"I Had an Abortion"

[Luddly Neddite]

rw's are just sick.
They say they don't want any responsibility and yet they want control.
And, if that's not sick enough, now they're saying a fetus isn't worth any more than an egg or an acorn. And, they vote for really sick fucks too. They threw a fit at the teenager who carried her dead baby around with her but praised Santorum for doing the same thing. And, of course, its okay with them that Karen Santorum had an abortion.

When you think these idiots can't get any worse, they trot out another radical religious right wing nutter.

Is there any part of our lives the rw's don't want to control? How big is their government gonna get before they stop peeking in bedroom windows?

Disgusting creeps.


.

 

[Pauli007001]

rw's are just sick.
They say they don't want any responsibility and yet they want control.
And, if that's not sick enough, now they're saying a fetus isn't worth any more than an egg or an acorn. And, they vote for really sick fucks too. They threw a fit at the teenager who carried her dead baby around with her but praised Santorum for doing the same thing. And, of course, its okay with them that Karen Santorum had an abortion.

When you think these idiots can't get any worse, they trot out another radical religious right wing nutter.

Is there any part of our lives the rw's don't want to control? How big is their government gonna get before they stop peeking in bedroom windows?

Disgusting creeps.


.

You don't half make up some shite do you!!
JoeB131 made the acorn egg comparison.
Santorum murdered a live born baby then went shoplifting with the dead body in his bag ?
You really are a liar.
You even lied to cover up for your idol, Peter Tatchill!!

 

[koshergrl]

rw's are just sick.
They say they don't want any responsibility and yet they want control.
And, if that's not sick enough, now they're saying a fetus isn't worth any more than an egg or an acorn. And, they vote for really sick fucks too. They threw a fit at the teenager who carried her dead baby around with her but praised Santorum for doing the same thing. And, of course, its okay with them that Karen Santorum had an abortion.

When you think these idiots can't get any worse, they trot out another radical religious right wing nutter.

Is there any part of our lives the rw's don't want to control? How big is their government gonna get before they stop peeking in bedroom windows?

Disgusting creeps.


.

Seriously, we pray every single day that you will please keep your depraved lifestyles in your own bedrooms, and your hands in your own pockets.

You may start any day now. We support you fully in that endeavor.

 

[Vox]

Not that this applies to anyone here ... oh wait, it does ...

Pope Francis at Mass calls for greater openness
---
October 17, 2013: If a Christian “becomes a disciple of the ideology, he has lost the faith.”
This was the theme of Pope Francis’ homily during his Thursday morning Mass at the Domus Sanctae Marthae. During his homily, the Pope warned Christians against behaving as though the “key is in [their] pocket, and the door closed.” He reiterated that without prayer, one abandons the faith and descends into ideology and moralism. “Woe to you, scholars of the law! You have taken away the key of knowledge!” (Luke 11: 52)
...
“The faith passes, so to speak, through a distiller and becomes ideology. And ideology does not beckon [people]. In ideologies there is not Jesus: in his tenderness, his love, his meekness. And ideologies are rigid, always. Of every sign: rigid. And when a Christian becomes a disciple of the ideology, he has lost the faith: he is no longer a disciple of Jesus, he is a disciple of this attitude of thought…
---

This is relevant to this discussion..how?

If the left loses the discussion they turn their arguments to Jesus.
Or Pope

Since they are ignorant on both the diversion is always pretty hilarious.
But they can't understand why everybody will be laughing at them.Or ignore.

 

[emilynghiem]

An egg is not a chicken
an acorn is not a tree
A fetus is not a baby...

Whoa, there Joe. I see what you were trying to say but this analogy went off track.
You would flunk the SAT with analogies like this.

SEED
if the "acorn is a seed," then the closest human equivalent is like the "sperm" maybe?

so you could say a sperm is not a complete human and get away with that.
I would agree with that and so would most people.

EGG
the human "egg" is not the same as the "fetus"
so equating EGG and FETUS was too far, different stages that are clearly distinct.

ACORN : TREE
SEED : PLANT
SPERM? : HUMAN
not perfect but closer to making the same point

EGG --> CHICK formed inside the EGG --> CHICK outside egg --> grown CHICKEN
EGG --> fetus inside the womb --> baby outside the womb --> adult human

The way one person advised a group of prochoice and prolife advocates
to avoid any of this "baby/fetus" argument is to use the word
"INDIVIDUAL"

that it is shown from conception, those DNA couplings and combination
are UNIQUE TO THAT INDIVIDUAL

I don't think anyone talks about acorns/trees, seeds/plants, in terms of "individuals"

with eggs/chickens, and other animals, many ppl do believe individual animals
have souls, and it does indeed impose suffering to take life from animals who
are aware and have fear response to killing and dying. it has been shown that
ingesting the enzymes released during stress in animals killed is adverse to human health.

so there is some impact and effect in animals that we dismiss similar to prolife arguments.

NOTE: to refrain from judgmentally charged language such as "sin" or "crime"
if you look at these things in terms of "suffering"
YES it causes suffering to kill chickens for food and
YES it causes suffering to experience abortion as well as unwanted pregnancy, unwanted children, etc.

if we focused on reducing the root causes of abuse and suffering (no matter which we thought were worse than others)
we would solve a lot more problems across the board, even if we disagree on them individually.

 

[mamooth]

Not that this applies to anyone here ... oh wait, it does ...

Pope Francis at Mass calls for greater openness
---
October 17, 2013: If a Christian “becomes a disciple of the ideology, he has lost the faith.”
This was the theme of Pope Francis’ homily during his Thursday morning Mass at the Domus Sanctae Marthae. During his homily, the Pope warned Christians against behaving as though the “key is in [their] pocket, and the door closed.” He reiterated that without prayer, one abandons the faith and descends into ideology and moralism. “Woe to you, scholars of the law! You have taken away the key of knowledge!” (Luke 11: 52)
...
“The faith passes, so to speak, through a distiller and becomes ideology. And ideology does not beckon [people]. In ideologies there is not Jesus: in his tenderness, his love, his meekness. And ideologies are rigid, always. Of every sign: rigid. And when a Christian becomes a disciple of the ideology, he has lost the faith: he is no longer a disciple of Jesus, he is a disciple of this attitude of thought…
---

This is relevant to this discussion..how?

You and Vox are worshiping anti-abortion ideology. The Pope is pointing out how you have become disciples of ideology, and thus lost the faith.

 

[emilynghiem]

Not that this applies to anyone here ... oh wait, it does ...

Pope Francis at Mass calls for greater openness
---
October 17, 2013: If a Christian “becomes a disciple of the ideology, he has lost the faith.”
This was the theme of Pope Francis’ homily during his Thursday morning Mass at the Domus Sanctae Marthae. During his homily, the Pope warned Christians against behaving as though the “key is in [their] pocket, and the door closed.” He reiterated that without prayer, one abandons the faith and descends into ideology and moralism. “Woe to you, scholars of the law! You have taken away the key of knowledge!” (Luke 11: 52)
...
“The faith passes, so to speak, through a distiller and becomes ideology. And ideology does not beckon [people]. In ideologies there is not Jesus: in his tenderness, his love, his meekness. And ideologies are rigid, always. Of every sign: rigid. And when a Christian becomes a disciple of the ideology, he has lost the faith: he is no longer a disciple of Jesus, he is a disciple of this attitude of thought…
---

This is relevant to this discussion..how?

You and Vox are worshiping anti-abortion ideology. The Pope is pointing out how you have become disciples of ideology, and thus lost the faith.

Close, I would explain the key difference is FORGIVENESS

I have friends that may well be more prolife and antiabortion than even Koshergirl
but as long as they are FORGIVING we can work together to eradicate abortion
by prevention by free will and educated choices, and without making it illegal or anti-choice by law.

I cannot blame the "antichoice" people who are unforgiving about it, fearbased, etc.
because of the hypocrisy on the prochoice side that even scares ME TO DEATH.

both sides would have to forgive and quit fearing each other, or you can hardly blame one without blaming the other. I forgive both, but most ppl don't. They fear each other, it's sad.

 

[Vox]

Not that this applies to anyone here ... oh wait, it does ...

Pope Francis at Mass calls for greater openness
---
October 17, 2013: If a Christian “becomes a disciple of the ideology, he has lost the faith.”
This was the theme of Pope Francis’ homily during his Thursday morning Mass at the Domus Sanctae Marthae. During his homily, the Pope warned Christians against behaving as though the “key is in [their] pocket, and the door closed.” He reiterated that without prayer, one abandons the faith and descends into ideology and moralism. “Woe to you, scholars of the law! You have taken away the key of knowledge!” (Luke 11: 52)
...
“The faith passes, so to speak, through a distiller and becomes ideology. And ideology does not beckon [people]. In ideologies there is not Jesus: in his tenderness, his love, his meekness. And ideologies are rigid, always. Of every sign: rigid. And when a Christian becomes a disciple of the ideology, he has lost the faith: he is no longer a disciple of Jesus, he is a disciple of this attitude of thought…
---

This is relevant to this discussion..how?

You and Vox are worshiping anti-abortion ideology. The Pope is pointing out how you have become disciples of ideology, and thus lost the faith.

and what makes you think Pope's words are relevant for either of us?
Maybe I am Jewish and Koshergirl is Protestant? Or I am Orthodox and she is Buddhist?
referring to religious authorities by the leftards who abhor religion is ridiculous and if you think that nobody is going to call you on such blatant hypocrisy you must be living in a la-la land.

Not to even mention that neither of prolife people discussing on this thread have ever mentioned religious perspective to the murder in utero.

 

[Vox]

This is relevant to this discussion..how?

You and Vox are worshiping anti-abortion ideology. The Pope is pointing out how you have become disciples of ideology, and thus lost the faith.

Close, I would explain the key difference is FORGIVENESS

I have friends that may well be more prolife and antiabortion than even Koshergirl
but as long as they are FORGIVING we can work together to eradicate abortion
by prevention by free will and educated choices, and without making it illegal or anti-choice by law.

I cannot blame the "antichoice" people who are unforgiving about it, fearbased, etc.
because of the hypocrisy on the prochoice side that even scares ME TO DEATH.

both sides would have to forgive and quit fearing each other, or you can hardly blame one without blaming the other. I forgive both, but most ppl don't. They fear each other, it's sad.

until the militant angry vaginas with vocal cords are denying that abortion is MURDER - there is absolutely no ground not only for forgiveness, but for mere cooperation.
You don't forgive a non-repentant murderer.
it is pertinent both from the secular and religious perspective ( though I totally object to bringing religion into the simple discussion of life and death).

but if you do - in all religions sin to be forgiven first has to be recognized as sin.
So far the sinners not only deny it is sin, they flaunt around their disgusting approval of the murder and their own murders as well.

 

[emilynghiem]

rw's are just sick.
They say they don't want any responsibility and yet they want control.
And, if that's not sick enough, now they're saying a fetus isn't worth any more than an egg or an acorn. And, they vote for really sick fucks too. They threw a fit at the teenager who carried her dead baby around with her but praised Santorum for doing the same thing. And, of course, its okay with them that Karen Santorum had an abortion.

When you think these idiots can't get any worse, they trot out another radical religious right wing nutter.

Is there any part of our lives the rw's don't want to control? How big is their government gonna get before they stop peeking in bedroom windows?

Disgusting creeps.


.

OK Luddly so again:
how is it OK for federal govt to mandate health care and exclude individual choice
instead of states and people voting or choosing their own directly?

explain away, please!

do I need to post a gofundme fundraiser and pay money for a good answer out of you?
that's only fair. if it takes 10 hours or 10 days to come up with an answer,
you could get paid for your consulting time or writing/advice.

Is there some place to post a bet. Either that I can pay you to explain these conflicting
statements, or pay someone who can explain or talk you out of it, whichever works.
I would love to see a consistent answer come out of this, and don't mind
raising money to pay you to resolve it or someone else who can do a better job.

If they can explain your view to me where we both agree that it makes sense,
or that person can explain my view to you where we both agree, that's fine

but as is, this isn't making any sense at all to me. I would like an explanation of
how you see it this way and don't see a contradiction with it. I came very close,
but if you don't agree with my explanations, those aren't the ones explaining your views.

 

[emilynghiem]

until the militant angry vaginas with vocal cords are denying that abortion is MURDER - there is absolutely no ground not only for forgiveness, but for mere cooperation.
You don't forgive a non-repentant murderer.
it is pertinent both from the secular and religious perspective ( though I totally object to bringing religion into the simple discussion of life and death).

but if you do - in all religions sin to be forgiven first has to be recognized as sin.
So far the sinners not only deny it is sin, they flaunt around their disgusting approval of the murder and their own murders as well.

Hi Vox
I think you mean something different by forgiveness then.

people forgive murderers all the time, who still face the punishment for their crimes.

emotional/spiritual forgiveness is SEPARATE from physical consequences etc.
we still "owe restitution" for wrongs we commit on others, even if we're "forgiven"

Does this make sense?

Also, I understand what you mean that "people aren't forgiven until they forgive"
I find that people who don't forgive others, project that fear, and then find they aren't forgiven either!

It becomes a vicious trap. At some point when we accept God's forgiveness, then we free both sides from being trapped in mutual fear.
So perfect love casts out all fear. And once one side forgives, the other does too, and the truth can be understood and received more fully.

2. as for prochoice prolife

even if ppl don't see it in terms of sin and murder, life at conception,
just stopping the suffering to women alone is enough to prevent unwanted
pregnancy and abortion. not all people have to see it the same way to
AGREE TO PREVENT ABORTION

There are many ways to agree to work together on prevention
I've had more success focusing on "preventing the abuse" to begin with that causes it.

not waiting for abuse to lead to unwanted pregnancy, rape, abortion etc.

If you also do not believe in abortion even for rape and incest, my friend
Juda has been helping women who don't want to abort their babies after rape/incest:
CHOICES4LIFE_Home
If you can please connect with her, very few people understand the outreach she does.
She does not spend energy on blame, but healing and forgiveness to reach more ppl.

She and I agree on prevention and also restitution for rape and abuse so that
more women and families help to break the cycle of poverty and abuse.

I wish more prochoice feminists would work with prolife groups like Juda's.
we could eradicate trafficking, rape, abuse and thus abortion by working together.

but this political division can't keep blocking us and wasting resources fighting.
so that is where I have faith that forgiveness will bring healing, and the rest will follow.
both sides will get what they want, when we focus on prevention instead of fighting in fear.

 

[Vox]

Hi Vox
I think you mean something different by forgiveness then.

people forgive murderers all the time, who still face the punishment for their crimes.

Not if they brag about what they did.

emotional/spiritual forgiveness is SEPARATE from physical consequences etc.
we still "owe restitution" for wrongs we commit on others, even if we're "forgiven"

what emotional forgiveness are you talking about? one internet nickname towards the other internet nickname? This is a discussion board and therefore the hot topics produce clashes.
In real life I have never met the angry militant vaginas with vocal cords - the ones who consider themselves pro-choice perfectly well realize it is a murder, they usually do not support it for THEMSELVES and their daughters/sisters etc ( which is hypocrisy as well) but I have yet tot see anybody parading around with a motto - "I had an abortion and I would do it all over again".
yet on the internet boards you meet such sluts - and you name them as such.

2. as for prochoice prolife

even if ppl don't see it in terms of sin and murder, life at conception,
just stopping the suffering to women alone is enough to prevent unwanted
pregnancy and abortion. not all people have to see it the same way to
AGREE TO PREVENT ABORTION

which suffering? what are you talking about? there is no women suffering in the US - nobody is undergoing abortion because they "suffer".
Or you, people, have no idea what real suffering is.

There are many ways to agree to work together on prevention
I've had more success focusing on "preventing the abuse" to begin with that causes itnot waiting for abuse to lead to unwanted pregnancy, rape, abortion etc.

If you also do not believe in abortion even for rape and incest, my friend
Juda has been helping women who don't want to abort their babies after rape/incest:
CHOICES4LIFE_Home
If you can please connect with her, very few people understand the outreach she does.
She does not spend energy on blame, but healing and forgiveness to reach more ppl.

She and I agree on prevention and also restitution for rape and abuse so that
more women and families help to break the cycle of poverty and abuse.

I wish more prochoice feminists would work with prolife groups like Juda's.
we could eradicate trafficking, rape, abuse and thus abortion by working together.

but this political division can't keep blocking us and wasting resources fighting.
so that is where I have faith that forgiveness will bring healing, and the rest will follow.
both sides will get what they want, when we focus on prevention instead of fighting in fear.

that is in real life.
this is an internet board.
people vent here, nothing more.

 

[Vox]

"

1. In the United States, 93 per cent of all abortions
are performed in free-standing abortion clinics. A
woman whose post-abortion condition is lifethreatening
will be admitted to a general hospital
through an emergency department. The attending
emergency room doctor will not be the physician
who performed the abortion and may not record a
subsequent death as resulting from an abortion.
2. If the woman dies, it is not usually the abortion
provider but a casualty officer or the family doctor
who must complete the death certificate, and it is
this information upon which the death may or may
not be reported to the CDC.​

​

​

​

10 In 1995, Statistics
Canada noted that “if complications ensue after a
patient has been discharged from hospital, the
condition is treated as a separate case and does not
appear in the original abortion record”.11​

3. Inadequate information may be provided on the​

physician’s or coroner’s report."

http://www.deveber.org/text/chapters/Chap6.pdf

Dear KG: major problem with abortion legislation is holding the men equally responsible for either the unwanted pregnancy or coercing the woman to have an abortion. That is not taken into consideration, but all the burden legally and financially is on the woman.

laws would need to hold men equally accountable, like policing at the point
that abuse of the sex or abuse of the relationship OCCURS which is BOTH people's
responsibility equally. So that would require health related protections against abuse on another level of law, not criminalizing abortion after the fact, when it's all on the woman.

If you want to held men equally responsible ( which I am all for) - men should have equal say in the fate of the child. If the man says - NO - than that is it - the woman is carrying the pregnancy until the end and if she tries to murder the child - she is criminally prosecuted for murder.
It is already extremely unfair towards men - if the woman keeps the child - the man is responsible for 18 ears but does not have equal rights for the child, when the woman wants to murder the child in utero - man has no say in the issue - how much more do you want to discriminate men?
You do realize that coersion ( which obviously exists) is a direct consequence of the "blame men" policies?
If you want real responsibility - make it EQUAL first of all

 

[koshergrl]

The biology is what it is.

Women are the ones who get pregnant.

Once they're pregnant, they're pregnant. No turning back the clock. Stop stigmatizing pregnancy and devaluing children, and instead celebrate pregnancy and children. If you'd quit punishing women for getting pregnant, fewer of them will feel compelled to risk their lives to eliminate it.

 

[Vox]

The biology is what it is.

Women are the ones who get pregnant.

Once they're pregnant, they're pregnant. No turning back the clock. Stop stigmatizing pregnancy and devaluing children, and instead celebrate pregnancy and children. If you'd quit punishing women for getting pregnant, fewer of them will feel compelled to risk their lives to eliminate it.

Exactly. Celebrate motherhood and childbearing instead of gloryfying murder.

But,but, but it may decrease the number of those who want to abort and that will bring down thr profits of abortion clinics - and that what all this absolvation and gloryfication of murder in utero is about. Plus control over undesired populace.

 

[mamooth]

and what makes you think Pope's words are relevant for either of us?

They're applicable to any religion.

Your religion, of course, is anti-abortionism, and your devotion to that religion precludes any other religious beliefs on your parts.

 

[koshergrl]

What is with you racists and your compulsion to bring God into the abortion debate?

It's not about God. It's about human rights, and the violations that you maintain are *necessary*.

 

[JoeB131]

[

That's a direct contradiction of what you just said!
It's a life or it's not.
It depends on how I feel?
Feelings are not the basis of good governance.

It isn't a matter of governance, Double-Wide.

It's a matter of how people are going to run their lives.

WOmen who find themselves pregnant WILL have abortions. No matter what the law is.

 

[mamooth]

Planned Parenthood clinic firebomber suspect in Joplin, Missouri also confesses to mosque attack.

The Joplin Globe : UPDATED: Suspect allegedly confessed to setting Joplin mosque fire

Nah, no religious issues there.

 

[koshergrl]

So? People commit murder and burglary and child abuse every day, no matter what the law is.

That doesn't mean murder, burglary and child abuse need to be legalized and federally funded...