the Bronze Age to the time of Jesus, and less people practiced the laws in Leviticus by the time he came around.

Either way, you can't fairly attribute the laws enacted in Leviticus to Christianity, since as you say they weren't in common practice at the time.

And as I said before, Christianity can't be blamed when adherents ignored Jesus saying mosaic law was obsolete or Church cannon law which condemned the belief in witches. You should take it up with the Jews, a fallen people who still claim to abide by the old law. But there wouldn't even be much of a point there, as Modern Judaism certainly doesn't abide by it in whole today.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

God sent his son to Jerusalem, the Jews rejected and killed him; God wipes Israel from the map for 2,000 years.

Jesus warned his followers to run for the hills the second they saw the enemy banners on the horizon, all of his follower fled to Pella and were spared.

wow. That's like fucking crazy.

I guess the problem I have is that if the Jews saw Jesus work actual miracles, they probably wouldn't have rejected him.

If Jesus existed, which of course, he didn't.

He didn't???

Really?

So whose followers was Nero torturing in Rome in 60AD?

 

[Steinlight]

I said that objective morality cannot exist without a creator, there only exists preference from person to person.

So what you are saying is the only thing that keeps you from being a total douchebag is belief in a magic sky pixie? Well, spoiler alert. It isn't working.

I believe in God because most of my life I was agnostic or atheist, but I never found a convincing argument against the cosmological argument. But yes, I will admit, I was far more depressed and nihilistic as a non-believer, this is the case with most non-believers, and is born out in studies.

So Jesus is a drug that makes you feel better about yourself? that's kind of pathetic.

I am not surprised you dislike Mother Theresa and devalue all the work she did to alleviate the suffering of the poor and sick, that fat hateful alcoholic christopher hitchens hated her for some reason as well. But thanks for proving my point, at the end of the day, there is no difference in the eternal sense between what happens to Mother Theresa or Stalin.

I dislike MT because the woman was a hypocrite. She just sat their and watched poor people die in her miserable dirty hospital, but when she got cancer, she was on a plane to the Mayo Clinic. As Hitchens pointed out, she wasn't a friend to the poor, she was a friend to poverty. I'll go a step further. Her church has caused untold misery because it opposses the greatest anti-poverty tool ever devised- family planning.

You clearly aren't able to delineate between right and wrong or live a healthy life. You besmirch mother theresa, hate women, don't have children, and get moral guidance from some gay british cartoon. You aren't exactly a shining example of an atheist with a strong moral compass.

You do realize DW isn't a "cartoon", right? Well, never mind. I love women. I just don't think marriage is important. And Mother Teresa was a real word USMB won't let me use.

The Jews were a fallen people, and continue to be. the fact they were so during the time of Christ doesn't somehow negate the New Covenant. I can't help it if some people, particularly some protestants in Salem didn't follow Church Canon Law which stated that believing in witches is against the Christian faith in of itself

Look, guy, you kind of are getting into Stormfront territory with your antisemitism here. Frankly, you theists have been murdering each other for thousands of years for not worshiping the right Sky Pixie or not believing Jesus really turns into bread, or not believing in how many sacraments there are.

The thing about witches- it's right in the Bible. Thou shall not Suffer a witch to live. And yes, the Church really, really did believe there were witches and there were thousands of witch burnings over the centuries.

Until PEOPLE realized that there were no such thing as witches, not the church.

I like how you post like an emotional high schooler. You are about at that level, considering you watch Dr.Who and can't hold down a functional relationship with a family.

No, not Jesus persay, to be honest is is more the idea that there is right and wrong, good and evil, and that eternal justice is dealt out in the end. It isn't pathetic to desire for a meaning in life beyond one's immediate physical existence. Humans have sought for such meaning throughout the ages. The fact that you don't wonder about these things and at the very least mock those that do just exposes you further as a, anti-social worthless and shallow social autist. It is interesting yo mention drugs, the fact you assume comfort comes through drugs just exposes your base hedonism than it does anything about me.

You and Christopher Hitchens are vulgar morons. She didn't just "sit there" and smile as these people died. The fact you attribute such characteristic to you just reflects your nihilistic world view and inner malice. And provides further evidence of the darkness of the atheist worldview taken to its conclusions. She provided housing and medical/emotional care for the poor and afflicted. The idea that she had to receive medical care in one of her centers or otherwise she is a hypocrite is absurd. That's like saying if you help the homeless you must live as a homeless person yourself. What a foolish thing to say. So I guess we can assume by this standard Hitchens and yourself never gave to the homeless and poor, lest he have to be poor and homeless himself? So either Hitchens is a selfish man or a hypocrite? What an absurd thing to say.

Know, I don't, thankfully I am proud that I don't know much about your gay show. I just know that everyone I now that said they watched the show was a self absorbed liberal faggot.

Now you are changing your story, first you were calling women more or less sluts and said you wanted to not get married because some woman would cheat on you behind your back. Now you are saying you love women. Look just because you may or may not be sexually attracted to women, which I am beginning to doubt, doesn't mean you love them. It just shows you have a shallow view of women, view them as objects for sexual pleasure, since you yourself haven't been in a functioning relationship or had much sex yourself.

Yea, and there we go, the name calling, calling me an "anti-semite" when you don't have argument. You aren't even a jew, how pathetic and weak of an argument when you have nothing left.

The secular left, in the last century alone, is responsible for tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of death in the last century. Certainly more than deaths in the name of Christianity. When are you atheists going to get control of yourself?

 

[HUGGY]

The argument that this or the other group in the last century has killed more people is as shallow as can be.

The SCALE of these atrocities is totally related to the MEANS of killing. Planes and bombs and tanks and machine guns and yes gas chambers are devices not available before the last 100 years or so.

On a scale of a percentage of the populations the Black Plague killed far more people in Europe than anything humans were capable of.

I believe the Christians would have killed a lot more supposed witches and heritics in the centuries around 1400 AD if they had the MEANS.

 

[Vandalshandle]

JoeB,

Welcome to the "vulgar moron" club. I am president, and I will send you the secret decoder ring and instructions on the secret handshake. We are not a very exclusive club, though. anyone that disagrees with Stein is at least eligible for membership....

Huggy, your membership is still pending approval by our secret nominating committee.

 

[JoeB131]

You can say Jesus didn't change anything, but is did, he declared the old law of Leviticus obsolete.

Did he?

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (NIV, Matthew 5:17–18)

Wow, that doesn't sound like a guy who has overridden the old laws. And this is the problem. Jesus is a character made up by multiple authors. Matthew was of course, writing for a Jewish Audience before the Church decided to stop trying to convert the Jews and just went on to straight-up murdering them. So of course, his version of Jesus is going to say, "Nope, all the crazy laws Moses brought down from the mountain are still in effect." And if you belong to a church like the Seventh Day Adventists, you still follow all those crazy dietary laws.

It's when the Church decided they wanted to bring in gentiles they got rid of such silly rules as not eating pork and weenie chopping, but the stupid rules on stoning your wife or burning a witch, no one rescinded those.

But lets accept your argument, that morality changed from the Bronze Age to the time of Jesus, and less people practiced the laws in Leviticus by the time he came around.

Either way, you can't fairly attribute the laws enacted in Leviticus to Christianity, since as you say they weren't in common practice at the time.

You miss my point. If the laws in Leviticus were put down as GOD'S WORD, then how could they be rescinded? Right? Of course, i would be more impressed with Jesus if he said something like "Owning other human beings is wrong" rather than if he had said, "Hey, we don't need to do the weenie chopping anymore."

And as I said before, Christianity can't be blamed when adherents ignored Jesus saying mosaic law was obsolete or Church cannon law which condemned the belief in witches. You should take it up with the Jews, a fallen people who still claim to abide by the old law. But there wouldn't even be much of a point there, as Modern Judaism certainly doesn't abide by it in whole today.

No, nobody abides by it today, because those rules are barbaric. Which is understandable if you accept that they were written by barbarians for barbarians. But you guys insist that they were written by an infaliable God for all time. And if people were still owning slaves until 1850 or still burning witches in 1696, then the conclusion one has to draw is that we've outgrown God.

 

[JoeB131]

JoeB,

Welcome to the "vulgar moron" club. I am president, and I will send you the secret decoder ring and instructions on the secret handshake. We are not a very exclusive club, though. anyone that disagrees with Stein is at least eligible for membership....

Huggy, your membership is still pending approval by our secret nominating committee.

As long as there's no gay stuff in the initiation, I'm in.

 

[PredFan]

Very good piece on the virgin birth story and the evolution of the Jesus story over time.

Not-So-Virgin Birth Why Stories of Jesus Became More Magical Over Time Alternet

Hey moron, have you ever had an original thought?

 

[Meriweather]

The argument that this or the other group in the last century has killed more people is as shallow as can be.

The SCALE of these atrocities is totally related to the MEANS of killing. Planes and bombs and tanks and machine guns and yes gas chambers are devices not available before the last 100 years or so.

On a scale of a percentage of the populations the Black Plague killed far more people in Europe than anything humans were capable of.

I believe the Christians would have killed a lot more supposed witches and heritics in the centuries around 1400 AD if they had the MEANS.

The supposition is that Christians would have armed themselves with the devices you mentioned. For example, the number of mob lynching that occurred in America during the twentieth century claim about the same number (about six thousand) of victims scholars say the Inquisition took. This would not be a fair comparison as that the Inquisition had government backing--whereas lynch mobs did not. A more accurate comparison would be how many deaths did the Church mandate as opposed to how many deaths the State mandates through the court system.

I tried (but failed in a quick search) to find the statistics of death resulting from Christian mob violence against those of a different faith as opposed to racial mob violence.

The Crusades may be more accurately compared to how many deaths resulted from the dispute of land in America between natives and immigrants.