It's time to start thinking about resistance.

[flacaltenn]

Without knowing all the details of what happened in Philadelphia, how could I possibly render an an informed opinion based on your claim that police bombed an entire neighborhood?

Regardless... if you don't like my opinion on Waco -- don't read my posts about it then. Simple, eh?

I'm not sure what FCT's point is about the MOVE bombing but I'm very familiar with that event; I lived there at the time. Not in that neighborhood but in the city, although I had friends that lived around there.

MOVE was a naturalist group that lived in one of the houses communally and the police made the ill-advised move of dropping C4 explosives from a helicopter into the house from above. Colossally stupid idea. The resulting fire took out adjoining houses for blocks.

I'm not aware of it having been a "black neighborhood", nor would that have had anything to do with the incident if it had been, but again I don't know what the point's supposed to be here.

There were HEAVILY ARMED black militants holed up in those "compounds". Long stand-off. Police got bored. BOMBED the buildings from helicopters. What more do you need to know?

Firearms, resistance, over-use of force. Did THEY commit suicide? Should THEY have sent the children out?

Look, I know the incident very well; I don't need an edumacation on what it was or who it was. And no, they were not "black militants", they were fringe weirdos led by a charismatic nutball. Semi-Rastafarian animal rights activists with a penchant for guns and for being obnoxious. I haven't claimed that they "committed suicide" or commented on how they handled the children or anything else. I don't know what your point is here; I simply said I'm familiar with it.

Ramona Africa, the only resident of the house to be imprisoned, was awarded something like a half million for having her civil rights violated. My opinion, if that's what you're asking, is that while the city was justified in addressing the situation in the interest of keeping the peace, it went WAY overboard in its escalation and destroyed 61 homes unnecessarily. It's a story primarily of police excess.

You're good on those details. Just want to hear from Faun that they deserved it, that they committed suicide, and that they should have sent the children out..

that they committed suicide, and that they should have sent the children out..

David and his Koreshians?

Of course you drop in 20 pages late ----- but yeah. What's the diff in the overuse of force on the part of Govt in both cases? Seems like Faun believes those religious fanatics deserved it. Of course, he really hasn't the studied the massive amount of mis-steps, lies, and cover-ups for either of these.

Just wanted to see WHO LIKES this type of military crackdown on crack-pots.....
And ---- whether they are consistent. BOTH groups had religiously founded views that led them to believe in "resistance"...

 

[P@triot]

I'm not sure what FCT's point is about the MOVE bombing but I'm very familiar with that event; I lived there at the time. Not in that neighborhood but in the city, although I had friends that lived around there.

MOVE was a naturalist group that lived in one of the houses communally and the police made the ill-advised move of dropping C4 explosives from a helicopter into the house from above. Colossally stupid idea. The resulting fire took out adjoining houses for blocks.

I'm not aware of it having been a "black neighborhood", nor would that have had anything to do with the incident if it had been, but again I don't know what the point's supposed to be here.

There were HEAVILY ARMED black militants holed up in those "compounds". Long stand-off. Police got bored. BOMBED the buildings from helicopters. What more do you need to know?

Firearms, resistance, over-use of force. Did THEY commit suicide? Should THEY have sent the children out?

Look, I know the incident very well; I don't need an edumacation on what it was or who it was. And no, they were not "black militants", they were fringe weirdos led by a charismatic nutball. Semi-Rastafarian animal rights activists with a penchant for guns and for being obnoxious. I haven't claimed that they "committed suicide" or commented on how they handled the children or anything else. I don't know what your point is here; I simply said I'm familiar with it.

Ramona Africa, the only resident of the house to be imprisoned, was awarded something like a half million for having her civil rights violated. My opinion, if that's what you're asking, is that while the city was justified in addressing the situation in the interest of keeping the peace, it went WAY overboard in its escalation and destroyed 61 homes unnecessarily. It's a story primarily of police excess.

You're good on those details. Just want to hear from Faun that they deserved it, that they committed suicide, and that they should have sent the children out..

that they committed suicide, and that they should have sent the children out..

David and his Koreshians?

Of course you drop in 20 pages late ----- but yeah. What's the diff in the overuse of force on the part of Govt in both cases? Seems like Faun believes those religious fanatics deserved it. Of course, he really hasn't the studied the massive amount of mis-steps, lies, and cover-ups for either of these.

Just wanted to see WHO LIKES this type of military crackdown on crack-pots.....
And ---- whether they are consistent. BOTH groups had religiously founded views that led them to believe in "resistance"...

Unfortunately Faun doesn't study anything when it comes to facts and reality.

 

[Faun]

And you have Janet Reno stating that if she had KNOWN the Davidians were spreading fuel -- she would have STOPPED the assault. Testimonies vary as to what was actually heard. But either they KNEW the Davidians were spreading fuel and lobbed those incendiary devices ANYWAY or they never heard anything of the sort -- they staged a millitary style attack on civilians without any regard for providing an evac or safety plan.. You love yourself some military justice ---- don't ya???

The FBI was recording the Davidians and their conversation about dousing their own compound with Coleman fuel was happening as law enforcement was tearing down walls and firing tear gas. There's no evidence I'm aware of that Janet Reno was listening live as they carried out their own demise.

So all you have is the word of the killers?
If it was the cops you wouldnt believe em.

Yes, the word of the killers being the Davidians themselves. I heard the audio where they were discussing dousing their own compound with fuel.

It was a mass suicide.

You miserable piece of shit


I want you to provide a link supporting your totally erroneous slanderous post.


.

I asked him for a link...he's got nothing.

Nah, you're not that lucky...

Tape of Cultists Discussing Blaze Played : Trial: Prosecution rests after the recording of Branch Davidians saying, 'Got any fuel?' and 'I want a fire around the back' is heard in the murder case.

Jurors, lawyers, defendants and the judge used headphones Tuesday to listen to about an hour of excerpts from more than 100 hours of tapes made during the standoff.

At 6 a.m. on the day of the fire, an FBI agent began warning by telephone and loudspeaker that armored vehicles were going to rush the compound and tear gas was going to be fired inside.

"Got any fuel?" the transcript quoted a man as saying about 6:10 a.m. About 10 minutes later, the transcript said, another unidentified man asked, " . . . start the fire?"

At 9:20 a.m., the tape quotes Koresh as asking top aide Steven Schneider about "two cans of Coleman fuel." Schneider replied that the cans were empty but said he had "some mineral oil," the transcript said.

"I want a fire around the back," an unidentified voice was quoted as saying at 11:40 a.m.

"Let's keep that fire going" was the last line of the excerpts that jurors heard. Prosecutors said an unidentified man made the remark within 25 minutes of the fire's ignition at 12:07 p.m.​

 

[Faun]

Regarding Michael Brown... when the story broke, I thought the cop was wrong based in the limited information released. With all the information known now, Wilson acted appropriately.

As far as Philadelphia... I don't know enough about to to render an opinion.

Waco, I followed closely.

Well NOW that you KNOW they bombed out an entire black neighborhood in Philadelphia -- you're saying you have "NO OPINION" on that over-use of force? Perhaps you OUGHT to know about it. Wasn't a fringe religious group that time -- you MIGHT find an ounce of outrage. OR ------------------ maybe not..

Not liking the fact you didn't know about it or don't want to read some about it..
Seems to me -- that might cause your head to explore with cognitive dissonance.. Go form an opinion and then GET BACK TO ME on Waco...

Without knowing all the details of what happened in Philadelphia, how could I possibly render an an informed opinion based on your claim that police bombed an entire neighborhood?

Regardless... if you don't like my opinion on Waco -- don't read my posts about it then. Simple, eh?

And you're not INTERESTED in 19 dead people and 65 houses BOMBED?? Kinda tells me WHY you are so invested in your Waco propaganda and not really interested in Govt abuse or liberty or natural rights at all.

All I really need to know. When I meet folks that aren't interested in the Philly MOVE beat-down --- they usually are VERY opinionated about WACO.. Why you think that is?? I KNOW why that is..

Stuff it. There are beyond thousands upon thousands of incidents over time where people get kilked. I'm not about to go studying up on them because some yahoo in a forum wants to "test" me.

Meanwhile, in Waco... the Davidians committed suicide.

FAUN

How many more times do I get to bitch slap you over Waco?

 

[Carla_Danger]

Even if the Dems don't take the White House, there are local battles to fight.

If it's Hillary or Sanders, only we can stop the destruction and loss of basic rights.

It's time to organize, to unite, to resist. If there are enough of us, they cannot throw us all in jail.

A little revolution now and then is a good thing.

So how do we start?

You're not getting any younger. How's your revolution coming along?

 

[Faun]

Regarding Michael Brown... when the story broke, I thought the cop was wrong based in the limited information released. With all the information known now, Wilson acted appropriately.

As far as Philadelphia... I don't know enough about to to render an opinion.

Waco, I followed closely.

Well NOW that you KNOW they bombed out an entire black neighborhood in Philadelphia -- you're saying you have "NO OPINION" on that over-use of force? Perhaps you OUGHT to know about it. Wasn't a fringe religious group that time -- you MIGHT find an ounce of outrage. OR ------------------ maybe not..

Not liking the fact you didn't know about it or don't want to read some about it..
Seems to me -- that might cause your head to explore with cognitive dissonance.. Go form an opinion and then GET BACK TO ME on Waco...

Without knowing all the details of what happened in Philadelphia, how could I possibly render an an informed opinion based on your claim that police bombed an entire neighborhood?

Regardless... if you don't like my opinion on Waco -- don't read my posts about it then. Simple, eh?

How can you render an informed opinion??? READ THE DAMN LINK.. Then find another one to corroborate it... I want to see you defend that escalation of force, the lying by authorities, and the massive risks to innocents. Because those crazy black militia guys "deserved it".. Maybe THEY committed suicide also. And should have sent their kids out..



MOVE Bombing at 30: "Barbaric" 1985 Philadelphia Police Attack Killed 11 & Burned a Neighborhood | Democracy Now!

MOVE 30: Inside the May 1985 Assault on MOVE

I don't take orders from you and I'm not brushing up on a piece of history from long ago because you want to "test" my consistency." I have plenty of material already on these fora providing sufficient quantities of opinions for you to work with.

Oh I understand you don't work for me. But I'm fascinated that when presented with a death toll and a picture of an actual BOMBED OUT NEIGHBORHOOD --- that you would not have 5 minutes to read the links and declare that "these people TOO -- committed suicide and they TOO deserved it"..

Don't have an interest huh??
We're pretty much done because now I now you are nowhere NEAR a champion of Rights and Liberty and are only in the thread because "resistance" is a word LICENSED by leftists such as yourself. The Philly neighbors that got bombed -- THOUGHT they were a resistance that leftists like you would at least remember and suppport...

Kindly quote where I ever claimed to be a champion of rights and liberty?

Not for nothin', but.... no one here is. Real champions of rights and liberty are not wasting time posting opinions on a forum such as this -- they're too busy taking real action.

 

[Faun]

Betcha your nose was totally out of joint about the "Hands Up -- Don't Shoot" fantasy in St. Louis -- wasn't it?
You probably have SITUATIONAL problems with state Authority.. And view govt over-use of force as some kind of really useful tool to use against people you DON'T like.

Let's test your consistency here. Tell me how much you APPROVE of this BOMBING of an entire black neighborhood to end a "stand-off"... Hope you've heard of it..

25 Years Ago: Philadelphia Police Bombs MOVE Headquarters Killing 11, Destroying 65 Homes | Democracy Now!

Regarding Michael Brown... when the story broke, I thought the cop was wrong based in the limited information released. With all the information known now, Wilson acted appropriately.

As far as Philadelphia... I don't know enough about to to render an opinion.

Waco, I followed closely.

Well NOW that you KNOW they bombed out an entire black neighborhood in Philadelphia -- you're saying you have "NO OPINION" on that over-use of force? Perhaps you OUGHT to know about it. Wasn't a fringe religious group that time -- you MIGHT find an ounce of outrage. OR ------------------ maybe not..

Not liking the fact you didn't know about it or don't want to read some about it..
Seems to me -- that might cause your head to explore with cognitive dissonance.. Go form an opinion and then GET BACK TO ME on Waco...

Without knowing all the details of what happened in Philadelphia, how could I possibly render an an informed opinion based on your claim that police bombed an entire neighborhood?

Regardless... if you don't like my opinion on Waco -- don't read my posts about it then. Simple, eh?

I'm not sure what FCT's point is about the MOVE bombing but I'm very familiar with that event; I lived there at the time. Not in that neighborhood but in the city, although I had friends that lived around there.

MOVE was a naturalist group that lived in one of the houses communally and the police made the ill-advised move of dropping C4 explosives from a helicopter into the house from above. Colossally stupid idea. The resulting fire took out adjoining houses for blocks.

I'm not aware of it having been a "black neighborhood", nor would that have had anything to do with the incident if it had been, but again I don't know what the point's supposed to be here.

There were HEAVILY ARMED black militants holed up in those "compounds". Long stand-off. Police got bored. BOMBED the buildings from helicopters. What more do you need to know?

Firearms, resistance, over-use of force. Did THEY commit suicide? Should THEY have sent the children out?

Seems you and Pogo, two people apparently knowledgeable on the subject, can't even find common ground. How the fuck did you delude yourself into thinking I could spend "5 minutes" and gain enough insight to determine what happened, what lead up to it, and who was largely at fault?

 

[flacaltenn]

The FBI was recording the Davidians and their conversation about dousing their own compound with Coleman fuel was happening as law enforcement was tearing down walls and firing tear gas. There's no evidence I'm aware of that Janet Reno was listening live as they carried out their own demise.

So all you have is the word of the killers?
If it was the cops you wouldnt believe em.

Yes, the word of the killers being the Davidians themselves. I heard the audio where they were discussing dousing their own compound with fuel.

It was a mass suicide.

You miserable piece of shit


I want you to provide a link supporting your totally erroneous slanderous post.


.

I asked him for a link...he's got nothing.

Nah, you're not that lucky...

Tape of Cultists Discussing Blaze Played : Trial: Prosecution rests after the recording of Branch Davidians saying, 'Got any fuel?' and 'I want a fire around the back' is heard in the murder case.

Jurors, lawyers, defendants and the judge used headphones Tuesday to listen to about an hour of excerpts from more than 100 hours of tapes made during the standoff.

At 6 a.m. on the day of the fire, an FBI agent began warning by telephone and loudspeaker that armored vehicles were going to rush the compound and tear gas was going to be fired inside.

"Got any fuel?" the transcript quoted a man as saying about 6:10 a.m. About 10 minutes later, the transcript said, another unidentified man asked, " . . . start the fire?"

At 9:20 a.m., the tape quotes Koresh as asking top aide Steven Schneider about "two cans of Coleman fuel." Schneider replied that the cans were empty but said he had "some mineral oil," the transcript said.

"I want a fire around the back," an unidentified voice was quoted as saying at 11:40 a.m.

"Let's keep that fire going" was the last line of the excerpts that jurors heard. Prosecutors said an unidentified man made the remark within 25 minutes of the fire's ignition at 12:07 p.m.​

NONE of that is for certain. The jury never believed any of the ACTUAL recordings. The sound of the tanks SMASHING the building and all the chaos was too loud. SEVERAL "expert" transcripts were submitted. ALL of them had issues and contradictions.

And NONE of that matters. The tanks had virtually DEMOLISHED large areas of the facilities BEFORE the fires broke out.. THAT ACTION was enough to spread fuel that the folks were using for lanterns and cooking and heating. It was ALL OVER the place. And massive destruction the tanks caused were enough by themselves to "spread fuel" all over the place. ONE flash bang grenade would be enough to set it all off --- EVEN IF -- the Davidians had done nothing..

Survivors say the hay bales were to STOP grenades from coming in the windows and block the view. And EVERY room had cans of kerosene, mineral oil, and camping fuel in them...

 

[Faun]

The FBI was recording the Davidians and their conversation about dousing their own compound with Coleman fuel was happening as law enforcement was tearing down walls and firing tear gas. There's no evidence I'm aware of that Janet Reno was listening live as they carried out their own demise.

So all you have is the word of the killers?
If it was the cops you wouldnt believe em.

Yes, the word of the killers being the Davidians themselves. I heard the audio where they were discussing dousing their own compound with fuel.

It was a mass suicide.

You miserable piece of shit


I want you to provide a link supporting your totally erroneous slanderous post.


.

Oh? You wanna link?

Sure, here ya go --> link

So ya got nothen....

Of course I do; and of course, I posted it.

But for the record, when someone calls me a POS and demands I do something -- they should expect to be told to fuck off.

 

[flacaltenn]

Regarding Michael Brown... when the story broke, I thought the cop was wrong based in the limited information released. With all the information known now, Wilson acted appropriately.

As far as Philadelphia... I don't know enough about to to render an opinion.

Waco, I followed closely.

Well NOW that you KNOW they bombed out an entire black neighborhood in Philadelphia -- you're saying you have "NO OPINION" on that over-use of force? Perhaps you OUGHT to know about it. Wasn't a fringe religious group that time -- you MIGHT find an ounce of outrage. OR ------------------ maybe not..

Not liking the fact you didn't know about it or don't want to read some about it..
Seems to me -- that might cause your head to explore with cognitive dissonance.. Go form an opinion and then GET BACK TO ME on Waco...

Without knowing all the details of what happened in Philadelphia, how could I possibly render an an informed opinion based on your claim that police bombed an entire neighborhood?

Regardless... if you don't like my opinion on Waco -- don't read my posts about it then. Simple, eh?

I'm not sure what FCT's point is about the MOVE bombing but I'm very familiar with that event; I lived there at the time. Not in that neighborhood but in the city, although I had friends that lived around there.

MOVE was a naturalist group that lived in one of the houses communally and the police made the ill-advised move of dropping C4 explosives from a helicopter into the house from above. Colossally stupid idea. The resulting fire took out adjoining houses for blocks.

I'm not aware of it having been a "black neighborhood", nor would that have had anything to do with the incident if it had been, but again I don't know what the point's supposed to be here.

There were HEAVILY ARMED black militants holed up in those "compounds". Long stand-off. Police got bored. BOMBED the buildings from helicopters. What more do you need to know?

Firearms, resistance, over-use of force. Did THEY commit suicide? Should THEY have sent the children out?

Seems you and Pogo, two people apparently knowledgeable on the subject, can't even find common ground. How the fuck did you delude yourself into thinking I could spend "5 minutes" and gain enough insight to determine what happened, what lead up to it, and who was largely at fault?

Oh I think Pogo and I agree totally on what a shameful disaster the Philly bombing of MOVE was. No issues there. In fact -- you'd be hard pressed to find ANYONE that spent 5 minutes reading the story that thought these folks deserved to bombed and burnt. Or that they should have let the children go. Or that it was a suicide cult.

No doubt MOVE was a kinda quirky religious cult. Just that they were an extreme LEFT quirky cult with too many guns and to boot --- they were black power militants. THAT'S why no knows about this or cares.

 

[Faun]

There were HEAVILY ARMED black militants holed up in those "compounds". Long stand-off. Police got bored. BOMBED the buildings from helicopters. What more do you need to know?

Firearms, resistance, over-use of force. Did THEY commit suicide? Should THEY have sent the children out?

Look, I know the incident very well; I don't need an edumacation on what it was or who it was. And no, they were not "black militants", they were fringe weirdos led by a charismatic nutball. Semi-Rastafarian animal rights activists with a penchant for guns and for being obnoxious. I haven't claimed that they "committed suicide" or commented on how they handled the children or anything else. I don't know what your point is here; I simply said I'm familiar with it.

Ramona Africa, the only resident of the house to be imprisoned, was awarded something like a half million for having her civil rights violated. My opinion, if that's what you're asking, is that while the city was justified in addressing the situation in the interest of keeping the peace, it went WAY overboard in its escalation and destroyed 61 homes unnecessarily. It's a story primarily of police excess.

You're good on those details. Just want to hear from Faun that they deserved it, that they committed suicide, and that they should have sent the children out..

that they committed suicide, and that they should have sent the children out..

David and his Koreshians?

Of course you drop in 20 pages late ----- but yeah. What's the diff in the overuse of force on the part of Govt in both cases? Seems like Faun believes those religious fanatics deserved it. Of course, he really hasn't the studied the massive amount of mis-steps, lies, and cover-ups for either of these.

Just wanted to see WHO LIKES this type of military crackdown on crack-pots.....
And ---- whether they are consistent. BOTH groups had religiously founded views that led them to believe in "resistance"...

Unfortunately Faun doesn't study anything when it comes to facts and reality.

Spits the moron who actually said, the economy Bush handed Obama was "just fine."

 

[Faun]

So all you have is the word of the killers?
If it was the cops you wouldnt believe em.

Yes, the word of the killers being the Davidians themselves. I heard the audio where they were discussing dousing their own compound with fuel.

It was a mass suicide.

You miserable piece of shit


I want you to provide a link supporting your totally erroneous slanderous post.


.

I asked him for a link...he's got nothing.

Nah, you're not that lucky...

Tape of Cultists Discussing Blaze Played : Trial: Prosecution rests after the recording of Branch Davidians saying, 'Got any fuel?' and 'I want a fire around the back' is heard in the murder case.

Jurors, lawyers, defendants and the judge used headphones Tuesday to listen to about an hour of excerpts from more than 100 hours of tapes made during the standoff.

At 6 a.m. on the day of the fire, an FBI agent began warning by telephone and loudspeaker that armored vehicles were going to rush the compound and tear gas was going to be fired inside.

"Got any fuel?" the transcript quoted a man as saying about 6:10 a.m. About 10 minutes later, the transcript said, another unidentified man asked, " . . . start the fire?"

At 9:20 a.m., the tape quotes Koresh as asking top aide Steven Schneider about "two cans of Coleman fuel." Schneider replied that the cans were empty but said he had "some mineral oil," the transcript said.

"I want a fire around the back," an unidentified voice was quoted as saying at 11:40 a.m.

"Let's keep that fire going" was the last line of the excerpts that jurors heard. Prosecutors said an unidentified man made the remark within 25 minutes of the fire's ignition at 12:07 p.m.​

NONE of that is for certain. The jury never believed any of the ACTUAL recordings. The sound of the tanks SMASHING the building and all the chaos was too loud. SEVERAL "expert" transcripts were submitted. ALL of them had issues and contradictions.

And NONE of that matters. The tanks had virtually DEMOLISHED large areas of the facilities BEFORE the fires broke out.. THAT ACTION was enough to spread fuel that the folks were using for lanterns and cooking and heating. It was ALL OVER the place. And massive destruction the tanks caused were enough by themselves to "spread fuel" all over the place. ONE flash bang grenade would be enough to set it all off --- EVEN IF -- the Davidians had done nothing..

Survivors say the hay bales were to STOP grenades from coming in the windows and block the view. And EVERY room had cans of kerosene, mineral oil, and camping fuel in them...

Tanks may or may not have spread fuel ... folks inside the compound were still heard discussing pouring it themselves.

And then there were 3 separate fires break out simultaneously ... at least one of them where there were no tanks.

 

[Faun]

Well NOW that you KNOW they bombed out an entire black neighborhood in Philadelphia -- you're saying you have "NO OPINION" on that over-use of force? Perhaps you OUGHT to know about it. Wasn't a fringe religious group that time -- you MIGHT find an ounce of outrage. OR ------------------ maybe not..

Not liking the fact you didn't know about it or don't want to read some about it..
Seems to me -- that might cause your head to explore with cognitive dissonance.. Go form an opinion and then GET BACK TO ME on Waco...

Without knowing all the details of what happened in Philadelphia, how could I possibly render an an informed opinion based on your claim that police bombed an entire neighborhood?

Regardless... if you don't like my opinion on Waco -- don't read my posts about it then. Simple, eh?

I'm not sure what FCT's point is about the MOVE bombing but I'm very familiar with that event; I lived there at the time. Not in that neighborhood but in the city, although I had friends that lived around there.

MOVE was a naturalist group that lived in one of the houses communally and the police made the ill-advised move of dropping C4 explosives from a helicopter into the house from above. Colossally stupid idea. The resulting fire took out adjoining houses for blocks.

I'm not aware of it having been a "black neighborhood", nor would that have had anything to do with the incident if it had been, but again I don't know what the point's supposed to be here.

There were HEAVILY ARMED black militants holed up in those "compounds". Long stand-off. Police got bored. BOMBED the buildings from helicopters. What more do you need to know?

Firearms, resistance, over-use of force. Did THEY commit suicide? Should THEY have sent the children out?

Seems you and Pogo, two people apparently knowledgeable on the subject, can't even find common ground. How the fuck did you delude yourself into thinking I could spend "5 minutes" and gain enough insight to determine what happened, what lead up to it, and who was largely at fault?

Oh I think Pogo and I agree totally on what a shameful disaster the Philly bombing of MOVE was. No issues there. In fact -- you'd be hard pressed to find ANYONE that spent 5 minutes reading the story that thought these folks deserved to bombed and burnt. Or that they should have let the children go. Or that it was a suicide cult.

No doubt MOVE was a kinda quirky religious cult. Just that they were an extreme LEFT quirky cult with too many guns and to boot --- they were black power militants. THAT'S why no knows about this or cares.

I don't know that you do. You two could even agree on who was holed up.

 

[Pogo]

Well NOW that you KNOW they bombed out an entire black neighborhood in Philadelphia -- you're saying you have "NO OPINION" on that over-use of force? Perhaps you OUGHT to know about it. Wasn't a fringe religious group that time -- you MIGHT find an ounce of outrage. OR ------------------ maybe not..

Not liking the fact you didn't know about it or don't want to read some about it..
Seems to me -- that might cause your head to explore with cognitive dissonance.. Go form an opinion and then GET BACK TO ME on Waco...

Without knowing all the details of what happened in Philadelphia, how could I possibly render an an informed opinion based on your claim that police bombed an entire neighborhood?

Regardless... if you don't like my opinion on Waco -- don't read my posts about it then. Simple, eh?

I'm not sure what FCT's point is about the MOVE bombing but I'm very familiar with that event; I lived there at the time. Not in that neighborhood but in the city, although I had friends that lived around there.

MOVE was a naturalist group that lived in one of the houses communally and the police made the ill-advised move of dropping C4 explosives from a helicopter into the house from above. Colossally stupid idea. The resulting fire took out adjoining houses for blocks.

I'm not aware of it having been a "black neighborhood", nor would that have had anything to do with the incident if it had been, but again I don't know what the point's supposed to be here.

There were HEAVILY ARMED black militants holed up in those "compounds". Long stand-off. Police got bored. BOMBED the buildings from helicopters. What more do you need to know?

Firearms, resistance, over-use of force. Did THEY commit suicide? Should THEY have sent the children out?

Seems you and Pogo, two people apparently knowledgeable on the subject, can't even find common ground. How the fuck did you delude yourself into thinking I could spend "5 minutes" and gain enough insight to determine what happened, what lead up to it, and who was largely at fault?

Oh I think Pogo and I agree totally on what a shameful disaster the Philly bombing of MOVE was. No issues there. In fact -- you'd be hard pressed to find ANYONE that spent 5 minutes reading the story that thought these folks deserved to bombed and burnt. Or that they should have let the children go. Or that it was a suicide cult.

No doubt MOVE was a kinda quirky religious cult. Just that they were an extreme LEFT quirky cult with too many guns and to boot --- they were black power militants. THAT'S why no knows about this or cares.

They were not "black power militants". I don't know where you keep getting that. Some of them were white, for one thing. They were a vaguely quasi-Rastafarian naturalist collective cult, into lots of exercise and eating raw foods, and they were political activists into being very loud. Part of their strange strategy was to piss off their neighbors so that the neighbors would in turn go take action against the city. This they did with blaring loudspeakers broadcasting profanities. If you want to call that 'religious' you need a broad definition but I guess you could in a sense. But basically they defied categorization.

Nor did they have, compared to the military police operation, "too many guns". Two pistols, a .22 rifle and a shotgun, that's it. That's how we know all the automatic weapons fire, as recorded in videos, came from the police, who fired ten thousand rounds into the house before calling for more ammo.

 

[Synthaholic]

Someone mentioned the Tea Party. Now that's a good idea. Should be able to find motivated people from there. They have to be disappointed in how the TP has gone soft.

No, you and your ilk bought their bullshit. Like when they said they were going to Washington to clean it up, not become career politicians. Louis Gommert, Marsha Blackburn, Scott Dejarlais and all the rest of the teabaggers are now running for their third term.

 

[Wry Catcher]

So what is 'unreasonable' search and seizure? The 'general welfare'? 'Privileges and immunities'?

By all means, give us the definitions provided by the constitution.

IF one of you Bolsheviks were to ever read the document, you may find that the answers are embedded. Now I grant that you would be purged from the party for such heresy, but still....

The answer is simple, search of an individual or his/her premises (including an automobile) and/or seizure of evidence found in such a search by a law enforcement officer without a search warrant and without "probable cause" to believe evidence of a crime is present.

How do we know this? (WARNING: Constitution Follows, democrats may suffer severe burns in reaction!)

Simple, the Constitution says so;

{"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."}

Not George Soros, your owner. Not Debbie Shultz, the leader of your filthy party, not the unelected dictators of the SCOTUS, but the actual document itself, which I am convinced no forum leftist has ever read.

Yeah, your conspiracy babble about Soros and 'Shultz' isn't the constitutional definition of anything.

So what is 'unreasonable' search and seizure? The 'general welfare'? 'Privileges and immunities'?

By all means, give us the definitions provided by the constitution

I've done this multiple times already. The fact that you pretend like I haven't because you cannot formulate a new argument for why you get to ignore the U.S. Constitution and push your fascist ideology on others doesn't change the reality.

LOL, nice rebuttal. Calling ME a fascist is ridiculous - I'm one of the bleeding hearts. At least I was until your leaders told you to change the story and to find a new pejorative. I really enjoy the new message, when bleeding heart failed you've now been told to call my side of the aisle fascist communist statists.

BTW, I've had ConLaw and my instructor was a lawyer, not a college drop out like Hannity or Limbaugh.

 

[Wry Catcher]

It doesn't even remotely apply. The "Necessary & Proper Clause" applies only to the 18 enumerated powers (just as the Supremacy Clause does). This is from your own link above (did you not read the page before posting it as "proof"?!?):

This clause is known as the Necessary and Proper Clause, although it is not a federal power, in itself.

The Necessary and Proper Clause allows Congress "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the [enumerated] Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States,or in any Department or Officer thereof."

You literally just proved my point for me. Marriage is not one of the 18 enumerated powers, therefore the federal government has zero jurisdiction over it. Therefore the Supreme Court ruling is 100% illegal.

I find it humorous (no - seriously - I really do) how liberals will randomly grab something in the Constitution that they don't even grasp and try to apply it nonsensically in there favor when in fact, all it does is prove that conservatives were right all along.

"... and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States,or in any Department or Officer thereof."

I suppose John Marshall is one of those liberals who randomly grabbed stuff from COTUS too. The powers (necessary and proper) are vested, much as is Marbury v. Madison, a result of the time honored principle of stare decisis; The IX Amendment: "The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people" is sufficient to guarantee the right of the contract of marriage to the LGBT Community, and said right shall be recognized by every state in the union.

Once again....thank you for proving my point for me. The federal government cannot deny someone marriage (gay or otherwise). But they also can't force it on the American people. They have no authority over it so they have to stay out of it.

You either don't comprehend what you are reading here or you are desperately grasping at straws. Either way, with each post your simply supporting what I've already proven to be true.

Please post an example of two men or two women taken by the state and forced to marry. Otherwise, STFU.

Wow....taking nonsensical to a whole new level I see. The issue is not taking people and forcing them to marry - the issue is forcing all states to recognize gay marriage. The federal government has no such authority. Not only have we already proven that by marriage not being one of the 18 enumerated powers, but we can further prove it by a look at the 10th Amendment:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Sorry junior - but once again this is cut & dry. It could not be any more clear. It is illegal for the federal government to force the states to do anything when it comes to marriage. Furthermore, the voters of each individual state have the right to choose whether or not to recognize gay marriage. If the voters of New York do - so be it. If the voters of Oklahoma do not - so be it. That's the entire point of the United States. 50 individual states, controlled by the people, united only in 18 specific, enumerated powers.

Game. Set. Match. Thanks for playing.

Wow – at least you’re consistent at being ignorant and wrong.

The Constitution affords Congress powers both expressed and implied (McCulloch v. Maryland (1819)).

Federal laws, the rulings of Federal courts, and the Federal Constitution are the supreme law of the land, binding on the states and local jurisdictions:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

US Cont., Article VI; see also Cooper v. Aaron (1958)

Consequently, Federal courts do in fact have jurisdiction over the states, and have the authority to invalidate state laws and measures repugnant to the Constitution and its case law, including the 14th Amendment jurisprudence that prohibits the states from denying gay Americans access to marriage law, in violation of the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses of that Amendment.

Thanks. Amazing isn't it, the Crazy Right Wingers can't provide any evidence (such as this ^^^) and continue to post opinions based on the words of Hannity, Limbaugh and The Straw Man.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The FBI was recording the Davidians and their conversation about dousing their own compound with Coleman fuel was happening as law enforcement was tearing down walls and firing tear gas. There's no evidence I'm aware of that Janet Reno was listening live as they carried out their own demise.

So all you have is the word of the killers?
If it was the cops you wouldnt believe em.

Yes, the word of the killers being the Davidians themselves. I heard the audio where they were discussing dousing their own compound with fuel.

It was a mass suicide.

You miserable piece of shit


I want you to provide a link supporting your totally erroneous slanderous post.


.

I asked him for a link...he's got nothing.

Nah, you're not that lucky...

Tape of Cultists Discussing Blaze Played : Trial: Prosecution rests after the recording of Branch Davidians saying, 'Got any fuel?' and 'I want a fire around the back' is heard in the murder case.

Jurors, lawyers, defendants and the judge used headphones Tuesday to listen to about an hour of excerpts from more than 100 hours of tapes made during the standoff.

At 6 a.m. on the day of the fire, an FBI agent began warning by telephone and loudspeaker that armored vehicles were going to rush the compound and tear gas was going to be fired inside.

"Got any fuel?" the transcript quoted a man as saying about 6:10 a.m. About 10 minutes later, the transcript said, another unidentified man asked, " . . . start the fire?"

At 9:20 a.m., the tape quotes Koresh as asking top aide Steven Schneider about "two cans of Coleman fuel." Schneider replied that the cans were empty but said he had "some mineral oil," the transcript said.

"I want a fire around the back," an unidentified voice was quoted as saying at 11:40 a.m.

"Let's keep that fire going" was the last line of the excerpts that jurors heard. Prosecutors said an unidentified man made the remark within 25 minutes of the fire's ignition at 12:07 p.m.​

Do you really expect me to believe the feds after what they did?
Hate to break it to ya but the government lies constantly.
And had they arrested Koresh in town the fire would have never been started in the first place.
I want to hear the tapes. Not hearsay.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

So all you have is the word of the killers?
If it was the cops you wouldnt believe em.

Yes, the word of the killers being the Davidians themselves. I heard the audio where they were discussing dousing their own compound with fuel.

It was a mass suicide.

You miserable piece of shit


I want you to provide a link supporting your totally erroneous slanderous post.


.

Oh? You wanna link?

Sure, here ya go --> link

So ya got nothen....

Of course I do; and of course, I posted it.

But for the record, when someone calls me a POS and demands I do something -- they should expect to be told to fuck off.

And where exactly did I call you POS?

 

[Faun]

Yes, the word of the killers being the Davidians themselves. I heard the audio where they were discussing dousing their own compound with fuel.

It was a mass suicide.

You miserable piece of shit


I want you to provide a link supporting your totally erroneous slanderous post.


.

Oh? You wanna link?

Sure, here ya go --> link

So ya got nothen....

Of course I do; and of course, I posted it.

But for the record, when someone calls me a POS and demands I do something -- they should expect to be told to fuck off.

And where exactly did I call you POS?

You say that like anyone gives a shit what you think.