Islam forbids

[Mr.Fitnah]

Just more of your cut & paste nonsense Mr Fitnuts.

Question: do you ever answer anything in your own words?

I mean, anyone with limited intelligence can post cut & paste answers all day long, and still never understand the material or subject they are posting.

You seen to exhibit this behavior to the extreme.

I use my own words when my opinion is called for.
For matters concerning Islam I refer to experts for my uniformed bigotry and idiocy and extreme stupidity .
Islam Question and Answer - Meanings of the word fitnah in the Qur’aan

 

[Liability]

Just more of your cut & paste nonsense Mr Fitnuts.

Question: do you ever answer anything in your own words?

I mean, anyone with limited intelligence can post cut & paste answers all day long, and still never understand the material or subject they are posting.

You seen to exhibit this behavior to the extreme.

The fact that his quoted material is clearly responsive to the things you have said demonstrates how wrong you are.

"Fitnah" (whateverthefuckitmeans) is obviously NOT as simply defined as YOU suggested.

Mr. F's posts establish that quite clearly.

Perhaps the lack of understanding is yours alone.

I posted the dictionary definition for the word fitnah.

But Mr Fitnuts, adds all kinds of misquotes and out of context nonsense to the definition.

Sure he can impress the misinformed and gulible with his misinformation.

Although, those of us who are knowledgeable on the subject, are aware he is posting stupidity to the extreme.

No. He did not add any misquotes, etc., as you just falsely claimed When you find that you need to resort to lying to salvage your "case," it is time to consider just admitting that you lack support for your views. You cited ONE definition. Mr. F cited various other (just as valid) definitions.

You claim to be knowledgeable on the subject, but you have shown no more authority over the topic than Mr. F has. In fact, you have shown less.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

The fact that his quoted material is clearly responsive to the things you have said demonstrates how wrong you are.

"Fitnah" (whateverthefuckitmeans) is obviously NOT as simply defined as YOU suggested.

Mr. F's posts establish that quite clearly.

Perhaps the lack of understanding is yours alone.

I posted the dictionary definition for the word fitnah.

But Mr Fitnuts, adds all kinds of misquotes and out of context nonsense to the definition.

Sure he can impress the misinformed and gulible with his misinformation.

Although, those of us who are knowledgeable on the subject, are aware he is posting stupidity to the extreme.

No. He did not add any misquotes, etc., as you just falsely claimed When you find that you need to resort to lying to salvage your "case," it is time to consider just admitting that you lack support for your views. You cited ONE definition. Mr. F cited various other (just as valid) definitions.

You claim to be knowledgeable on the subject, but you have shown no more authority over the topic than Mr. F has. In fact, you have shown less.

I don't recall him claiming to be knowledgeable, he just claims Im not.

 

[Sunni Man]

Sunni Man, I'm caught in a bit of a quandry. You know as well as I that some followers of Mohammad believe (based on their interpretation of the Koran) that since I am an infidel (non-believer), it is acceptable to lie to me, cheat me, steal from me, kill me and/or all the above.
Not being able to read you mind or judge your heart how do I know you are not one of these? If you tell me you're not how can I believe you? You understand my dilemma.

Good question Ringel05

There is alot of misinformation on the subject. So I will explain it as best as I can.

First of all, lying iin general is not condoned in Islam.

The Quran says, "Truly Allah guides not one who transgresses and lies." Surah 40:28.

Also, Mohammed was quoted as saying, "Be honest because honesty leads to goodness, and goodness leads to Paradise. Beware of falsehood because it leads to immorality, and immorality leads to Hell."

So if I conduct business and don't tell customers the truth. That is lying and unislamic.


The type of lying that people accuse muslims of engaging in is called "taqiyya".

And claim that muslims are told to lie about everything; especially to non muslims.



Here is the 3 instances that a muslims can use taqiyya. (tell a lie)

Again, only these 3 are allowed in Islam.

1) during a time of war or to save your life or the lives of others

example: when captured by the enemy, you can give false information.

2) for reconciliation between people; i.e trying to settle a dispute between friends.

3) to you spouce to keep the peace. Like if your wife says "does this make me look fat"? (you can answer "No" reguardless of reality)

I hope this helps and answers your question.

 

[Liability]

Sunni Man, I'm caught in a bit of a quandry. You know as well as I that some followers of Mohammad believe (based on their interpretation of the Koran) that since I am an infidel (non-believer), it is acceptable to lie to me, cheat me, steal from me, kill me and/or all the above.
Not being able to read you mind or judge your heart how do I know you are not one of these? If you tell me you're not how can I believe you? You understand my dilemma.

Good question Ringel05

There is alot of misinformation on the subject. So I will explain it as best as I can.

First of all, lying iin general is not condoned in Islam.

The Quran says, "Truly Allah guides not one who transgresses and lies." Surah 40:28.

Also, Mohammed was quoted as saying, "Be honest because honesty leads to goodness, and goodness leads to Paradise. Beware of falsehood because it leads to immorality, and immorality leads to Hell."

So if I conduct business and don't tell customers the truth. That is lying and unislamic.


The type of lying that people accuse muslims of engaging in is called "taqiyya".

And claim that muslims are told to lie about everything; especially to non muslims.



Here is the 3 instances that a muslims can use taqiyya. (tell a lie)

Again, only these 3 are allowed in Islam.

1) during a time of war or to save your life or the lives of others

example: when captured by the enemy, you can give false information.

2) for reconciliation between people; i.e trying to settle a dispute between friends.

3) to you spouce to keep the peace. Like if your wife says "does this make me look fat"? (you can answer "No" reguardless of reality)

I hope this helps and answers your question.

The ANSWER is a lie.

And it is permissible for a Muslim to lie under these circumstances.

So, no.

YOUR answer is of zero value.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

 

[Sunni Man]

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

As I said in my post. Deception is allowed during a time of conflict or war.

All soldiers, armys, spies, governments; engage in this practice when dealing with the enemy.

In the quote that you posted. Muhammad was giving permission for a man to lie his way into an enemy camp and kill one of their leaders.

Basically what spies do, and have always done, in all wars throughout history.

 

[Liability]

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

As I said in my post. Deception is allowed during a time of conflict or war.

All soldiers, armys, spies, governments; engage in this practice when dealing with the enemy.

Lotsa Muslims ARE at war with many of US in the West. Ergo, lying is currently "okey-fucking-dokey." Mohammed said so.

 

[Ringel05]

Sunni Man, I'm caught in a bit of a quandry. You know as well as I that some followers of Mohammad believe (based on their interpretation of the Koran) that since I am an infidel (non-believer), it is acceptable to lie to me, cheat me, steal from me, kill me and/or all the above.
Not being able to read you mind or judge your heart how do I know you are not one of these? If you tell me you're not how can I believe you? You understand my dilemma.

Good question Ringel05

There is alot of misinformation on the subject. So I will explain it as best as I can.

First of all, lying iin general is not condoned in Islam.

The Quran says, "Truly Allah guides not one who transgresses and lies." Surah 40:28.

Also, Mohammed was quoted as saying, "Be honest because honesty leads to goodness, and goodness leads to Paradise. Beware of falsehood because it leads to immorality, and immorality leads to Hell."

So if I conduct business and don't tell customers the truth. That is lying and unislamic.


The type of lying that people accuse muslims of engaging in is called "taqiyya".

And claim that muslims are told to lie about everything; especially to non muslims.



Here is the 3 instances that a muslims can use taqiyya. (tell a lie)

Again, only these 3 are allowed in Islam.

1) during a time of war or to save your life or the lives of others

example: when captured by the enemy, you can give false information.

2) for reconciliation between people; i.e trying to settle a dispute between friends.

3) to you spouce to keep the peace. Like if your wife says "does this make me look fat"? (you can answer "No" reguardless of reality)

I hope this helps and answers your question.

Ok, but you specifically avoided the part concerning those followers of Islam who do not follow what you have posted and do exactly as I have stated and how you can convince me you are not one of them. In their eyes I am an infidel, so whatever evil they do to me is not forbidden simply because I am not a believer. They are the ones who (like the ultra-radical Christian zelots do for Christianity) contribute to giving Islam a bad name. I know how you can mitigate (not eliminate) my skepticism, do you?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

As I said in my post. Deception is allowed during a time of conflict or war.

All soldiers, armys, spies, governments; engage in this practice when dealing with the enemy.

Ishaq:208 "When Allah gave permission to his Apostle to fight, the second Aqaba contained conditions involving war which were not in the first act of submission. Now we bound ourselves to war against all mankind for Allah and His Apostle. He promised us a reward in Paradise for faithful service. We pledged ourselves to war in complete obedience to Muhammad no matter how evil the circumstances."


33:21. Indeed in the Messenger of Allâh (Muhammad ) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allâh and the Last Day and remembers Allâh much.


'Abdullah bin 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with them, reported:
Allah's Messenger said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, perform the Prayer, and pay Zakah. If they do that, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.
http://hadith.al-islam.com/bayan/display.asp?Lang=eng&ID=12

 

[Sunni Man]

Ok, but you specifically avoided the part concerning those followers of Islam who do not follow what you have posted and do exactly as I have stated and how you can convince me you are not one of them. In their eyes I am an infidel, so whatever evil they do to me is not forbidden simply because I am not a believer. They are the ones who (like the ultra-radical Christian zelots do for Christianity) contribute to giving Islam a bad name. I know how you can mitigate (not eliminate) my skepticism, do you?

Just as not all Christians follow the Bible or act like christians.

Not all Muslims follow the Quran or act like muslims.

All I post is what the Quran says concerning different subjects.

Every individual christian and muslim will be held responsible for their actions by God.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Ok, but you specifically avoided the part concerning those followers of Islam who do not follow what you have posted and do exactly as I have stated and how you can convince me you are not one of them. In their eyes I am an infidel, so whatever evil they do to me is not forbidden simply because I am not a believer. They are the ones who (like the ultra-radical Christian zelots do for Christianity) contribute to giving Islam a bad name. I know how you can mitigate (not eliminate) my skepticism, do you?

Just as not all Christians follow the Bible or act like christians.

Not all Muslims follow the Quran or act like muslims.

All I post is what the Quran says concerning different subjects.

Every individual christian and muslim will be held responsible for their actions by God.

9:111. Verily, Allâh has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allâh's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) and the Qur'ân. And who is truer to his covenant than Allâh? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success[].

9:112. (The believers whose lives Allâh has purchased are) those who repent to Allâh (from polytheism and hypocrisy, etc.), who worship Him, who praise Him, who fast (or go out in Allâh's Cause), who bow down (in prayer), who prostrate themselves (in prayer), who enjoin (people) for Al-Ma'rûf (i.e. Islâmic Monotheism and all what Islâm has ordained) and forbid (people) from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds and all that Islâm has forbidden), and who observe the limits set by Allâh (do all that Allâh has ordained and abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which Allâh has forbidden). And give glad tidings to the believers

2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)
The Noble Quran : Surat 2

let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn
let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn
let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn
let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn

8:39

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do
2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc193

http://www.ummah.com/what-is-islam/quran/noble/

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

 

[Ringel05]

Ok, but you specifically avoided the part concerning those followers of Islam who do not follow what you have posted and do exactly as I have stated and how you can convince me you are not one of them. In their eyes I am an infidel, so whatever evil they do to me is not forbidden simply because I am not a believer. They are the ones who (like the ultra-radical Christian zelots do for Christianity) contribute to giving Islam a bad name. I know how you can mitigate (not eliminate) my skepticism, do you?

Just as not all Christians follow the Bible or act like christians.

Not all Muslims follow the Quran or act like muslims.

All I post is what the Quran says concerning different subjects.

Every individual christian and muslim will be held responsible for their actions by God.

You answered my question by evasion. That leaves me with the only conclusion I can draw. You are indeed one of those who wish to destroy me and everything I believe in. This obvously makes us deadly enemies. I for one would rather see the world destroyed then live under a world wide Caliphate (yes, I do know what the ultimate goal of Islam is).

 

[Sunni Man]

Mr Fitnuts, I answer you questions with my own words and thoughts.

Yet, again, your response is just another long cut & paste.

Do you EVER have an orginal idea or answer that is yours???

 

[Sunni Man]

You answered my question by evasion.

Evasion??

I tried to answer your question as best and as detained as I could.

And tried to address every point as you requested.

How you got evasion out of my answer is beyond me.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Mr Fitnuts, I answer you questions with my own words and thoughts.

Yet, again, your response is just another long cut & paste.

Do you EVER have an orginal idea or answer that is yours???

I use my own words when my opinion is called for.
On matters concerning Islam, my opinion is irrelevant . For that I rely on scripture and the opinion of experts.

 

[Fatality]

scripture and commentary is the basis of the theolgical question, i wonder why the muhammadan thinks this is worthless? does he have something to hide?

 

[Ringel05]

You answered my question by evasion.

Evasion??

I tried to answer your question as best and as detained as I could.

And tried to address every point as you requested.

How you got evasion out of my answer is beyond me.

Nope, it was evasion. If you can't see that then you are either blind or being deceptive. Reread what my question was, you definitely did not answer it. It was quite specific and directed to you, a regurgitation of what the Koran says is not an answer, it is an evasion of the specifically asked question.

 

[Sunni Man]

You answered my question by evasion.

Evasion??

I tried to answer your question as best and as detained as I could.

And tried to address every point as you requested.

How you got evasion out of my answer is beyond me.

Nope, it was evasion. If you can't see that then you are either blind or being deceptive. Reread what my question was, you definitely did not answer it. It was quite specific and directed to you, a regurgitation of what the Koran says is not an answer, it is an evasion of the specifically asked question.

Your question(s) was in the form of a long run on sentence, with very little punctuation. So it was hard to follow. Please ask it again in a coherent manner and I will attemp to answer. But please be precise as to what you want.

Thank You

 

[Ringel05]

Evasion??

I tried to answer your question as best and as detained as I could.

And tried to address every point as you requested.

How you got evasion out of my answer is beyond me.

Nope, it was evasion. If you can't see that then you are either blind or being deceptive. Reread what my question was, you definitely did not answer it. It was quite specific and directed to you, a regurgitation of what the Koran says is not an answer, it is an evasion of the specifically asked question.

Your question(s) was in the form of a long run on sentence, with very little punctuation. So it was hard to follow. Please ask it again in a coherent manner and I will attemp to answer. But please be precise as to what you want.

Thank You

You're joking, right?! My question was quite succinct and properly punctuated, that is something I do know how to do, I learned how to do this in 5th grade.
But since you insist:
The first part was a qualifier, the second (in red) was the question/statement.

Sunni Man, I'm caught in a bit of a quandary. You know as well as I that some followers of Mohammad believe (based on their interpretation of the Koran) that since I am an infidel (non-believer), it is acceptable to lie to me, cheat me, steal from me, kill me and/or all the above.
Not being able to read you mind or judge your heart how do I know you are not one of these? If you tell me you're not how can I believe you? You understand my dilemma.