Leviticus 18-20, yes or no?

[Clyde 154]

Leviticus 18:22 (different versions)

"“Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin."

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: because it is an abomination."

"It is disgusting for a man to have sex with another man."

"“Men, you must not have sexual relations with another man as with a woman. That is a terrible sin!"

And Leviticus 20:10 (different versions)

"If any man commit adultery with the wife of another, and defile his neighbour's wife: let them: be put to death, both the adulterer and the adulteress."

"If anyone will have committed sexual acts with the wife of another, or will have perpetrated adultery with his neighbor's spouse, they shall die a death, both the adulterer and the adulteress."

"If a man commits adultery with the wife of a fellow-Israelite, both he and the woman shall be put to death."

"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."

Two sections of the same part of the Bible. And yet the religious right manages to be extremely anti-gay because of Leviticus 18:22 but will elect a triple adulterer in spite of 20:10.

So, which is it? Are you pro-Leviticus or anti-Leviticus as a Christian?

I always find it amusing when someone charges others of being some type of bigot for wanting to find fault with one group while defending another. The funny part........you are attempting to favor the sin of homosexuality over the sin of adulty when the wages of ALL SIN IS DEATH, and then are charging others of HYPOCRISY.

Everyone sins at some point in their life, either a sin of omission or a sin of commission......and the same penalty applies..... DEATH, unless the Grace of Jesus Christ is accepted and there is a repenting of those sins (turn away).

Do know whether Mr. Trump has made peace with the Lord, has he repented or is he still unrepentant? When did you first notice you had this gift of reading the thoughts of others?


The question is why should anyone apply LAW that was expressly intended for only one peoples on earth? When you study the Holy Scriptures you learn that God as had 3 sets of laws in effect at different periods of time. 1. The Patriarchal 2. The Mosaical and 3. Christ's law

Just like the majority who fail to comprehend these 3 distinctly different laws.......you are not distinguishing the application thereof. Example: The United States system of jurisprudence is founded upon some principles established under British Common Laws.......the majority of which can be found when one studies Blackstone. Would you declare that law drafted expressly for the British Empire was applicable to the citizens of the United States today.......or only that which was carried forward by the citizens of the U.S. from a British foundation?

In other words..........if Law from the Old Law of Moses is not carried over into New Testament Law, its not applicable and is good only as a teaching tool. Its true that both homosexuality and adulty are both taboo in the New Testament.........the penalties that were in effect from the Old Laws no longer apply, we live under the LAW OF GRACE (forgiveness). The only sin that can't be forgiven is a sin that remains UNREPENTANT.

In other words .......... none of the passages that were presented from Leviticus is applicable today as these laws were applicable only to the Hebrew Nation and the scriptures themselves point out this fact.

Deut. 5: 2-3 points out that these early laws was for the nation of Israel only. By following the Old Law the Israelites were bound to God. -- Ex. 19:5-6. The LAW made Israel "distinct" among the world's nation.........no other nation had law such as was reserved for Israel......the Law at that time was preparing the Gentiles of the world for a new Law a new covenant that would be inclusive to everyone. -- Deut 4:5-8

The scriptures point out that these Old Laws were but temporary. -- Jer. 31:31-34. Jesus stated that the Old Law would be in effect only to the point in which He fulfilled or completed it -- Matt. 5:17-18

Jesus' very purpose was to fulfill the Old Law and bring it to an end and usher in a New Law or New Covenant as was prophesied in Jer. 31 (Luke 24:44)

CHRIST IS THE ENDING OF THOSE OLD LAWS (Romans 10:4).

Not really sure what you read to come up with your first paragraph.

Well, if everyone sins, then why do religious people attack gay people way more than others?

The real question is why do supporters of homosexuals "attack" religious people who quote from the text in the Holy Bible that condemns homosexuality? You see the attacks coming from the SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS such the LGBTQ toward religious than the inverse. Proo, who started this thread? And why would anyone attempt to kill the messenger? No one in the 21st century drafted a single word found in the Holy Bible. Thus you are attacking the script found in the word of God as the messenger is blameless......no more guilty than the person who used his keyboard to attack the people who quoted from scriptures. Thus..............the Hypocrisy is more than laughable.

Its much like the old JOKE. I am a member of DAMM (Drunks against Mad Mothers) why is MADD (Mothers against Drunk Drivers) always attacking me?

 

[Clyde 154]

Leviticus 18:22 (different versions)

"“Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin."

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: because it is an abomination."

"It is disgusting for a man to have sex with another man."

"“Men, you must not have sexual relations with another man as with a woman. That is a terrible sin!"

And Leviticus 20:10 (different versions)

"If any man commit adultery with the wife of another, and defile his neighbour's wife: let them: be put to death, both the adulterer and the adulteress."

"If anyone will have committed sexual acts with the wife of another, or will have perpetrated adultery with his neighbor's spouse, they shall die a death, both the adulterer and the adulteress."

"If a man commits adultery with the wife of a fellow-Israelite, both he and the woman shall be put to death."

"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."

Two sections of the same part of the Bible. And yet the religious right manages to be extremely anti-gay because of Leviticus 18:22 but will elect a triple adulterer in spite of 20:10.

So, which is it? Are you pro-Leviticus or anti-Leviticus as a Christian?

I always find it amusing when someone charges others of being some type of bigot for wanting to find fault with one group while defending another. The funny part........you are attempting to favor the sin of homosexuality over the sin of adulty when the wages of ALL SIN IS DEATH, and then are charging others of HYPOCRISY.

Everyone sins at some point in their life, either a sin of omission or a sin of commission......and the same penalty applies..... DEATH, unless the Grace of Jesus Christ is accepted and there is a repenting of those sins (turn away).

Do know whether Mr. Trump has made peace with the Lord, has he repented or is he still unrepentant? When did you first notice you had this gift of reading the thoughts of others?


The question is why should anyone apply LAW that was expressly intended for only one peoples on earth? When you study the Holy Scriptures you learn that God as had 3 sets of laws in effect at different periods of time. 1. The Patriarchal 2. The Mosaical and 3. Christ's law

Just like the majority who fail to comprehend these 3 distinctly different laws.......you are not distinguishing the application thereof. Example: The United States system of jurisprudence is founded upon some principles established under British Common Laws.......the majority of which can be found when one studies Blackstone. Would you declare that law drafted expressly for the British Empire was applicable to the citizens of the United States today.......or only that which was carried forward by the citizens of the U.S. from a British foundation?

In other words..........if Law from the Old Law of Moses is not carried over into New Testament Law, its not applicable and is good only as a teaching tool. Its true that both homosexuality and adulty are both taboo in the New Testament.........the penalties that were in effect from the Old Laws no longer apply, we live under the LAW OF GRACE (forgiveness). The only sin that can't be forgiven is a sin that remains UNREPENTANT.

In other words .......... none of the passages that were presented from Leviticus is applicable today as these laws were applicable only to the Hebrew Nation and the scriptures themselves point out this fact.

Deut. 5: 2-3 points out that these early laws was for the nation of Israel only. By following the Old Law the Israelites were bound to God. -- Ex. 19:5-6. The LAW made Israel "distinct" among the world's nation.........no other nation had law such as was reserved for Israel......the Law at that time was preparing the Gentiles of the world for a new Law a new covenant that would be inclusive to everyone. -- Deut 4:5-8

The scriptures point out that these Old Laws were but temporary. -- Jer. 31:31-34. Jesus stated that the Old Law would be in effect only to the point in which He fulfilled or completed it -- Matt. 5:17-18

Jesus' very purpose was to fulfill the Old Law and bring it to an end and usher in a New Law or New Covenant as was prophesied in Jer. 31 (Luke 24:44)

CHRIST IS THE ENDING OF THOSE OLD LAWS (Romans 10:4).

Not really sure what you read to come up with your first paragraph.

Well, if everyone sins, then why do religious people attack gay people way more than others?

The real question is why do supporters of homosexuals "attack" religious people who quote from the text in the Holy Bible that condemns homosexuality? You see the attacks coming from the SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS such the LGBTQ toward religious more than the inverse. Proof? Just who originated this thread?

Its much like the old JOKE. I am a member of DAMM (Drunks against Mad Mothers) why is MADD (Mothers against Drunk Drivers) always attacking me?

 

[Clyde 154]

I always find it amusing when someone charges others of being some type of bigot for wanting to find fault with one group while defending another.

Christians exhibit their bigotry when they seek to enact secular laws intended to discriminate against gay Americans using their religious beliefs as ‘justification.’

Proving what? That we live in a "free republic" that is populated more by Christians than members of the LGBT(Queers)? In a free society laws are reflected by the social more's established by the majority...........morality is reflected by law not established by law. All the rights in this nation to include all the civil rights came about by the will of THE MAJORITY.

If a majority consensus establishes truth in a position such as Global Warming............can a majority consensus establish truth in relation to homosexuality? If not, WHY NOT? Goose/Gander Pot/Kettle

 

[gipper]

Our secular laws are superior to Christian laws.

We accept homosexuality as a personal choice
We accept all faiths or lack of faith
We accept women as equals
We recognize slavery is wrong

Christian laws make people stupid. Like not wear masks and deny science.

Are you a christophobe too?

 

[ding]

Leviticus 18:22 (different versions)

"“Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin."

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: because it is an abomination."

"It is disgusting for a man to have sex with another man."

"“Men, you must not have sexual relations with another man as with a woman. That is a terrible sin!"

And Leviticus 20:10 (different versions)

"If any man commit adultery with the wife of another, and defile his neighbour's wife: let them: be put to death, both the adulterer and the adulteress."

"If anyone will have committed sexual acts with the wife of another, or will have perpetrated adultery with his neighbor's spouse, they shall die a death, both the adulterer and the adulteress."

"If a man commits adultery with the wife of a fellow-Israelite, both he and the woman shall be put to death."

"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."

Two sections of the same part of the Bible. And yet the religious right manages to be extremely anti-gay because of Leviticus 18:22 but will elect a triple adulterer in spite of 20:10.

So, which is it? Are you pro-Leviticus or anti-Leviticus as a Christian?

This message is not in the original first Bible.

Which message? And even if it's not, then you're saying that Leviticus is to be ignored? i.e. gay people are fine, adulterers are fine, get on with your own life?

Did you ever figure out the context and purpose of Leviticus?

 

[SweetSue92]

I've pointed this out many times.

Christians don't follow all the laws of Leviticus.

They pick and choose.

Moral. Civil. Ceremonial.

It's not that complicated

 

[ding]

Laws Concerning Sexual Behavior.

1The LORD said to Moses:
2Speak to the Israelites and tell them: I, the LORD, am your God.*
3You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you once lived, nor shall you do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you; do not conform to their customs.a
4My decrees you shall carry out, and my statutes you shall take care to follow. I, the LORD, am your God.
5Keep, then, my statutes and decrees, for the person who carries them out will find life* through them. I am the LORD.b
6* None of you shall approach a close relative* to have sexual intercourse. I am the LORD.
7* You shall not disgrace your father by having intercourse with your mother.c She is your own mother; you shall not have intercourse with her.
8You shall not have intercourse with your father’s wife, for that would be a disgrace to your father.
9You shall not have intercourse with your sister,* d your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in your own household or born elsewhere.
10You shall not have intercourse with your son’s daughter or with your daughter’s daughter,* for that would be a disgrace to you.
11You shall not have intercourse with the daughter whom your father’s wife bore to him in his household,e since she, too, is your sister.
12You shall not have intercourse with your father’s sister,f since she is your father’s relative.
13You shall not have intercourse with your mother’s sister, since she is your mother’s relative.
14You shall not disgrace your father’s brother by having sexual relations with his wife,g since she, too, is your aunt.
15You shall not have intercourse with your daughter-in-law;* h she is your son’s wife; you shall not have intercourse with her.
16You shall not have intercourse with your brother’s wife;* i that would be a disgrace to your brother.
17You shall not have intercourse with a woman and also with her daughter, nor shall you marry and have intercourse with her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter;j they are related to her. This would be shameful.
18While your wife is still living you shall not marry her sister as her rival and have intercourse with her.k
19You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she is in her menstrual uncleanness.l
20You shall not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife,* m defiling yourself with her.
21n You shall not offer any of your offspring for immolation to Molech,* thus profaning the name of your God. I am the LORD.
22You shall not lie with a male as with a woman;o such a thing is an abomination.
23You shall not have sexual relations with an animal, defiling yourself with it; nor shall a woman set herself in front of an animal to mate with it; that is perverse.p
24Do not defile yourselves by any of these things, because by them the nations whom I am driving out of your way have defiled themselves.
25And so the land has become defiled, and I have punished it for its wickedness, and the land has vomited out its inhabitants.q
26You, however, must keep my statutes and decrees, avoiding all these abominations, both the natives and the aliens resident among you—
27because the previous inhabitants did all these abominations and the land became defiled;
28otherwise the land will vomit you out also for having defiled it, just as it vomited out the nations before you.
29For whoever does any of these abominations shall be cut off from the people.
30Heed my charge, then, not to observe the abominable customs that have been observed before your time, and thus become impure by them.r I, the LORD, am your God.

 

[rightwinger]

Yet Jesus never condemned slavery. You would think it would be abhorrent to him
He didn’t believe women were his equals
He defended lepers but not homosexuals
He never condemned capitol punishment as a horrible act. Might have helped him at the end

Secular laws are more just

I disagree with your second statement. As for the others...aren't those political positions? Politics didn't seem to be on his radar when Jesus spoke to the crowds.

I believe slavery is a moral position. So is capital punishment

 

[Meriweather]

I believe slavery is a moral position. So is capital punishment

And I believe the more moral position is to free those slaves of yours. As far as the prison system: I think we can do better, but I would certainly begin at the ground up with more minor offenses and work my way up to capital punishment.

 

[rightwinger]

I believe slavery is a moral position. So is capital punishment

And I believe the more moral position is to free those slaves of yours. As far as the prison system: I think we can do better, but I would certainly begin at the ground up with more minor offenses and work my way up to capital punishment.

The correct interpretation is that those humans who wrote the Bible were products of their times. They accepted slavery and Capital Punishment as societal norms and had their Gods accept them too. (What did Jesus think of Capital Punishment while he suffered on the cross?)

 

[bodecea]

I've pointed this out many times.

Christians don't follow all the laws of Leviticus.

It's cafeteria christianity.

 

[Meriweather]

The correct interpretation is that those humans who wrote the Bible were products of their times. They accepted slavery and Capital Punishment as societal norms and had their Gods accept them too.

We agree on this. Mostly. By the time of Christ there were few Jewish slave owners because owning slaves didn't fuse well with other laws about how to treat people.

 

[Meriweather]

It's cafeteria christianity.

When science moves forward it is not called "cafeteria science". As humans learn more about any subject, there is growth and things evolve.

 

[rightwinger]

The correct interpretation is that those humans who wrote the Bible were products of their times. They accepted slavery and Capital Punishment as societal norms and had their Gods accept them too.

We agree on this. Mostly. By the time of Christ there were few Jewish slave owners because owning slaves didn't fuse well with other laws about how to treat people.

You would think that after Christ suffered through capital punishment, early Christians would have forbid it.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well, I'd say there are two choices.

1) Hate on adulterers the same (or worse) than hating on gay people or:
2) Ignore Leviticus and don't hate gay people or adulterers.

Essentially if you voted for Trump, you'd have to be willing to vote for gay people.

Old Testament Law is that there has to be two witnesses to the act of committing adultery or homosexuality. King David: Seven hundred wives; three hundred concubines. He sent one of his generals off to be killed so he could have his wife; he even married his mother-in-law which was strictly forbidden. He did this while king. There were no reports of President Trump committing adultery while President, which cannot be said of two Presidents who were Democrats (Clinton and JFK). In addition, there are elected homosexuals in government, so it appears homosexuals are electable.

A point of etymology with the word 'hate' in the Bible is that it does not have the emotion we attribute to the word now. It's use is often closer to "love less" not "do not love at all".

Are you suggesting that every candidate's sex life be revealed and that we only vote into office those who have a sex life that is acceptable to our own sensibilities? Seems an odd way to elect people into office, wouldn't you agree?

Are you trying to say that you'd vote for a gay person, unless you'd seen him or her having gay sex? Because until they've been SEEN, it didn't happen for you?

Literally, EVERYONE KNOWS Trump cheated on his wives.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Leviticus 18:22 (different versions)

"“Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin."

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: because it is an abomination."

"It is disgusting for a man to have sex with another man."

"“Men, you must not have sexual relations with another man as with a woman. That is a terrible sin!"

And Leviticus 20:10 (different versions)

"If any man commit adultery with the wife of another, and defile his neighbour's wife: let them: be put to death, both the adulterer and the adulteress."

"If anyone will have committed sexual acts with the wife of another, or will have perpetrated adultery with his neighbor's spouse, they shall die a death, both the adulterer and the adulteress."

"If a man commits adultery with the wife of a fellow-Israelite, both he and the woman shall be put to death."

"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."

Two sections of the same part of the Bible. And yet the religious right manages to be extremely anti-gay because of Leviticus 18:22 but will elect a triple adulterer in spite of 20:10.

So, which is it? Are you pro-Leviticus or anti-Leviticus as a Christian?

I always find it amusing when someone charges others of being some type of bigot for wanting to find fault with one group while defending another. The funny part........you are attempting to favor the sin of homosexuality over the sin of adulty when the wages of ALL SIN IS DEATH, and then are charging others of HYPOCRISY.

Everyone sins at some point in their life, either a sin of omission or a sin of commission......and the same penalty applies..... DEATH, unless the Grace of Jesus Christ is accepted and there is a repenting of those sins (turn away).

Do know whether Mr. Trump has made peace with the Lord, has he repented or is he still unrepentant? When did you first notice you had this gift of reading the thoughts of others?


The question is why should anyone apply LAW that was expressly intended for only one peoples on earth? When you study the Holy Scriptures you learn that God as had 3 sets of laws in effect at different periods of time. 1. The Patriarchal 2. The Mosaical and 3. Christ's law

Just like the majority who fail to comprehend these 3 distinctly different laws.......you are not distinguishing the application thereof. Example: The United States system of jurisprudence is founded upon some principles established under British Common Laws.......the majority of which can be found when one studies Blackstone. Would you declare that law drafted expressly for the British Empire was applicable to the citizens of the United States today.......or only that which was carried forward by the citizens of the U.S. from a British foundation?

In other words..........if Law from the Old Law of Moses is not carried over into New Testament Law, its not applicable and is good only as a teaching tool. Its true that both homosexuality and adulty are both taboo in the New Testament.........the penalties that were in effect from the Old Laws no longer apply, we live under the LAW OF GRACE (forgiveness). The only sin that can't be forgiven is a sin that remains UNREPENTANT.

In other words .......... none of the passages that were presented from Leviticus is applicable today as these laws were applicable only to the Hebrew Nation and the scriptures themselves point out this fact.

Deut. 5: 2-3 points out that these early laws was for the nation of Israel only. By following the Old Law the Israelites were bound to God. -- Ex. 19:5-6. The LAW made Israel "distinct" among the world's nation.........no other nation had law such as was reserved for Israel......the Law at that time was preparing the Gentiles of the world for a new Law a new covenant that would be inclusive to everyone. -- Deut 4:5-8

The scriptures point out that these Old Laws were but temporary. -- Jer. 31:31-34. Jesus stated that the Old Law would be in effect only to the point in which He fulfilled or completed it -- Matt. 5:17-18

Jesus' very purpose was to fulfill the Old Law and bring it to an end and usher in a New Law or New Covenant as was prophesied in Jer. 31 (Luke 24:44)

CHRIST IS THE ENDING OF THOSE OLD LAWS (Romans 10:4).

Not really sure what you read to come up with your first paragraph.

Well, if everyone sins, then why do religious people attack gay people way more than others?

The real question is why do supporters of homosexuals "attack" religious people who quote from the text in the Holy Bible that condemns homosexuality? You see the attacks coming from the SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS such the LGBTQ toward religious than the inverse. Proo, who started this thread? And why would anyone attempt to kill the messenger? No one in the 21st century drafted a single word found in the Holy Bible. Thus you are attacking the script found in the word of God as the messenger is blameless......no more guilty than the person who used his keyboard to attack the people who quoted from scriptures. Thus..............the Hypocrisy is more than laughable.

Its much like the old JOKE. I am a member of DAMM (Drunks against Mad Mothers) why is MADD (Mothers against Drunk Drivers) always attacking me?

Yeah, the real question is, why do people, in a country which has everyone as equal, attack bigots who want to stop everyone from being equal?

It's beyond belief for me that people wouldn't want to be slaves. I just don't understand why you wouldn't want to work for free for me. Crazy really.

 

[Meriweather]

Are you trying to say that you'd vote for a gay person, unless you'd seen him or her having gay sex? Because until they've been SEEN, it didn't happen for you?

Naturally, I am not saying that. What an idea. I merely brought up a point of Hebrew law at the time of Leviticus. It seems Old Testament law, in these cases, protected homosexuals, even though the result was making them what we call "closet homosexuals". Wonder how many people "knew" who were homosexuals, but let the matter be? In my experience, people as a whole are generally kind, although enough humans are also incredibly cruel.

 

[Meriweather]

Literally, EVERYONE KNOWS Trump cheated on his wives.

Why does that make it any of my business?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

This fails as a red herring fallacy.

Not at all. Even so, I am interested in your reasoning for your declaration.

You failed to respond to the OP’s question, electing to deflect instead – known as a red herring.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Leviticus 18:22 (different versions)

"“Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin."

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: because it is an abomination."

"It is disgusting for a man to have sex with another man."

"“Men, you must not have sexual relations with another man as with a woman. That is a terrible sin!"

And Leviticus 20:10 (different versions)

"If any man commit adultery with the wife of another, and defile his neighbour's wife: let them: be put to death, both the adulterer and the adulteress."

"If anyone will have committed sexual acts with the wife of another, or will have perpetrated adultery with his neighbor's spouse, they shall die a death, both the adulterer and the adulteress."

"If a man commits adultery with the wife of a fellow-Israelite, both he and the woman shall be put to death."

"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."

Two sections of the same part of the Bible. And yet the religious right manages to be extremely anti-gay because of Leviticus 18:22 but will elect a triple adulterer in spite of 20:10.

So, which is it? Are you pro-Leviticus or anti-Leviticus as a Christian?

God FORGIVES THE REPENTANT even if a Biden voter wont.

And why do you point out the splinter in Trump's eye while ignoring the log in the eye of the rapist you voted for?