Message to Libertarians and others: The founding fathers believed in regulation

[Procrustes Stretched]

Message to Libertarians and others: The founding fathers believed in regulation

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Madison as well as Hamilton believed the nation needed a strong and more powerful central government than had previously existed. Federalist papers?

So why are people who are hostile to regulation like the Federalist Society always claiming to be the heirs of the traditions and ideals of Madison and Hamilton as well as claiming them as their inspiration and role models?

I understand the clueless, ill-educated here and elsewhere on the web making such ridiculous and absurd errors, but...

Unfortunately for you, regulated was an all to common term used in the 1700s, as it generally referred to something being in proper order, calibrated, and functioning correctly. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only NOT the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so by the Founders. It helps to first look at how the term was properly used during the time to which it was written.

Section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;


Section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Message to Libertarians and others: The founding fathers believed in regulation

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Madison as well as Hamilton believed the nation needed a strong and more powerful central government than had previously existed. Federalist papers?

So why are people who are hostile to regulation like the Federalist Society always claiming to be the heirs of the traditions and ideals of Madison and Hamilton as well as claiming them as their inspiration and role models?

I understand the clueless, ill-educated here and elsewhere on the web making such ridiculous and absurd errors, but...

Unfortunately for you, regulated was an all to common term used in the 1700s, as it generally referred to something being in proper order, calibrated, and functioning correctly. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only NOT the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so by the Founders. It helps to first look at how the term was properly used during the time to which it was written.

Section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;


Section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes

I already whipped your ass with this post. You may want to reconsider posting it again.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ers-believed-in-regulation-5.html#post8679328

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Unfortunately for you, regulated was an all to common term used in the 1700s, as it generally referred to something being in proper order, calibrated, and functioning correctly. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only NOT the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so by the Founders. It helps to first look at how the term was properly used during the time to which it was written.

Section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;


Section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes

I already whipped your ass with this post. You may want to reconsider posting it again.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ers-believed-in-regulation-5.html#post8679328

stop playing the house idjit

that title belongs to others more deserving than you

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;


Section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes

I already whipped your ass with this post. You may want to reconsider posting it again.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ers-believed-in-regulation-5.html#post8679328

stop playing the house idjit

that title belongs to others more deserving than you

Yet you have nothing. If I'm so stupid you should easily put me in my place. I'm still waiting for that moment...like it would ever come.

 

[regent]

In our early history we were still experimenting somewhat. We had a new government and it was not always possible to carry out one's liberalism or conservatism in total. Jefferson changed his tune somewhat about government when he became the goverment, it may have become less fearful. And Jefferson went out on a limb with Louisiana. Conditions are constantly changing and govenment keeps changing to meet those changing conditions.
Come to think of it, I bet a case could be made that every administration including Washington's have experimented with the limits of government.

 

[norwegen]

Yes and if it wasn't for the people like Hamilton we would have never been ready for the industrial revolution. If little Tommie Jefferson had his way we would have been a backwards agricultural utopia like Russia

Jefferson did have his way. He undid much of what the Federalists did. After his administration, the only exposure most Americans had to the federal government was mail delivery. The succeeding Republican administrations carried that mantle. In the end, Hamilton proved ineffective.

Take a few history classes.

Jefferson was a pragmatist and hypocrite. He used a Hamiltonian tool to purchase Louie and grow America. Every time we got into trouble a Hamiltonian solution got us out of it ( History of central banking in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )

Jefferson let the charter for the First Bank of the United States expire (from your link). He undid Hamilton's work.

Madison carried the Republican mantle, as I said, and vetoed a bill chartering a second bank. He reluctantly changed his mind because the war with Britain was so expensive.

And I think I called Hamilton a Secretary of State earlier. I meant to say Secretary of Treasury. He was a central bank sort of fellow, after all. Before this post, I posted without researching, so I may have confused some details here and there. My apologies

I don't know where you get this "pragmatist and hypocrite" nonsense. Obviously, Jefferson grew America. But he shrank America's government, even the military.

 

[Doubletap]

"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - When you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - When you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don’t protect you against them, but protect them against you - When you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice - You may know that your society is doomed."-John Galt

 

[Quantum Windbag]

@Quantum Windbag

Message to Dante

They also believed in monopolies. You can't argue for the regulation they believed in unless you also argue for the markets they believed in.

certain monopolies are cool. monopolies are regulated

the markets today do not resemble the markets of hundreds of years ago and only a fool would speak as you do

Let me explain a fact of life to you, monopolies are always bad.

 

[norwegen]

@Quantum Windbag

Message to Dante

They also believed in monopolies. You can't argue for the regulation they believed in unless you also argue for the markets they believed in.

certain monopolies are cool. monopolies are regulated

the markets today do not resemble the markets of hundreds of years ago and only a fool would speak as you do

Let me explain a fact of life to you, monopolies are always bad.

Boardwalk and Park Place are good. I always try to get those properties.

 

[Wildman]

Message to Libertarians and others: The founding fathers believed in regulation

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Madison as well as Hamilton believed the nation needed a strong and more powerful central government than had previously existed. Federalist papers?

So why are people who are hostile to regulation like the Federalist Society always claiming to be the heirs of the traditions and ideals of Madison and Hamilton as well as claiming them as their inspiration and role models?

I understand the clueless, ill-educated here and elsewhere on the web making such ridiculous and absurd errors, but...

I understand you are the clueless !

why is it that you people have such a hard time grasping onto the FACT that the word "REGULATED" has meanings, descriptions and definitions that liberal gun hating slopeheads fail to grasp onto.

 

[History]

Message to Libertarians and others: The founding fathers believed in regulation

What libertarian has said there shouldn't be any regulation, Dainty?

The ones that fight all regulation. Wake up

There's a difference in federal and state regulation.. Federal regulation is power grabbing, such as the new health care law.. Libertarians believe the states should be the ones to enforce such laws.. Not the federal government..

So Dante, before you start trying to down Libertarians for no reason, do more research on the party you claim wants absolutely no regulations.. And look, you don't have to make a thread to tell us Leftists love power grabs, trust me, we already know you do..

The Constitution is the guideline you nust follow, however harsh that may be for a hardcore liberal.. If you can't trust people with freedom, how can you trust government with power??

What just went on in Ukraine happened without a 2nd Amendment right..

 

[ScienceRocks]

@Quantum Windbag

Message to Dante

They also believed in monopolies. You can't argue for the regulation they believed in unless you also argue for the markets they believed in.

certain monopolies are cool. monopolies are regulated

the markets today do not resemble the markets of hundreds of years ago and only a fool would speak as you do

Let me explain a fact of life to you, monopolies are always bad.

So you agree as I do that the government needs to regulate.

 

[ScienceRocks]

You do realize that corporations are in all states? So the only way to regulate within ONE market that makes up the American market is for the feds to do it.

There isn't a separate market for each state.

 

[norwegen]

Message to Libertarians and others: The founding fathers believed in regulation

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Madison as well as Hamilton believed the nation needed a strong and more powerful central government than had previously existed. Federalist papers?

So why are people who are hostile to regulation like the Federalist Society always claiming to be the heirs of the traditions and ideals of Madison and Hamilton as well as claiming them as their inspiration and role models?

I understand the clueless, ill-educated here and elsewhere on the web making such ridiculous and absurd errors, but...

I understand you are the clueless !

why is it that you people have such a hard time grasping onto the FACT that the word "REGULATED" has meanings, descriptions and definitions that liberal gun hating slopeheads fail to grasp onto.

You'd think that if the constitutional definition of regulate was to burden with legislation, the first and second congresses might have done some gun legislating.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

@Quantum Windbag

certain monopolies are cool. monopolies are regulated

the markets today do not resemble the markets of hundreds of years ago and only a fool would speak as you do

Let me explain a fact of life to you, monopolies are always bad.

Boardwalk and Park Place are good. I always try to get those properties.

You would be better off if you get the orange and red around Free Parking.

 

[blackhawk]

Did the Founding Fathers believe in over regulation? Somehow I think not.

 

[History]

We want to keep Democrats out of your Wallet and Republicans out of your Bedroom..

 

[History]

You do realize that corporations are in all states? So the only way to regulate within ONE market that makes up the American market is for the feds to do it.

There isn't a separate market for each state.

Well of course there are some things for the federal side to regulate but not Everything, especially healthcare

 

[Chuckt]

Indeed. It did not mean regulated by the federal government at all.

For you and every other conservative.

U.S. Constitution | Constitution | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

Do yourselves a favor.

Take an hour or two.

And read it.

Show me where well regulated means under government control.

The Revolutionary War was fought over taxes. Our government sought to control them.

 

[bripat9643]

Message to Libertarians and others: The founding fathers believed in regulation

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Madison as well as Hamilton believed the nation needed a strong and more powerful central government than had previously existed. Federalist papers?

So why are people who are hostile to regulation like the Federalist Society always claiming to be the heirs of the traditions and ideals of Madison and Hamilton as well as claiming them as their inspiration and role models?

I understand the clueless, ill-educated here and elsewhere on the web making such ridiculous and absurd errors, but...

"Well regulated" doesn't mean what you think it means. In that era "well regulated" meant "well trained" or "well disciplined."

Once again, you FAIL.