Holy crap - this has to stop!

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It won't stop and there's no way we can ever reason with the republicans on anything.

When they think infrastructure is bad and education for our children needs to be done away with there's really no middle ground. This country is in a lot of trouble.

There's an amazing amount of middle ground if people can stop yelling long enough to listen. And move away from their partisan corners.

Tax reform
Health care
Immigration
On this I agree. But the left has got to stop with rhetoric like "White privilege" or "We just saw a White lash." The classic, "Trump is not my President." Also, Trumps health care plan will not "kill people."
 
Yes people do need to listen... but there is a reason why people often don't listen, and that's because many cops still follow a militaristic style and use profiling to stop people, which then causes the people they stop to not trust the cops and not listen.

If a person is stopped because of profiling, how would they know that? Yes, they do use militaristic styles to get people to listen and understand they mean business. If you don't agree with a police officers demands or attitude, you take that up after the fact, not during. You can file a complaint with the officers supervisor. You can contact the Mayor of that city. You can contact your local news media. But what you don't do is challenge the officer in the street. That's what gets people killed.

If you don't listen to the orders of a police officer, it's nobody's fault but your own. If you are harmed because you didn't listen to the orders of the officer, you brought that upon yourself.


If you are a white middle class male you have no way of understanding the anger a person gets when they are pulled over or stopped on the street by a law enforcement official for profiling.

You also don't understand the difference between military style and professionalism. And no, no unarmed person deserves to be killed by a cop for questioning a cop's motives. There are too many less than lethal alternatives out there for that to happen as often as it does. Almost every cop these days not only carries a gun, but a taser as well.

I saw a startling statistic the other day. Do you have any idea how many unarmed people have been killed by cops in the entire country of Iceland in its history? 1.

I'm all about police officer safety... I've always defended police officer's and how dangerous the job is. Hell the most dangerous calls for a police officer to respond to isn't a robbery, or an assault, it's a domestic disturbance. Hell, look at the Keyhoe Brothers traffic stop in Ohio year's ago and recent ambush shootings, but something has to change, and that change is that Law Enforcement officers have to become professional, fair, and just... and in turn more people will regain trust in them and start to respond better.

If you REALLY care about the situation, you'll read more and do more actual research instead of just getting pissed on a forum. This is a much deeper subject than you realize.

I don't get pissed. If I came here to get pissed off, that would be the dumbest thing to do.

Bad news for you, I am white and I have been profiled several times in my life. I just listened to authority and did exactly as they said. Never had a problem.

Nobody got killed for questioning a cops motives. People got killed by putting an officer in a precarious situation which is why they have police procedure in the first place; it protects the suspect and the officer at the same time.

When a police officer tells you to freeze, it's for that reason. When a police officer asks for identification, it's for that reason. When a police officer asks you to sit down on the curb, it's for that reason. When a police officer orders you to put your hands on the dash board, it's for that reason.

There is no law that states a person has to be armed to use deadly force against them. In my state, if somebody gets pissed off at me, approaches my car, busts my window out to get even for some road rage, I have the legal right to use my firearm against that person even if he's not armed himself. I have the same right to use deadly force against a person who attacks me and not armed. That's why George Zimmerman is a free man today.

If a private citizen has these rights, why should a police officer not?

Ok, obviously you don't get it, and you think you know everything about law enforcement from personal experience. Good luck with that.

Correct, I don't get it. I don't get how anybody can ignore a simple solution to a simple problem.


Exactly, you don't get it. Glad you can admit that. ;)

I'm going to ask a serious question, how many actual books that have to do with law enforcement or criminal justice have you read in your life time?
 
It won't stop and there's no way we can ever reason with the republicans on anything.

When they think infrastructure is bad and education for our children needs to be done away with there's really no middle ground. This country is in a lot of trouble.

There's an amazing amount of middle ground if people can stop yelling long enough to listen. And move away from their partisan corners.

Tax reform
Health care
Immigration
On this I agree. But the left has got to stop with rhetoric like "White privilege" or "We just saw a White lash." The classic, "Trump is not my President." Also, Trumps health care plan will not "kill people."

Mind you though, we had Obama "death panels".
 
It won't stop and there's no way we can ever reason with the republicans on anything.

When they think infrastructure is bad and education for our children needs to be done away with there's really no middle ground. This country is in a lot of trouble.
Outright nonsense................our side knows that much of our infrastructure needs repair...........but we don't trust the political hacks in the Government with money to fix it anymore.......every time money is allocated they waste the living hell out of it.

We spend more on education than ANY COUNTRY ON EARTH...........with shitty results.........................at which point will you understand that throwing more money at it might not fix the problem.....................because we throw more money at it than the rest of the world............common core...........the DUMBING DOWN OF A NATION.
We saw what happened to that TRILLION Obama scamed out of the country for "infrastructure"

You lie.
Shovel ready jobs...shoveling money to Democratic districts who shoveled it to companies that got the contracts...then kicked some of it upstairs as a thank you.
 
It won't stop and there's no way we can ever reason with the republicans on anything.

When they think infrastructure is bad and education for our children needs to be done away with there's really no middle ground. This country is in a lot of trouble.

There's an amazing amount of middle ground if people can stop yelling long enough to listen. And move away from their partisan corners.

Tax reform
Health care
Immigration
On this I agree. But the left has got to stop with rhetoric like "White privilege" or "We just saw a White lash." The classic, "Trump is not my President." Also, Trumps health care plan will not "kill people."

Mind you though, we had Obama "death panels".
Point well taken.
 
Infrastructure is another area where we ALL should have commonality and we all should make a priority....
 
It won't stop and there's no way we can ever reason with the republicans on anything.

When they think infrastructure is bad and education for our children needs to be done away with there's really no middle ground. This country is in a lot of trouble.

There's an amazing amount of middle ground if people can stop yelling long enough to listen. And move away from their partisan corners.

Tax reform
Health care
Immigration
On this I agree. But the left has got to stop with rhetoric like "White privilege" or "We just saw a White lash." The classic, "Trump is not my President." Also, Trumps health care plan will not "kill people."

Mind you though, we had Obama "death panels".
Point well taken.
But bear this in mind. GOP controls the government and Democrats need to accept it. Allow border security, allow tax reform, and allow health care reform understanding that you are the minority party and can only get so much.
 
Infrastructure is another area where we ALL should have commonality and we all should make a priority....
I have listed many projects that need repair in this country..........time and time again........................but only if they account for any dang penny of it...............

Then get attacked by the wacks like Mathew saying we are against it all the time.............Same damned rhetoric Democratic politicians do and the media.........

What is my reaction to that when they freaking lie....................Normally I flip them off..................but that is just me.

Perhaps they can stop lying their little asses off...............then I might respect what they have to say.
 
trumpishitler.jpg

 
Reagan and Tip O'Neil would fight until 5PM then Reagan would have him to the White House for drinks and Irish jokes.
 
Infrastructure is another area where we ALL should have commonality and we all should make a priority....
That was literally one of Trump's largest campaign promises.

Trump voters mostly voted FOR infrastructure.
 
It is people...not parties. People have gone nuts. I am so tired and weary from it all.

I'm just plain angry. And DISGUSTED. Have we devolved to our lowest common denominators? Empowered the most hateful amongst us? Sanctified mob mentalities?

The design of having the same 2 parties lock up total political control for so long GUARANTEES we are headed for the "lowest common denominator". It's that discussion you and I have had before about NOTHING being unethical, wrong or evil anymore --- Because "THEY" did it first. You see it in every USMB "news" thread. Can't bash a Dem without the first opposing post pulling up the fact that Repub did it first -- or worse. And once that equivalency is established --- there's NO CRIME. No sin, no guilt, no consequences.

Well 100 or so years later --- apparently you can shoot CongressCritters on a baseball field and have 15 activists pretending to be journalists saying it was justified or Karma or whatever. I'm watching this 2 way finger-pointing destroy my country because the 2 dynasties are in a death match and APPARENTLY are willing to pump up the rate that we're "circling the drain"..

Country NEEDED a fucking "intervention" -- NOT a choice between 2 dynasty parties offering polarizing candidates. But America wants WINNERS.... NOW --- we're ALL losers.....
 
It won't stop and there's no way we can ever reason with the republicans on anything.

When they think infrastructure is bad and education for our children needs to be done away with there's really no middle ground. This country is in a lot of trouble.

There's an amazing amount of middle ground if people can stop yelling long enough to listen. And move away from their partisan corners.

Tax reform
Health care
Immigration
On this I agree. But the left has got to stop with rhetoric like "White privilege" or "We just saw a White lash." The classic, "Trump is not my President." Also, Trumps health care plan will not "kill people."
That will never stop, imho. Divide and conquer is their MO so they have to keep going with the divisive rhetoric, ensuring their pet groups feel hard done by and believing they are victims. They just can't help themselves and they have absolutely no respect for democracy unless they win.
The time to nip all this in the bud was when the rioting started because Trump won and they lost, but neither Obama nor Hillary said a word to dissuade them.
Many of the lefties here thought it was just fine too, even though it was obvious where all this would lead. So many lefties have no respect, no dignity and no honour.

IMG_2216.JPG
 
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Infrastructure is another area where we ALL should have commonality and we all should make a priority....

I'm willing to pay an extra 15 cents per gallon to make it happen, but it must all be spent on infrastructure. No more paying more to union companies to do the job simply because they are union. Lowest bidder gets the job.
 
It won't stop and there's no way we can ever reason with the republicans on anything.

When they think infrastructure is bad and education for our children needs to be done away with there's really no middle ground. This country is in a lot of trouble.

There's an amazing amount of middle ground if people can stop yelling long enough to listen. And move away from their partisan corners.

Tax reform
Health care
Immigration
On this I agree. But the left has got to stop with rhetoric like "White privilege" or "We just saw a White lash." The classic, "Trump is not my President." Also, Trumps health care plan will not "kill people."

Mind you though, we had Obama "death panels".
Point well taken.
But bear this in mind. GOP controls the government and Democrats need to accept it. Allow border security, allow tax reform, and allow health care reform understanding that you are the minority party and can only get so much.

Up to a point I agree but - it's a toughie. For example, they still need to stand up for their constituents. They need to pick the battles that matter - ie, health care reform matters a lot - a whole lot in terms of people's lives affected.

The SCOTUS pick matters, but it's a pointless battle to fight - Trump's pick was a good one, respected by both sides - they should have given him a tough questioning and then voted him in. What I'm afraid of is they are practicing the same blanket obstructionism that the Republicans did as a minority party - obstruct everything because it's Trump's (or Obama's). That gets us nowhere. The Democrats need to pick and choose and they need to work with the Republicans on those areas where there is commonality.

Take immigration - everyone agrees on the need for better border security; everyone agrees on the need to deport illegals who commit violent crimes. Better border security doesn't have to be a wall - technology gives us many new and advanced means of improving security. Deporting illegals who commit violent crimes shouldn't be held up forever and they certainly should not be released - deportation should be decided within no more than a month. So right there - Democrats could work with the Republicans.

Healthcare - from my point of view it is so poisonous, I'm not sure I see a cooperative path forward and the Republicans have to be willing to extend an olive branch and ask for a cooperative fix.
 
Seriously. This toxic partisan political culture is poisoning civil society.

What the hell is wrong with us?

The left and the right pulling hair and screeching their bumpersticker slogans and broad brush pig ignorant partisan blamegaming? What's wrong with us?

I'm no youngster. I've never seen such a dangerous ambient.

We have someone shooting at one of our few remaining bipartisan non political fun charitable events because he wants to kill a bunch of (insert political party).

The rhetoric flooding the country is poisoning us. And no one wants to take responsibility for stepping up and saying "enough already". For changing it.

Our representatives are colleagues first and foremost. Political opponents second. They recognize it. That violence against one is violence against the others and against our very institutions. Why are we unable to recognize that?

Yes it is, but the problem is too many people like the partisan political bullshit, and won't ever see it disappear. They understand this way, if the US were to change voting, increase political parties, then people would have to count above 2, which might be quite difficult (I'm being sarcastic, of course). The right has it better, they can get presidents without a majority, they're never going to give that up, even if it means the country declines, mainly because they'll refuse to accept the decline (just like the Brexit people in the UK).
 
Infrastructure is another area where we ALL should have commonality and we all should make a priority....

I'm willing to pay an extra 15 cents per gallon to make it happen, but it must all be spent on infrastructure. No more paying more to union companies to do the job simply because they are union. Lowest bidder gets the job.
No cause theyll waste it on choo choos to nowhere
 
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