"You didn't get there on your own"

[Article 15]

Do you guys make this shit up as you go along? Seriously?

yes. they do.

They are liars by nature.

 

[Cecilie1200]

which question you want anwered first...oh darn I wasnt aware that I was supposed to break out my slide rule and abacus for this assignment.

We are talking about HOW MUCH are we? We are talking about IF THEY DID IT ON THEIR OWN. Its not a HOW MUCH debate. Its a did they get there all by themselves debate.

If you want to discuss what a fair tax rate is...thats a different debate... one Im sure we will also disagree on...but start the thread, pm me the link and we can debate that too.

No one makes it on their own. Successful budiness owners have families and employees and customers who help a business grow. But Papa O wasnt talking about their contributions and rewards. He was talking about the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. I can say with certainty that the feds did nothing to help our business. Nothing. And shut up about the fucking roads. Most of them belong to the state.

No. Papa O was talking about the contribution that THE PEOPLE put into the system, bulding roads and schools and fire houses and cop shops.

Why do so many people forget that WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT?!?!?!?!

And in so doing, implying that business owners are not a part of "the people".

Why do YOU keep forgetting that "we" are the government, as in "we" already paid for that infrastructure? Why do YOU think it's okay for Obama to tell business owners, "You didn't build that" when they DID, and continue to do so, because THEY are part of the "we" that is the government?

There is not any way in the world to spin what he said that will make it correct or acceptable to anyone who doesn't already have his head up Obama's colon.

 

[bripat9643]

You're missing the point vidi...

THE SAME bridges and roads that you claim helped you somehow failed other businesses...

Solyndra somehow couldn't use those bridges and roads to make it work...

It wasn't the magical roads and bridges that made your business successful....

Barry was wrong and he's in full damage control trying to spin it around....

Vidi is just trying to justify the parasite's belief that he's entitled to what you produced with your own mind and your own two hands. That's the fundamental creed of liberalism: That we're all obligated to serve as hosts for the worthless blood suckers.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No one makes it on their own. Successful budiness owners have families and employees and customers who help a business grow. But Papa O wasnt talking about their contributions and rewards. He was talking about the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. I can say with certainty that the feds did nothing to help our business. Nothing. And shut up about the fucking roads. Most of them belong to the state.

No. Papa O was talking about the contribution that THE PEOPLE put into the system, bulding roads and schools and fire houses and cop shops.

Well that's just stupid... Those same roads, bridges, schools and fire houses didn't help the failed businesses...

If they helped the successful businesses then they didn't help the failed businesses...

IOW, you need to remove them from the equation...

As I said in my analogy that 100% of the leftists on this thread were too afraid to address, government is not part of the team. Government is the field, a part of the environment or backdrop against which we all live our lives. It does not make us successful or unsuccessful. It is just there, a factor which we all need to consider and work around in our decisions, like weather and geography.

 

[Vidi]

It was there when we had slavery
It was there when we had Japanese Americans locked up in camps

oh wait....

No keep going because youre absolutely RIGHT. 110% correct in fact. The government is US, the PEOPLE. And people are flawed and make HORRIBLE mistakes.

The government is not us, numskull. If it was, then why can't I stop paying taxes? Government is a gang of men, separate and distinct from the rest of us.

We CANNOT accept the benefits of self governance and ignore the penalties and responsibilities that go along with that. We MUST be honest about our mistakes, accept blame and learn from them or we are doomed to repeat them over and over again.

So please, by all means, continue your list.

Since I'm not the government, your rant is totally meaningless.

Never heard of "of, for and by the people" huh?

Shame. Its a very interesting concept. Been around just over a couple hundred years now.

A Republican President mentioned something about it once...at Gettysburg...but he wasnt for States rights so I guess he didnt count.

 

[Cecilie1200]

/facepalm

wow, way to laser focus on a tree and COMPLETELY miss the forest.

Way to defend Barry's dumbass remarks...

Again, for those who fail to see reality: Bridges and roads are there for customers of failed businesses and successful businesses...

To credit them for the success of some while ignoring them for the failure of others is beyond stupid...

Bridges and roads are even used by people who don't have businesses AT ALL.

Infrastructure does not make a business successful. It's just an environmental factor around which the REAL catalyst of success - the business owner - works.

 

[bripat9643]

You're missing the point vidi...

THE SAME bridges and roads that you claim helped you somehow failed other businesses...

Solyndra somehow couldn't use those bridges and roads to make it work...

It wasn't the magical roads and bridges that made your business successful....

Barry was wrong and he's in full damage control trying to spin it around....

But you're giving a circular argument to validate your hatred of Obama. How can a road or a bridge 'fail' a business unless a bridge collapsed and deliveries couldn't be made. However, a working road or bridge does add to the success. You are giving the scenario's equal value when you shouldn't.

A working bridge can't even exist until the taxpayers have already paid for it, so your argument is "circular."

Obama is only wrong if he said things that the right are trying to make out he said. In context, he never said those things. Only a partisan hack would say otherwise. So, are you? A partisan hack that is...

Anyone can listen to his remarks for themselves, so it's stupid for you to claim we didn't hear what we plainly heard.

Obama revealed his cloven hoof and accidentally told the world that he's a Marxist to the core.

 

[Vidi]

You're missing the point vidi...

THE SAME bridges and roads that you claim helped you somehow failed other businesses...

Solyndra somehow couldn't use those bridges and roads to make it work...

It wasn't the magical roads and bridges that made your business successful....

Barry was wrong and he's in full damage control trying to spin it around....

Vidi is just trying to justify the parasite's belief that he's entitled to what you produced with your own mind and your own two hands. That's the fundamental creed of liberalism: That we're all obligated to serve as hosts for the worthless blood suckers.

LOL too funny. You make illogical arguments, deny the very foundation of our countries political system and then accuse someone who demands responsibility of being a parasite.

Nice.

 

[Cecilie1200]

/facepalm

wow, way to laser focus on a tree and COMPLETELY miss the forest.

Way to defend Barry's dumbass remarks...

Again, for those who fail to see reality: Bridges and roads are there for customers of failed businesses and successful businesses...

To credit them for the success of some while ignoring them for the failure of others is beyond stupid...

I just credited them for the failure of once successful businesses.

So again I issue the challenge: Show me an example of a successful business that NEVER utilized the commons.

Until you CAN, your argument is invalid.

Except they weren't responsible for the failure of the businesses, because ALL the businesses that had previously made use of them didn't fail. The failure of those businesses belongs to the owners/managers who didn't make the right decisions to deal with the random environmental factor that was introduced into everyone's life.

So why don't you try issuing a challenge that isn't predicated on an irrelevant straw man?

 

[Vidi]

You're missing the point vidi...

THE SAME bridges and roads that you claim helped you somehow failed other businesses...

Solyndra somehow couldn't use those bridges and roads to make it work...

It wasn't the magical roads and bridges that made your business successful....

Barry was wrong and he's in full damage control trying to spin it around....

But you're giving a circular argument to validate your hatred of Obama. How can a road or a bridge 'fail' a business unless a bridge collapsed and deliveries couldn't be made. However, a working road or bridge does add to the success. You are giving the scenario's equal value when you shouldn't.

A working bridge can't even exist until the taxpayers have already paid for it, so your argument is "circular."

Obama is only wrong if he said things that the right are trying to make out he said. In context, he never said those things. Only a partisan hack would say otherwise. So, are you? A partisan hack that is...

Anyone can listen to his remarks for themselves, so it's stupid for you to claim we didn't hear what we plainly heard.

Obama revealed his cloven hoof and accidentally told the world that he's a Marxist to the core.

cloven hoof? Now hes the anti christ?

and you expect ANYONE to take you seriously, nutjob?

 

[Cecilie1200]

You're missing the point vidi...

THE SAME bridges and roads that you claim helped you somehow failed other businesses...

Solyndra somehow couldn't use those bridges and roads to make it work...

It wasn't the magical roads and bridges that made your business successful....

Barry was wrong and he's in full damage control trying to spin it around....

Sorry House old buddy, youre missing the point.

YES, the business owner is a MAJOR factor. I couldnt have been successful WITHOUT my own contribution. But I also couldnnt have been successful WITHOUT the contribution of society. and THAT was Obamas point. And one Im sorry to say you missed.


In fairness, Obama didnt make the point nearly as well as Elizabeth Warren did.

No, Obama wasn't speaking for "society". He was speaking for GOVERNMENT. And no, they aren't the same thing.

 

[Vidi]

You're missing the point vidi...

THE SAME bridges and roads that you claim helped you somehow failed other businesses...

Solyndra somehow couldn't use those bridges and roads to make it work...

It wasn't the magical roads and bridges that made your business successful....

Barry was wrong and he's in full damage control trying to spin it around....

Sorry House old buddy, youre missing the point.

YES, the business owner is a MAJOR factor. I couldnt have been successful WITHOUT my own contribution. But I also couldnnt have been successful WITHOUT the contribution of society. and THAT was Obamas point. And one Im sorry to say you missed.


In fairness, Obama didnt make the point nearly as well as Elizabeth Warren did.

No, Obama wasn't speaking for "society". He was speaking for GOVERNMENT. And no, they aren't the same thing.

/facepalm

another idiot in desperate need of a civics class....sigh


do you have any concept of what self governance means? at all?

 

[bripat9643]

I couldnt agree with you more. Which is WHY I support a MAJOR raise in taxes. WE need to pay for this. Not our children or our grandchildren...US!

ROFL! Now we get to the nut of the issue. As we all knew from the beginning, this whole tirade is just a ploy to justify raising taxes. What is the "this" we need to pay for? Most of our taxes go to provide sustenance for parasites. Very little goes to building roads and bridges. What we really need to do is cut off the parasites.

Look, since the Reagan years ( back in high school ) all I heard was how my generation was going to be the first to do worse than our parents because of the rising debt. And its only gotten worse. The Baby Boomers really fucked us, lets just be honest about that. They put everything on a credit card and pushed the bill onto the next generation...talk about taxation without representation huh?...well, that next generation is US.

It wont be easy. Hell, after world war 2 the top tax rate was 91%!!!!!!! Thats crazy, but thats what was required to get the country on track and turn it into the superpower that it became.

Now Im not saying we should go back to 91% by any means, but the difference is the "greatest generation" were willing to make the sacrifices neccessary to provide for the future of this great nation.

Are we?

Fuck off.

I'll never agree to turning over more of my paycheck to parasites. You can go stick your head on the chopping block if you like, but you aren't taking me with you if I can do anything about it.

 

[bripat9643]

This might surprise you, but I think taxes should go up too. My concern is that government show fiscal responsibility with what they already have before we give them more to use. Real annual balanced budgets actually approved by Congress. A true fix to secure the future of Social Security. Things like that.

The hell with raising taxes. When has Congress ever demonstrated it can be trusted with additional revenues?

 

[Vidi]

Way to defend Barry's dumbass remarks...

Again, for those who fail to see reality: Bridges and roads are there for customers of failed businesses and successful businesses...

To credit them for the success of some while ignoring them for the failure of others is beyond stupid...

I just credited them for the failure of once successful businesses.

So again I issue the challenge: Show me an example of a successful business that NEVER utilized the commons.

Until you CAN, your argument is invalid.

Except they weren't responsible for the failure of the businesses, because ALL the businesses that had previously made use of them didn't fail. The failure of those businesses belongs to the owners/managers who didn't make the right decisions to deal with the random environmental factor that was introduced into everyone's life.

So why don't you try issuing a challenge that isn't predicated on an irrelevant straw man?

no the failed businesses had access to those roads as well is the straw man.

Because NO ONE not even Obama is denying that a busniesses success is ALSO based on the decisions of those in charge of it.

The point is that the roads and bridges and cops and firement and educate workers ALSO contributed.

You see the difference? Cumlative argument vs an either or argument? Or is your world view SO black and white that you are simply blind to the greys?

NEXT!

 

[Vidi]

I couldnt agree with you more. Which is WHY I support a MAJOR raise in taxes. WE need to pay for this. Not our children or our grandchildren...US!

ROFL! Now we get to the nut of the issue. As we all knew from the beginning, this whole tirade is just a ploy to justify raising taxes. What is the "this" we need to pay for? Most of our taxes go to provide sustenance for parasites. Very little goes to building roads and bridges. What we really need to do is cut off the parasites.

Look, since the Reagan years ( back in high school ) all I heard was how my generation was going to be the first to do worse than our parents because of the rising debt. And its only gotten worse. The Baby Boomers really fucked us, lets just be honest about that. They put everything on a credit card and pushed the bill onto the next generation...talk about taxation without representation huh?...well, that next generation is US.

It wont be easy. Hell, after world war 2 the top tax rate was 91%!!!!!!! Thats crazy, but thats what was required to get the country on track and turn it into the superpower that it became.

Now Im not saying we should go back to 91% by any means, but the difference is the "greatest generation" were willing to make the sacrifices neccessary to provide for the future of this great nation.

Are we?

Fuck off.

I'll never agree to turning over more of my paycheck to parasites. You can go stick your head on the chopping block if you like, but you aren't taking me with you if I can do anything about it.

Typical selfish America hating response.

Keep up the good work, Kingsman.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Thats not what Im saying at all.

First let me answer your "paid in full" statement. What is paid in full? Is the highway system done? Because theres an old joke here in Minnesota, we have two seasons: Winter and Highway Construction.


Which resource is "paid in full"? Which one doesnt have to constantly be renewed? Do we not need to train new fire people, police officers, teachers? Do we not constantly have to repair our infrastructure?

The previous generation maintained our society for us to inherit. We must do the same for the next.

Second, who says the government gave them their success? I certainly didnt. I did say they didnt do it all on their own. I will say that NO MAN IS AN ISLAND.

Look Im a fairly successful business owner. I own several businesses. I worked my ass off to make them successful, but in the end, I didnt do it alone. I didnt educate my workers. I didnt build the roads that my products are delvered on. I had help. And no successful business owner can HONESTLY say they did it all on their own.

My taxes will go to maintain those roads, possibly build new ones. My taxes will go to educate the next generation fo workers. My taxes will train the next generation of teachers and police officers and firemen and soldiers that will defend my freedom and the freedom of my children.

I OWE it to this country that provided me the opportunity to become successful to do what I can to provide that same opportunity to others. Because I sure as hell wouldnt have had this opportunity in Russia, or China.

Its called Patriotism. Patriotism isnt about selfish greed. Its about pledging your life, your honor and your fortune to the country you love. Either you have it, and you understand what Im talking about, or you dont, and you dont.

You're under the false impresssion that we are paying anything forward in this government. So much debt has been accumulated, that we can't even pay for the recent past. How dare you suggest you are paying a single thing forward. It is unpatriotic to burden the future with your present wants, yet that is what you are doing.

I couldnt agree with you more. Which is WHY I support a MAJOR raise in taxes. WE need to pay for this. Not our children or our grandchildren...US!

Look, since the Reagan years ( back in high school ) all I heard was how my generation was going to be the first to do worse than our parents because of the rising debt. And its only gotten worse. The Baby Boomers really fucked us, lets just be honest about that. They put everything on a credit card and pushed the bill onto the next generation...talk about taxation without representation huh?...well, that next generation is US.

It wont be easy. Hell, after world war 2 the top tax rate was 91%!!!!!!! Thats crazy, but thats what was required to get the country on track and turn it into the superpower that it became.

Now Im not saying we should go back to 91% by any means, but the difference is the "greatest generation" were willing to make the sacrifices neccessary to provide for the future of this great nation.

Are we?

We don't need "a MAJOR raise in taxes". We don't need ANY raise in taxes. What we need is disingenous, greedy assholes like you to stop hiding behind "roads and bridges" to justify trillions of dollars in spending on shit that has NOTHING to do with infrastructure, or ANY proper function of government.

Show us a MAJOR cut in frivolous spending, and then we'll talk.

 

[bripat9643]

No, times have changed. We've gone from "let's cheer and applaud the individuals in a person's life who stood by them" to "let's cheer and applaud the government that made it all possible, and give it more tax money".
.

If that was what Obama was saying, you might be right. But he didn't. So you are dead wrong (for a change <sarcasm>)

Wrong, that's exactly what Obama was doing. He was making a case for raising taxes on the rich. You have to be suffering severe brain damage not to understand what he was saying.

Oh, and once upon a time, there were a lot fewer people as stupid and gullible as you.

Says one of the most stupid and gullible people posting on the USMB. Oh, the irony..

ROFL! The irony of that is incredibly precious!

 

[Vidi]

You're under the false impresssion that we are paying anything forward in this government. So much debt has been accumulated, that we can't even pay for the recent past. How dare you suggest you are paying a single thing forward. It is unpatriotic to burden the future with your present wants, yet that is what you are doing.

I couldnt agree with you more. Which is WHY I support a MAJOR raise in taxes. WE need to pay for this. Not our children or our grandchildren...US!

Look, since the Reagan years ( back in high school ) all I heard was how my generation was going to be the first to do worse than our parents because of the rising debt. And its only gotten worse. The Baby Boomers really fucked us, lets just be honest about that. They put everything on a credit card and pushed the bill onto the next generation...talk about taxation without representation huh?...well, that next generation is US.

It wont be easy. Hell, after world war 2 the top tax rate was 91%!!!!!!! Thats crazy, but thats what was required to get the country on track and turn it into the superpower that it became.

Now Im not saying we should go back to 91% by any means, but the difference is the "greatest generation" were willing to make the sacrifices neccessary to provide for the future of this great nation.

Are we?

We don't need "a MAJOR raise in taxes". We don't need ANY raise in taxes. What we need is disingenous, greedy assholes like you to stop hiding behind "roads and bridges" to justify trillions of dollars in spending on shit that has NOTHING to do with infrastructure, or ANY proper function of government.

Show us a MAJOR cut in frivolous spending, and then we'll talk.

go back in my posts and find a single statement I made about being in favor of RAISING spending. ANYWHERE. ANY THREAD.

Go ahead.

Until you can find one, stop making assinine assumptions about who you think I am and what my political leanings may or may not be.

Go on. Find ONE statement I have made EVER in favor of raising spending!!!!!!!

 

[bripat9643]

Nonsense.

I posted the FULL TEXT earlier in the thread. I suggest you read it. Only an idiot or a pratisan hack would take the statements IN CONTEXT to mean what the radical ridiculous right would have us believe.

We've all heard what he said dozens of times. The fact that you and the other leftwing turds in this thread are trying to justify higher taxes on the wealthy using Obama's excuse only serves to reinforce the understanding of his statement that anyone who isn't totally brainwashed has.