Zone1 Are Protestants part of the Catholic Church?

[ninja007]

Did Jesus forbid repetitive prayer using Rosary Beads? Matthew 6:7

"And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. Matthew 6:7

 

[Meriweather]

Perhaps you could look through the LONG list of mortal sins and let me know what you think of the list.

Why people need not worry is addressed at the very beginning:

Mortal sin is a sin of grave matter
Mortal sin is committed with full knowledge of the sinner
Mortal sin is committed with deliberate consent of the sinner
This means that mortal sins cannot be done accidentally.

The article notes that a mortal sin must be premeditated. It also means that one commits the sin with full knowledge this sin will separate him from the goodness of God and put him in danger of eternal separation from God (hell).

In other words, one has to plan and work hard to commit a mortal sin. What say you. Today the castration of children is obviously a sin that mutilates the body and encourages deviant sexual behavior. Is it a mortal sin?

 

[Donald H]

You condemn in the churches the very thing you want the church to become. You're a fool.

What have I condemned that would cause you to say that?
For instance, what could science say about life in the belly of a whale/fish?
The main point was, Christianity is slowly and covertly throwing out Genesis on account of all the problems it presents for any of them that are trying to remain 'literal' believers in their bibles.

There is no contradiction in the Bible and nothing "anti-science."

You latch on to lies and twist the scriptures to your own destruction.

Just curious. Am I debating an Atheist? If not, what god do you believe in? You clearly believe the Christian Bible is a book of lies

I believe in none of the gods.

 

[Meriweather]

Christianity is slowly and covertly throwing out Genesis on account of all the problems it presents for any of them that are trying to remain 'literal' believers in their bibles.

No. We are not throwing out Genesis--quite the opposite. We are bringing out the true understanding of Genesis. It is one of the most marvelous books ever written--and it was written by ancient man.

 

[Donald H]

No. We are not throwing out Genesis--quite the opposite. We are bringing out the true understanding of Genesis. It is one of the most marvelous books ever written--and it was written by ancient man.

Yes, I agree that the churches are at least attempting to promote a 'different' understanding of Genesis.

'Truth' within the bibles is based on only the bibles themselves, as written by several different people who didn't agree with each other, and hence the conflicting stories.

The only other claim for 'truth' is based on nothing more than faith.

Regardless of whose 'truth' is being sought, there's no doubt that the flock's understanding of Genesis is being overhauled by the leaders of the churches.

 

[Meriweather]

Yes, I agree that the churches are at least attempting to promote a 'different' understanding of Genesis.

You misunderstand. Somewhere along the way people began quarreling over whether creation occurred in six 24-hour days. The focus of a great piece of work centered on that point. How long each 'day/period of time' was is superfluous to the story. It makes no difference. What moral truths does Genesis teach? Genesis is not a science book. It is a literary work whose themes cover the behavior and morals of mankind. A time period has nothing to do with the actions of mankind.

 

[Donald H]

You misunderstand. Somewhere along the way people began quarreling over whether creation occurred in six 24-hour days. The focus of a great piece of work centered on that point. How long each 'day/period of time' was is superfluous to the story. It makes no difference.

I disagree! It makes all the the difference in the world that it can't be interpreted to be our 24 hour days. You're referring to one of the critical points of the reason for the overhaul.

What moral truths does Genesis teach?

Some 'moral' truths perhaps but too many immoral statements overbalancing morality.

Genesis is not a science book.

No, of course not!
But Genesis is anti-science in the minds of the 60% or the 40%. You choose; those are your numbers.

It is a literary work whose themes cover the behavior and morals of mankind. A time period has nothing to do with the actions of mankind.

At least the 40% of the flock, as we have agreed upon, are interpreting Genesis as their accepted science. I would grant you that the churches are attempting to dispel that notion in nearly half of the minds of the flock.

 

[Batcat]

Why people need not worry is addressed at the very beginning:

Mortal sin is a sin of grave matter
Mortal sin is committed with full knowledge of the sinner
Mortal sin is committed with deliberate consent of the sinner
This means that mortal sins cannot be done accidentally.

The article notes that a mortal sin must be premeditated. It also means that one commits the sin with full knowledge this sin will separate him from the goodness of God and put him in danger of eternal separation from God (hell).

In other words, one has to plan and work hard to commit a mortal sin. What say you. Today the castration of children is obviously a sin that mutilates the body and encourages deviant sexual behavior. Is it a mortal sin?

You didn’t comment on the long list of mortal sins in the link I provided. I don’t think castration was in that link.

On the subject of castration…

Did Jesus Advocate Castration to Break Sex Addiction?

If you pluck out your right eye to fight lust, your left eye will pick up the slack. We need more than self-mutilation to fight this enemy.

www.desiringgod.org

The Catholic Church allowed castration at one time.

Castrating Humans: A Guide That You Must Read - Mantra Care

When people think of castrating humans, they tend to have images of livestock in their heads. Learn more about the topic in this article.

mantracare.org

***snip***

The Sistine Chapel’s Castrati​

With Italy as its epicenter, passion for castrati musical performances persisted for nearly three centuries, beginning in the mid-16th century and lasting until the early 1900s. This was a common aspect in baroque and classical music, and notable composers like Handel (1685-1759) and Mozart (1756-1791) included castrati roles in multiple operas and oratorios. The Roman Catholic Church, on the other hand, was pivotal from the start. Indeed, the first evidence comes from Italian church documents from the 1550s, and by 1558, castrati were present in the choir of the Sistine Chapel.

In reality, they were necessary after the Vatican prohibited women from singing in church choirs in the mid-16th century. Pope Sixtus V reorganized the choir of St Peter’s Basilica in Rome in 1589, expressly mentioning castrati in his bull Cum pro nostri temporali more. In response to growing resistance, Pope Leo XIII barred the Roman Catholic Church from hiring new castrati in 1878, and Pope Pius X declared an end to the practice in 1903.

Therefore at one time castration must not have always been considered a mortal sin by the Catholic Church.

 

[Meriweather]

At least the 40% of the flock, as we have agreed upon, are interpreting Genesis as their accepted science.

So what... What difference does it make?

 

[Meriweather]

The Catholic Church allowed castration at one time.

Were they correct to repent of this practice?

 

[Meriweather]

You didn’t comment on the long list of mortal sins in the link I provided.

I did comment. Take every sin on the list--and even those that did not make the list. Do they first meet that criteria. If they do not, the sin is not mortal.

 

[Donald H]

So what... What difference does it make?

None. I'm happy to have made my point.

 

[Batcat]

I did comment. Take every sin on the list--and even those that did not make the list. Do they first meet that criteria. If they do not, the sin is not mortal.

I understand God doesn’t change.

Top 13 Bible Verses-God Never Changes - Everyday Servant

Top 13 Bible Verses-God Never Changes … In a world that changes from moment to moment… In a world where new challenges face us every day… Does God change too? Can we really trust that He will be the same today and tomorrow? What does the Bible say? Read these Top 13 Bible Verses-God Never […]

everydayservant.com

So I doubt God’s view on castration has ever changed. However the Catholic Church has changed its views on that subject. Once it was acceptable but now it is a mortal sin.

 

[Meriweather]

None. I'm happy to have made my point.

Grin. Is that what you did?

 

[Meriweather]

However the Catholic Church has changed its views on that subject. Once it was acceptable but now it is a mortal sin.

Rather, "Now it might be a mortal sin." Keep in mind back in the day, however mistaken it was, the belief was that the castration was for the glory of God. Therefore, was it mortal? Did they perform castrations knowing it would separate them from God for all eternity?

 

[Donald H]

Grin. Is that what you did?

In fact, you made the point for me. You elaborated on the 60/40 split among Catholics pertaining on the 'literal' belief in the bible and Genesis. And you volunteered information that there was an overhaul of 'Genesis' in progress.

Do you have any other argument you wish to pursue with me?

 

[Meriweather]

And you volunteered information that there was an overhaul of 'Genesis' in progress.

Since no overhaul is happening, I certainly did not volunteer any such thing. I am saying those of us who are involved in religious instruction do not focus on how long it took God to create. We focus on the morals and themes in Genesis. This is not an "overhaul"--it is a continuation of the focus on how we present Genesis.

Perhaps it is atheists and news media whose only interest is the difference that some prefer to think in literal 24-hour days, and other prefer to think in time period days.

 

[Donald H]

Since no overhaul is happening, I certainly did not volunteer any such thing. I am saying those of us who are involved in religious instruction do not focus on how long it took God to create. We focus on the morals and themes in Genesis. This is not an "overhaul"--it is a continuation of the focus on how we present Genesis.

Perhaps it is atheists and news media whose only interest is the difference that some prefer to think in literal 24-hour days, and other prefer to think in time period days.

By your own admission it is 40% of Catholics who prefer to think in terms of a 24 hour day.

I can't speak for all atheists as we aren't being led by any common understanding other than our not accepting the supernatural. I suppose that it's likely that the media is consistent with your proposed 60/40 split? Or maybe not?

I'm not suggesting an overhaul of Genesis by the Catholic church nearly as much as your explanation of the flock being schooled in a common understanding of Genesis that can finally be found acceptable.

I'll call it an overhaul of Genesis by the church. One example of that being so in my opinion, is that the flock is expected to learn to reject the literal meaning of a day.

do not focus on how long it took God to create. We focus on the morals and themes in Genesis.

40% have also focused on the time involved. Ask them!

 

[Batcat]

Rather, "Now it might be a mortal sin." Keep in mind back in the day, however mistaken it was, the belief was that the castration was for the glory of God. Therefore, was it mortal? Did they perform castrations knowing it would separate them from God for all eternity?

Obviously the Church changes but not God.

 

[DGS49]

There are several core teachings of the RC church that protestants reject.

• The primacy of the Pope,
• Transubstantiation,
• Forgiveness of sins by a priest,
• Purgatory (which the RC church STILL believes in),
• Prayer for the dead,
• Dogma points relating to the Blessed Mother,
• Sainthood (as the Church sees it).

On most of the major stuff, Lutherans and many branches of the Church of England are similar, but the exceptions are deal breakers and would definitely prevent any rapprochement.

If the Church would get its figurative head out of its ass w/r/t married priests and women priests, that would help things along. But the Church will never accept homosexual relations - and of course the homo lifestyle - as morally acceptable. If a homo wants to be a Catholic in good standing, like every other single person, s/he must remain celibate.