Zone1 Do most Jews believe they killed Jesus?

[norwegen]

Yes. I think Jesus was trying to avoid the rebellion that would destroy the Jews.

Well, he was crucified before the rebellion. But according to the NT, he promised to come for the rebellion. To judge.

 

[ding]

What if they taught you it’s not ok?
I understand that you cannot connect with the concept of divorce because it’s forbidden in the NT.

Then I would applaud them for their logic. After all, God loves logic. He is logic, among other things.

I absolutely can connect with the concept of divorce even if it is in the NT and the dogma taught by my faith. Do you know why? No one is perfect. They sin. I sin. Hopefully we learn from our mistakes and progress. To me the real question is how we - as a society, a community, a neighborhood or a family - respond to other people's mistakes. Why is that the real question for me? Because I can only control what I do.

 

[ding]

Obviously the RCC did not count countless murders as being forbidden by the Big 10.

That's nice. I hope that gave you some joy and comfort to tell me that.

 

[Indeependent]

Then I would applaud them for their logic. After all, God loves logic. He is logic, among other things.

I absolutely can connect with the concept of divorce even if it is in the NT and the dogma taught by my faith. Do you know why? No one is perfect. They sin. I sin. Hopefully we learn from our mistakes and progress. To me the real question is how we - as a society, a community, a neighborhood or a family - respond to other people's mistakes. Why is that the real question for me? Because I can only control what I do.

The only way to respond to wrong doing is to do right.

 

[Indeependent]

That's nice. I hope that gave you some joy and comfort to tell me that.

Not at all.
2 Bibles filled with “peace” wrought the 2 most violent religions in history.
One Bible that was honest about human behavior wrought the least violent religion on earth.

 

[ding]

You’re counting 2 major religions that don’t believe in Jesus.

She didn't mention Jesus. She mentioned faith.

 

[Meriweather]

A Roman soldier's pack weighed nearly 60 pounds.

Yes, I know. Still, Jesus' main audience were the poor in rural areas. People were poor, and despite that--perhaps because of it--Jesus was encouraging hospitality--a hallmark of Judaism. Many Jews lost their land to Rome and became peasants working on land that was once theirs. I imagine Jews were more likely asked to crop burdens for their landlords than a pack for a Roman soldier. The main point is that everyone needed help, so lend a hand. And yes, if a Roman soldier asked someone to carry their pack, help them out.

Having a daughter in the Army who has had to carry such a pack, I can sincerely thank Jesus for asking people to give soldiers a hand--if that was what he was doing. I tend to think he was discussing giving a hand to those in need in one's own community.

I remember being strong and pregnant, carrying a toddler and a bag of groceries. Easily. A young man came up to me and told me he was going to carry my groceries. I smiled and said I was fine--having no problem at all. He said, "Ma'am, if my mother should happen to see or hear I didn't help a pregnant lady with her groceries, I had better not go home. Because she sees and hears everything." I knew absolutely, Jesus, would definitely approve of that young man, who didn't even bother waiting to be asked.

Hospitality.

 

[surada]

Well, he was crucified before the rebellion. But according to the NT, he promised to come for the rebellion. To judge.

Yes he was crucified before the rebellion, but the Jews were divided against each other long before open rebellion. Essenes moved to the wilderness.. zealots opposed the Herodians... Saducees and Pharisees vied for control. Some Jews prospered under the Romans.

 

[ding]

You can believe that what you are doing is being done in spite of the fact that you know God exists and is all knowing.
Check Nimrod who committed pe-shah to spite God.

My relationship with God is very much like my relationship with a best friend or spouse. We don't always agree but we always work it out The major difference being he's always right and I'm always wrong. I eventually come around to His way of thinking but not without a lot of griping about it first. I guess I'll have to wait to find out if He thinks I do things to spite Him. It's certainly worth considering though.

One thing is certain though, I won't have to hear the Job 40 speech because I don't question Him. I just don't always obey Him.

 

[Meriweather]

You’re counting 2 major religions that don’t believe in Jesus.

Probably more than that. When referencing people of faith, I include all of any faith. I am not about to exclude Hindus, Taoists, or for that matter, anyone who focuses on the Great Spirit. People who believe understand that belief has many facets. People are not cookie stamps of one another.

 

[norwegen]

Yes he was crucified before the rebellion, but the Jews were divided against each other long before open rebellion. Essenes moved to the wilderness.. zealots opposed the Herodians... Saducees and Pharisees vied for control. Some Jews prospered under the Romans.

yea, okay.

 

[Meriweather]

I guess adultery didn't mean the same thing back then. It's a wonder it ever made it as a commandment.

Perhaps not the same thing, but surely something. From what I understand, if Uriah went away and died in battle, the divorce he gave his wife would have begun at the time of the writ. So...even though David had sex with Bathsheba before Uriah's death, upon Uriah's death, that act was covered by the divorce. In other words (an analogy), David went to his accountant and cleverly found a loophole.

By all accounts David learned--or at least felt--he hadn't been so clever after all.

 

[Meriweather]

Truth is I just feel sorry for you.

Thank you, I am honored you think of me at all.

 

[ding]

Perhaps not the same thing, but surely something. From what I understand, if Uriah went away and died in battle, the divorce he gave his wife would have begun at the time of the writ. So...even though David had sex with Bathsheba before Uriah's death, upon Uriah's death, that act was covered by the divorce. In other words (an analogy), David went to his accountant and cleverly found a loophole.

By all accounts David learned--or at least felt--he hadn't been so clever after all.

Sounds like the first recorded case of legal positivism (i.e. following the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law).

 

[surada]

Perhaps not the same thing, but surely something. From what I understand, if Uriah went away and died in battle, the divorce he gave his wife would have begun at the time of the writ. So...even though David had sex with Bathsheba before Uriah's death, upon Uriah's death, that act was covered by the divorce. In other words (an analogy), David went to his accountant and cleverly found a loophole.

By all accounts David learned--or at least felt--he hadn't been so clever after all.

Are you kidding me?

Bathsheba | Description & Biblical Account

Bathsheba, also spelled Bethsabee, in the Hebrew Bible (2 Samuel 11, 12; 1 Kings 1, 2), wife of Uriah the Hittite; she later became one of the wives of King David and the mother of King Solomon. Bathsheba was a daughter of Eliam and was probably of noble birth. A beautiful woman, she became...

www.britannica.com

 

[Meriweather]

Sounds like the first recorded case of legal positivism (i.e. following the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law).

Well, I don't know if it was the first case. What I find interesting is that many people who missed the spirit of the law, still want to grab hold of some part of the law because they still understand the value of that Law. They reach for the letter of the law. A case of a part of a loaf being better than none at all.

 

[ding]

Well, I don't know if it was the first case. What I find interesting is that many people who missed the spirit of the law, still want to grab hold of some part of the law because they still understand the value of that Law. They reach for the letter of the law. A case of a part of a loaf being better than none at all.

I'm a little more cynical than that. I believe people don't care about the spirit of the law and only do things for their self interest.

 

[alang1216]

Exactly. Because no passage in the NT relates such sentiment.

The NT was politically correct. Christianity had to live with Roman rule and to have your religion's founder know as an anti-Roman revolutionary was a bad idea. You can see this evolution in the NT. The Romans are incrementally exonerated for Jesus' execution while the Jews are incrementally blamed.

What you think is irrelevant.

Not to me.

The NT divides the Jews of the era: some are sheep; some are goats. Jews are the people Jesus came to minister to.

Ironic that the religion of Jesus became the religion about Jesus.

Not much of a threat to the Roman Empire, then, was he..

Why take chances or pass up a chance to make an example.

The 10th Legion was deployed in Judea.

Temporarily to put down a rebellion and probably wasn't there in Jesus' time. It went where it was needed.

 

[hobelim]

Thank you, I am honored you think of me at all.

Don't thank me, thank God.

If I didn't understand the teachings of Jesus about the will of God I wouldn't think of you at all much less have the substance to alert you to your error and provide you with the way out of hell and into the kingdom of heaven while still alive on earth. If you want to show some real gratitude, do yourself a favor; be silent and purify and refine your own mind, and cleanse it from every work of the devil or devils that have misled you. Until then you beliefs are really not kosher for anyone.

 

[surada]

The NT was politically correct. Christianity had to live with Roman rule and to have your religion's founder know as an anti-Roman revolutionary was a bad idea. You can see this evolution in the NT. The Romans are incrementally exonerated for Jesus' execution while the Jews are incrementally blamed.


Not to me.


Ironic that the religion of Jesus became the religion about Jesus.


Why take chances or pass up a chance to make an example.


Temporarily to put down a rebellion and probably wasn't there in Jesus' time. It went where it was needed.

Where's the evidence that Jesus was anti Roman?