Miss USA suggest women defend themselves

[Disir]

I hate twitter. I really do. Talk about blowing crap out of proportion. Here let me kick out a 140 character response to an answer given by someone else on a time limit with a fourth degree black belt in taekwondo that can't respond to the tweets or give a lengthy tweet back at the time.

The information that is given via the campuses is that there is no one true way, it's use whatever means necessary including fighting back. Fighting back may not be an option. Then again, it just might. It's going to depend on the situation.

Now, if you read through the tweets you find not just what was already mentioned (shouldn't have to defend myself), but also that this is a problem that needs to be addressed from beyond the immediate crisis.

Now, mind you that the question and answers were geared towards campuses.
Johns Hopkins Suspends PIKE Fraternity Following Stabbing, Gang Rape Allegation, Underage Drinking


Six Waco Men Charged After Underage Girl Gang Raped

Georgia teens charged in connection with after-prom rape at remote cabin party: police* - NY Daily News

Volunteer coach gets 10 days in Steubenville rape case - CNN.com

So, ya it's about a culture. And there is nothing wrong with the response given by Nia Sanchez. Nothing.

I give it about 12 hours before somebody whips out the also very true what about the sexual assault and rape of men but attempts to polarize it as if it is a one or the other issue. The interwebs never disappoint an opportunity to not really discuss anything.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

One thing to note is that studies have shown when a woman is sexually assaulted and fights back, she is more likely to be injured or killed. Studies have shown if she is able to talk her way out of it or just let it happen, she is more likely to survive. When I was the 'victim' of an attempted rape, I talked my way out of it: that happened by instinct, not any kind of plan.

I think it is a good idea for women to have real self defense abilities: too often, however, a woman will take a few lessons, then forget half of what she learned and not practice it on an ongoing basis, so when the time to use it occurs, her self defense skills may help her, or they may be to her detriment.

The better option is to get at the problem of men being violent toward women. To solve that problem. Or are we just considering it as unsolvable?

A very real problem is that so many on the right are saying most rapes don't really happen. As usual the R is leading us back to the Dark Ages and RW sheep are following right along.

 

[martybegan]

One thing to note is that studies have shown when a woman is sexually assaulted and fights back, she is more likely to be injured or killed. Studies have shown if she is able to talk her way out of it or just let it happen, she is more likely to survive. When I was the 'victim' of an attempted rape, I talked my way out of it: that happened by instinct, not any kind of plan.

I think it is a good idea for women to have real self defense abilities: too often, however, a woman will take a few lessons, then forget half of what she learned and not practice it on an ongoing basis, so when the time to use it occurs, her self defense skills may help her, or they may be to her detriment.

The better option is to get at the problem of men being violent toward women. To solve that problem. Or are we just considering it as unsolvable?

A very real problem is that so many on the right are saying most rapes don't really happen. As usual the R is leading us back to the Dark Ages and RW sheep are following right along.

If two people are drunk, have sex, and in the morning the woman sobers up and regrets it, is it rape?

The issue isn't rape itself, its the goalpost moving on the definition of rape.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Twitter freaks out.

?Rape culture wins?: Feminist freakout after Miss Nevada dares suggest self defense training for women | Twitchy

I have to admit, this doesn't make sense even if I factor in Male Privilege.

You didn't read the actual Twitter comments then didja? You would have read their common theme, which is - "why should women have to defend against an act that shouldn't be committed in the first place?"

Think of it this way: it's the difference between addressing gun violence with gun control, and addressing it by changing the culture of violence. In this analogy, you appear to be on the side of gun control.

This same story was posted by Templar_Kormac. I didn't have a clue what the fuck he was talking about. Youse guys should read your own links. That's what they're there for.

I did read the comments, which is why I know you are picking out the ones that seem sane to you. Your problem is that you are approaching this believing that any of these people are sane.

Now, for the record, the actual comments were along the lines that she is promoting rape culture. Rape culture, in case you are unfamiliar with the term, is the belief that sexual violence is the result of white privilege. White men, apparently, have a belief that all women are subject to their whims. And, believe it or not, there are actually people out there that believe it is impossible to have consensual sex because all sex is rape in a rape culture.

But, please, keep enlightening me with your stupidity, it makes me feel so much better to mock you when I know I can't even match my worst performance at some of my favorite games.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Exactly. Defeatists are good at one thing: throwing up their hands.

Then solve it.

Exactly.

Seeing such a weird perspective not only posted but posted more than once tells me some posters here must be getting paid to troll for even the most far-fetched droppings of the demagogue mill and just pass on whatever they're fed without even reading the content. Trying to make a story out of Twitter comments? Really? And then not bothering to even read them? Pathetic.

I get paid for this?

When do I get my first check?


By the way, oh he is so smart he keeps painting himself into a corner, whinging about the fact that other people are mocking you is not the answer to challenge you were given.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

One thing to note is that studies have shown when a woman is sexually assaulted and fights back, she is more likely to be injured or killed. Studies have shown if she is able to talk her way out of it or just let it happen, she is more likely to survive. When I was the 'victim' of an attempted rape, I talked my way out of it: that happened by instinct, not any kind of plan.

I think it is a good idea for women to have real self defense abilities: too often, however, a woman will take a few lessons, then forget half of what she learned and not practice it on an ongoing basis, so when the time to use it occurs, her self defense skills may help her, or they may be to her detriment.

The better option is to get at the problem of men being violent toward women. To solve that problem. Or are we just considering it as unsolvable?

A very real problem is that so many on the right are saying most rapes don't really happen. As usual the R is leading us back to the Dark Ages and RW sheep are following right along.

This is not a partisan issue, fuckwad. There is a very small group of people that believe crap like that, but they are a fringe element. As far as I know, they are as likely to vote Democrat as they are Republican. In fact, if I were to apply my personal experience, I would say they were slightly more likely to vote Democrat. You trying to turn it into a large group of people on the right just makes you look stupid.

 

[Pogo]

Twitter freaks out.

?Rape culture wins?: Feminist freakout after Miss Nevada dares suggest self defense training for women | Twitchy

I have to admit, this doesn't make sense even if I factor in Male Privilege.

You didn't read the actual Twitter comments then didja? You would have read their common theme, which is - "why should women have to defend against an act that shouldn't be committed in the first place?"

Think of it this way: it's the difference between addressing gun violence with gun control, and addressing it by changing the culture of violence. In this analogy, you appear to be on the side of gun control.

This same story was posted by Templar_Kormac. I didn't have a clue what the fuck he was talking about. Youse guys should read your own links. That's what they're there for.

I did read the comments, which is why I know you are picking out the ones that seem sane to you. Your problem is that you are approaching this believing that any of these people are sane.

To the extent that anyone who gives Twitter the time of day is "sane", I simply read what they wrote in the linked article and figured it out. Not rocket surgery.

Now, for the record, the actual comments were along the lines that she is promoting rape culture. Rape culture, in case you are unfamiliar with the term, is the belief that sexual violence is the result of white privilege. White men, apparently, have a belief that all women are subject to their whims. And, believe it or not, there are actually people out there that believe it is impossible to have consensual sex because all sex is rape in a rape culture.

No, I didn't see anything remotely like that nor have I heard that before. But it doesn't escape me that I'm talking to a guy who just makes up alleged experiences as he goes along so...

But, please, keep enlightening me with your stupidity, it makes me feel so much better to mock you when I know I can't even match my worst performance at some of my favorite games.

Please to bite my ass. You posted a mindless piece of nothing story about Twitter, of all nonentities, and then claimed not to understand what was being said, so I explained it. You're welcome.

Now go fuck yourself, with or without a rape culture.

 

[Pogo]

Then solve it.

Exactly.

Seeing such a weird perspective not only posted but posted more than once tells me some posters here must be getting paid to troll for even the most far-fetched droppings of the demagogue mill and just pass on whatever they're fed without even reading the content. Trying to make a story out of Twitter comments? Really? And then not bothering to even read them? Pathetic.

I get paid for this?

When do I get my first check?

I sure hope you get paid for that because otherwise you'd have to admit to posting this mindless drivel voluntarily. I mean, this is down in NovaSteve territory.

By the way, oh he is so smart he keeps painting himself into a corner, whinging about the fact that other people are mocking you is not the answer to challenge you were given.

It's cute how you write in pidgin. Now try English.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You didn't read the actual Twitter comments then didja? You would have read their common theme, which is - "why should women have to defend against an act that shouldn't be committed in the first place?"

Think of it this way: it's the difference between addressing gun violence with gun control, and addressing it by changing the culture of violence. In this analogy, you appear to be on the side of gun control.

This same story was posted by Templar_Kormac. I didn't have a clue what the fuck he was talking about. Youse guys should read your own links. That's what they're there for.

I did read the comments, which is why I know you are picking out the ones that seem sane to you. Your problem is that you are approaching this believing that any of these people are sane.

To the extent that anyone who gives Twitter the time of day is "sane", I simply read what they wrote in the linked article and figured it out. Not rocket surgery.

Now, for the record, the actual comments were along the lines that she is promoting rape culture. Rape culture, in case you are unfamiliar with the term, is the belief that sexual violence is the result of white privilege. White men, apparently, have a belief that all women are subject to their whims. And, believe it or not, there are actually people out there that believe it is impossible to have consensual sex because all sex is rape in a rape culture.

No, I didn't see anything remotely like that nor have I heard that before. But it doesn't escape me that I'm talking to a guy who just makes up alleged experiences as he goes along so...

But, please, keep enlightening me with your stupidity, it makes me feel so much better to mock you when I know I can't even match my worst performance at some of my favorite games.

Please to bite my ass. You posted a mindless piece of nothing story about Twitter, of all nonentities, and then claimed not to understand what was being said, so I explained it. You're welcome.

Now go fuck yourself, with or without a rape culture.

You didn't see anything like that? Is that because you didn't actually look at the Tweets?

Never mind, we all know the answer.

 

[Godboy]

Sorry ladies, but the vast majority of you will never stand a chance against a man. I dont care what belt you recieve at your local karate dojo, youll still lose in a physical altercation with a man. You MIGHT have a chance if you are extremely well versed in grappling, but you are going to get your ass handed to you in an actual fist fight. Are you bigger than most girls? Trust me, your size wont matter when you get punched in the mouth.

Learning martial arts can actually be a hindrence to women. It can build up a false sense of security. Take my advice, you are much better off just getting a gun.

 

[Pogo]

I did read the comments, which is why I know you are picking out the ones that seem sane to you. Your problem is that you are approaching this believing that any of these people are sane.

To the extent that anyone who gives Twitter the time of day is "sane", I simply read what they wrote in the linked article and figured it out. Not rocket surgery.



No, I didn't see anything remotely like that nor have I heard that before. But it doesn't escape me that I'm talking to a guy who just makes up alleged experiences as he goes along so...

But, please, keep enlightening me with your stupidity, it makes me feel so much better to mock you when I know I can't even match my worst performance at some of my favorite games.

Please to bite my ass. You posted a mindless piece of nothing story about Twitter, of all nonentities, and then claimed not to understand what was being said, so I explained it. You're welcome.

Now go fuck yourself, with or without a rape culture.

You didn't see anything like that? Is that because you didn't actually look at the Tweets?

Never mind, we all know the answer.

Riiiight, I "didn't actually look at them" and that's how I knew what to explain them to your dimbulb ass in my first post here. Think about it.

I had to word-search to find any reference to "rape culture" at all, so I don't know what ass you're pulling this from but it's clearly not a recurring theme there. I do see it in the headline on a site called "Twitchy Entertainment", which is apparently all it takes to impress the likes of you...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

To the extent that anyone who gives Twitter the time of day is "sane", I simply read what they wrote in the linked article and figured it out. Not rocket surgery.



No, I didn't see anything remotely like that nor have I heard that before. But it doesn't escape me that I'm talking to a guy who just makes up alleged experiences as he goes along so...



Please to bite my ass. You posted a mindless piece of nothing story about Twitter, of all nonentities, and then claimed not to understand what was being said, so I explained it. You're welcome.

Now go fuck yourself, with or without a rape culture.

You didn't see anything like that? Is that because you didn't actually look at the Tweets?

Never mind, we all know the answer.

Riiiight, I "didn't actually look at them" and that's how I knew what to explain them to your dimbulb ass in my first post here. Think about it.

I had to word-search to find any reference to "rape culture" at all, so I don't know what ass you're pulling this from but it's clearly not a recurring theme there. I do see it in the headline on a site called "Twitchy Entertainment", which is apparently all it takes to impress the likes of you...

Let me help you.

This is where you go to read Tweets. Since all you actually did is read the OP you didn't actually read the Tweets.

https://twitter.com/search?q=#missusa self defense&src=tyah

 

[whitehall]

The dirty little secret is that modern women need to defend themselves not only against sexual violence but they need to defend themselves against the intimidation by the fathers of their unborn children to force them to murder the life they helped to create.

 

[Pogo]

You didn't see anything like that? Is that because you didn't actually look at the Tweets?

Never mind, we all know the answer.

Riiiight, I "didn't actually look at them" and that's how I knew what to explain them to your dimbulb ass in my first post here. Think about it.

I had to word-search to find any reference to "rape culture" at all, so I don't know what ass you're pulling this from but it's clearly not a recurring theme there. I do see it in the headline on a site called "Twitchy Entertainment", which is apparently all it takes to impress the likes of you...

Let me help you.

This is where you go to read Tweets. Since all you actually did is read the OP you didn't actually read the Tweets.

https://twitter.com/search?q=#missusa self defense&src=tyah

Uh -- the OP link is what your entire thread is based on. Now you want to change your whole basis? I gotta remember that one next time I start a thread declaring the sky is blue and you come in to argue for the sake of arguing.

What I saw is women protesting that as the target of rape the onus should not be on them to take the remedial action, but on the rapist who perpetrates it. Hence, the idea is to change hearts and minds.

--- Which is exactly the point YOU just made about Martin Luther King in that other thread. In this thread you had no idea what they were talking about; in that one you suddenly turn into an expert on the concept inside of fifteen minutes.

I need some Dramamine...

 

[williepete]

For the ladies reading this thread, I'd like to offer this bit of experience.

In my community, our police department offers a free women's self-defense course. I asked my lovely bride to take it and she was sweet enough to work it into her busy after work schedule.

She learned a great deal. The top lesson she learned wasn't the hand-to-hand fighting techniques which are very effective and easy to learn with a bit of practice. The most important lesson she took away from the class was situational awareness. She now stands a far better chance of never having to use her fighting skills because she is more knowledgeable of dangerous situations and she now keeps a closer eye on her surroundings.

The course emphasizes situational awareness. It teaches ladies TO CONTROL THEIR PHYSICAL ENVIRONMENT.

For the ladies reading this, please give it a thought. You are very valuable to your loved ones. Learn to stay out of trouble. If you get into trouble, learn how to get out of it. After you take the course, recommend it to others. And most importantly, go back for a refresher once a year or so.

My Kentucky red head is frisky and feisty inwardly but very feminine and girly outwardly. It's now funny I thought she'd come out of the course with a Bruce Lee wup azz attitude but that was not the case. She's still the demure, quiet little lady. Only she knows that under the calm exterior lurks dynamite. I can barely see it in her eyes but just barely. She was confident before. Now, she's confident with training. I still worry about her but now I feel a little better knowing she's been trained by professional self-defense instructors.

That and she packs a .357.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Riiiight, I "didn't actually look at them" and that's how I knew what to explain them to your dimbulb ass in my first post here. Think about it.

I had to word-search to find any reference to "rape culture" at all, so I don't know what ass you're pulling this from but it's clearly not a recurring theme there. I do see it in the headline on a site called "Twitchy Entertainment", which is apparently all it takes to impress the likes of you...

Let me help you.

This is where you go to read Tweets. Since all you actually did is read the OP you didn't actually read the Tweets.

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23missusa%20self%20defense&src=tyah

Uh -- the OP link is what your entire thread is based on. Now you want to change your whole basis? I gotta remember that one next time I start a thread declaring the sky is blue and you come in to argue for the sake of arguing.

What I saw is women protesting that as the target of rape the onus should not be on them to take the remedial action, but on the rapist who perpetrates it. Hence, the idea is to change hearts and minds.

--- Which is exactly the point YOU just made about Martin Luther King in that other thread. In this thread you had no idea what they were talking about; in that one you suddenly turn into an expert on the concept inside of fifteen minutes.

I need some Dramamine...

Actually, most of the thread is about you being an idiot.

As for your ranting, let me explain why you, as usual, have your head up your ass. There is nothing in American culture that in any way, shape, or form, glorifies, or even excuses, rape. In other words, the battle for the hearts and minds is already won. Unless you can point to something that I am unaware, you are just wrong.

As for the King thread, if you were half as smart as you pretend you are you would demanding evidence from the asshole racist that started the thread that the only way any white man ever likes a black man is if he prostrates himself. All I did was post a King speech that directly contradicted his lie that the civil rights movement was not about changing hearts, it was, and it actually worked, which is why racism is no longer the problem it was.

Like I said earlier, feel free to entertain me with your stupidity, it takes my mind off the real problems I have.h

 

[Esmeralda]

common myths about rape

Here are some of the most common myths that surround rape and sexual assault:

Myth Do not go out alone at any time. Women are most likely to be raped outside, in dark alleyways late at night. This is the best way for a woman to protect herself.

Fact The suggestion of avoiding walking alone, especially at night is a common suggestion to avoiding sexual assault. However, only 9% of rapes are committed by 'strangers'. Women are raped in their homes and in their work places where they are less likely to be believed and even less likely to report. This myth can control movements and restricts freedom. This can feel like women are living under a 'curfew' and that it is a woman's responsibility to be either in or out at certain times. Around 90% of rapes are committed by known men.


Myth Women who are sexually assaulted 'ask for it' by the way they dress or act, rape only happens to young women.

Fact Many women are led to believe that if they are not part of a certain category of women then they are 'safe' from being raped. Women and girls of all ages, classes, culture, ability, sexuality, race and faith are raped. Attractiveness has little significance. Reports show that there is a great diversity in the way targeted women act or dress. Rapists choose women based on their vulnerability not their physical appearance.

Sometimes women see themselves as 'unworthy' or 'undesirable' because of their age or physical appearance and therefore 'safe' from rape. Some men joke or make comments about women's appearances or age to indicate whether she is sexually desirable or available, or as part of their defence in court, saying he thought 'he was doing her a favour', using her appearance or age. Women are raped from the age of three to ninety three. Rape is an act of violence not sex.




Myth Everyone knows when a woman says no, she often means yes. Women secretly want to be raped.

Fact Rape is a terrifying, violent and humiliating experience that no woman wants or asks for. Legally a person has the right to change their mind about having sex at any point of sexual contact. If a sexual partner does not stop at the time a person says no, this is sexual assault. If a person is in a relationship with someone or has had sex with a person before, this does not mean that they cannot be assaulted by that person. Consent must be given every time two people engage in sexual contact. Sex without consent is rape.




Myth The women was drunk / took drugs / had a bad reputation / was hitch hiking / wore tight clothes / seduced him / probably got what she was asking for.

Fact If a person is unconscious or their judgement is impaired by alcohol or drugs, legally they are unable to give consent. Having non-consensual sex with a person who is intoxicated is sexual assault.

Rapists use a variety of excuses to attempt to discredit the women they rape and to justify their crime. No woman asks or deserves to be rape or sexually assaulted. Often a rape case is defined more by the woman's character than by what has happened to her. Newspapers and mass media often refer to women in the roles that they have within society - 'young mother', 'grandmother', 'doctor's wife' etc. If the woman's role or social position is not seen as socially acceptable, she is often held responsible not the rapist. For example, the original 'Jack the Ripper' and Sutcliffe in the late 70's and 80's were glorified by the press. (Jack the ripper has his books, museum, cocktails, computer games and even tourist walks in London named after him where you can visit the places women were murdered!)

The rules imposed on women's behaviour allow rapists to shift the responsibility for rape onto women wherever possible, so that most of the perpetrators who rape are seen as victims of malicious allegations, carelessness or stupidity. There is no other crime in which so much effort is expended to make the victim appear responsible - imagine the character or financial background of a robbery victim being questioned in court.




Myth Women eventually relax and enjoy it. They secretly want to be raped

Fact There is a widely held belief that women enjoy rape or that it is 'just sex at the wrong time, in the wrong place'. Rape is a crime of sexual violence and humiliation which can involve being beaten, physical restraint, the use of knifes and sticks, urination and defecating. Studies have consistently shown that most rapes involve physical force to some degree. Often when a woman is raped she is afraid that she will be killed - rapists often use the threat of killing a woman or her children to ensure her 'submission' and her silence after the attack. Women do not enjoy sexual violence. Victims of murder, robbery and other crimes are never portrayed as enjoying the experience.




Myth The woman did not get hurt or fight back. It could not have been rape.

Fact Men who rape or sexually assault women and girls will often use weapons or threats of violence to intimidate women. The fact that there is no visible evidence of violence does not mean that a woman has not been raped.

Another myth that goes hand in hand with this is that ' rape is a fate worse than death' and this links with the belief that women should fight and resist throughout. Faced with the reality of rape, women make second by second decisions, all of which are directed at minimising the harm done to them. At the point where initial resistance, struggling, reasoning etc have failed, the fear of further violence often limits women's resistance. The only form of control that seems available to women at this point is limiting the harm done to them.




Myth Men of certain races and backgrounds are more likely to commit sexual violence.

Fact There is no typical rapist. Studies show that men who commit sexual violence come from every economic, ethnic, racial, age and social group. 85% of rapists are men known to their victims.




Myth Men who rape or sexually assault are mentally ill or monsters.

Fact Studies have indicated that as few as 5% of men are psychotic at the time of their crimes. Few convicted rapists are referred for psychiatric treatment.




Myth The man was drunk / on drugs / depressed / under stress / wasn't himself.

Fact Men use a variety of excuses to justify the act of rape. There is never an excuse.




Myth Once a man is sexually aroused he cannot help himself. He has to have sex.

Fact Studies show that most rapes are premeditated i.e. they are either wholly or partially planned in advance. All rapes committed by more than one assailant are always planned. Men can quite easily control their urges to have sex - they do not need to rape a woman to satisfy them. Rape is an act of violence - not sexual gratification. Men who rape or sexually assault does so to dominate, violate and control.




Myth Men who rape are sexually frustrated / do not have the opportunity to have sex with a willing partner.

Fact Men who rape are as likely as any other man to be cohabiting or having a significant relationship with a woman. More than one in five women are raped by their partners or their husbands. Women who work as prostitutes or in the sex industry are usually dismissed as rape victims because of bias by the police, criminal justice system, juries and society in general.




Myth Women often make up stories or lie about being raped.

Fact For anyone who has been raped or sexually assaulted, whether or not to report to the police can be a difficult decision. At present, it's estimated that only 15% of the 85,000 women who are raped and over 400,000 who are sexually assaulted in England and Wales every year report. One significant reason many women and girls tell us they don't go to the police is because of their fear of not being believed. Unfortunately, a disproportionate media focus on the very small number of cases each year that involve a so-called false allegation of sexual violence perpetuates the public perception that malicious false reporting is common. In fact, it is this perception that is entirely false. For many years, studies have suggested that false reporting rates for rape are no different from false reporting rates for any other crime, that is, around 4%. In March 2013, the Crown Prosecution Service published a survey confirming that false rape reports are 'very rare' and suggesting they could make up less than 1% of all reports. Read more here.




Myth Women cannot rape other women

Fact Only a man can commit the offence of Rape [Sec 1 (1) SOA 2003] as the penetration has to be with a penis. However, both women and men may experience rape. If the penetration is with something other than a penis, then the offence is assault by penetration. See Rape and the Law section.

The majority of sexual assaults are committed by men against women, but anyone can be sexually assaulted and emotional, physical and sexual abuse does happen in same sex relationships. Often when women are assaulted by other women they fear they will not be believed. It is important to realise that women who are assaulted by other women are able to access support and are believed.

Common misconceptions about rape

 

[Avatar4321]

The NRA has been doing that for decades and there are many people who want to keep women helpless who are angry at them for it.

 

[Esmeralda]

How can we fight rape?

The emerging movement against rape and sexual assault is a welcome sign that people are fed up with violence against women--and a society that produces it.
March 21, 2013

Protesters against victim-blaming at a New York SlutWalk protest in 2011Protesters against victim-blaming at a New York SlutWalk protest in 2011

"******! I hope you get raped and your throat slit!" "You need to be gang raped to get you some common sense. You stupid bitch."

That torrent of racist misogyny was directed at activist Zerlina Maxwell after she appeared on Fox News host Sean Hannity's show and dared to suggest that arming women won't stop rape--and that the onus for preventing rape shouldn't be on women, since women aren't responsible for rape to begin with.

"I don't think that we should be telling women anything," Maxwell told Hannity. "I think we should be telling men not to rape women and start the conversation there."

You wouldn't think that statement would be controversial, would you? How could anyone disagree with telling men not to rape women?

But the loathsome response Maxwell got after appearing on Fox News seems to be par for the course when it comes to these discussions.

Over and over again, the issue of sexual assault and rape is twisted inside out. On college campuses, women are told not to walk alone or wear the "wrong" clothing, or they are inviting a sexual attack. In the aftermath of rape, women are questioned about what they wore, what they drank and what they did to "provoke" their attacker. In the legal system, they're questioned about whether they fought hard enough or whether they sent "mixed signals."

Just such a noxious pattern was on display during the high-profile trial of two high school football players in Steubenville, Ohio, for the rape of a young woman.

That the two teens were found guilty this week doesn't erase the vile abuse that was heaped on the young woman after she dared to go to police about the rape last year. The defense strategy was a familiar one: She didn't say no--an argument lawyers made despite photos that surfaced on social media showing the victim was unconscious and unable to say anything.

The message in this and so many other cases and situations is that the burden is on women to prevent rape, rather than on men to not rape.

But there is a new conversation about rape and sexual assault happening in the U.S. A new generation of young women--often shoulder-to-shoulder with male allies--are refusing to be shamed or silenced about rape, whether it happens in Steubenville, Ohio, or on a college campus, or in the ranks of the U.S. military. These activists are pointing a finger at the disgusting aspects of our society that lead to rape--and the institutions that allow it to go unchallenged.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

ZERLINA MAXWELL earned the hostility of Fox News fanatics for making the simple point that right-wing calls for women to arm themselves with handguns to stop sexual assault wouldn't work.

Maxwell didn't even point out that the right wing's real concern is the right to bear arms, not stopping sexual assault. After all, Republicans in Congress blocked renewal of the Violence Against Women Act until they were shamed into backing down earlier this year. A shocking number of Republican candidates in the last election lectured women about "legitimate" rape.

The right wing wouldn't know what to do if women in this country really did start shooting rapists. As Maxwell told Hannity, "You're talking about this as if it's some faceless, nameless criminal, when a lot of times, it's someone you know and trust...I want women to be able to protect themselves, yes, but I want women to not be in this situation."

In an article for Ebony magazine, Maxwell expanded on what she meant, quoting Eesha Pandit, executive director of Men Stopping Violence. Pandit told her:

The question that's being asked about what women can do to prevent violence against them is the wrong question. It's not what can a woman say or do that can prevent being attacked. We need to turn that paradigm upside down. We need to focus on the messages that men are getting and about how they relate to women.

As Maxwell, Pandit and others point out, rape is treated differently from other crimes: The victims are frequently not only second-guessed, but also judged complicit because of their personal behavior--from what they wore, to whether they had a drink, to how hard they fought back.

On college campuses, for example, administrators still routinely warn women students to curtail their behavior as the best means of preventing rape. In some cases, this is taken to absurd lengths--as when the University of Colorado sent out a list of 10 "last resort" tips for women to stop a sexual assault. Included on the list were "Tell your attacker that you have a disease or are menstruating" and "Vomiting or urinating may also convince the attacker to leave you alone."

This may be going to extremes, but the general idea is commonplace--that the onus is on women to avoid getting raped, rather than on men to not rape.

This twisted logic was starkly highlighted in a 4-3 ruling last year by the Connecticut State Supreme Court that overturned the conviction of Richard Fourtin Jr. on charges of sexual assault.

The victim in the case was a woman with severe cerebral palsy who can't communicate verbally and, according to reports, has the "intellectual functional equivalent of a 3-year-old." Nevertheless, according to the highest state court in Connecticut, the victim didn't do enough to fight off her attacker--since she was supposedly capable of "biting, kicking, scratching, screeching, groaning or gesturing" her non-consent.

This legal "reasoning" is sickening--but the truth is it's only a more outrageous example of the kind of questioning survivors of sexual assault are routinely subjected to.

Even on the left, such ideas aren't unknown. Writing on Alternet, Valerie Tarico, herself a rape survivor, acknowledges the high rates of rape and attempted rape in the U.S., but goes on to state that "the relationship between female helplessness or coercion and sexual arousal for our species is hard wired, and it's not going away...Absolving women of responsibility denies us response ability."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

ACCORDING TO the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network, one out of every six American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime (some studies place that number even higher). Every two minutes, someone is sexually assaulted in the U.S., and approximately two-thirds of these assaults are committed by someone known to the victim.

Shifting the terms of the debate about sexual violence, as Maxwell and others are trying to do, is vitally important. So is building an active struggle--something activists on campuses and in communities across the country are also taking up.

The "rape culture" that today's activists talk about is not universal and all-pervasive, nor is it innate to all men to rape or be sexist. (In fact, studies show that a relatively small percentage of men commit rape.)

One of the critical issues highlighted by the new movement is how social and political institutions contribute significantly to the high rates of sexual assault--by systematically downplaying the prevalence of rape and shielding those who commit it.

That's obvious in the Steubenville case, where the star football players who raped a young woman were enabled by adults like their coach, Reno Saccoccia, who tried to shield them from getting in trouble.

On college campuses, administrators are being exposed for their scandalous record of trying to silence victims and stifle scrutiny of the true scale of sexual violence. It has taken courageous individuals like Angie Epifano at Amherst College and Landen Gambill at the University of North Carolina to speak out about how they were discouraged from coming forward and asked inappropriate questions that made them feel victimized all over again.

In the military, rape routinely goes completely unpunished--like in the case of Lt. Col. James Wilkerson, who was unanimously convicted of assaulting a female contractor in a court martial, but who is on active duty today after Third Air Force Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Craig Franklin overturned the ruling.

With this behavior so prevalent in respected social institutions, is it any wonder women are hesitant to come forward about rape?

If we want to stop sexual assault, it will take a fight against the entrenched sexism and victim-blaming atmosphere of such institutions. And beyond that, it will take a fight against a society that instills into the minds of young men that they are entitled to access women's bodies--a society based on exploitation and oppression, in which women's inequality is a feature of daily life.

The dehumanization of the victim in Steubenville by her rapists wasn't the result of bad parenting or a lack of morals, as some have claimed. It is the result of a society in which women's oppression is a fundamental cornerstone and women's sexuality is commodified in a myriad of ways.

As Zerlina Maxwell wrote in her Ebony article, "The young men in Steubenville aren't monsters. They did something monstrous and criminal, but perhaps we should begin to stop repeating the notion that 'criminals' are the ones raping one in five women. No, it's our husbands, boyfriends, acquaintances, relatives and friends, and they rape because they are not taught to see women as full autonomous human beings."

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WHILE THE guilty verdict in Steubenville is an important outcome given the vicious atmosphere of victim-blaming, the conviction of two young men won't stop rape and sexual assault, in Steubenville or anywhere else.

The two teens will be incarcerated in a "justice" system that offers little in the way of actual rehabilitation--and much in the way of further dehumanization.

Moreover, the guilty verdict doesn't apply to those who enabled and even encouraged their behavior--the adults who treated a 16-year-old and 17-year-old like heroes with a free pass because they were football stars, and who blamed and even threatened the victim for daring to come forward.

Today, millions of people--men and women alike--are outraged and want to fight back against a society that produces sexual assault and victim-blaming.

We saw it in the SlutWalk protests--sparked when a Toronto police officer told women that in order to avoid rape, they should not "dress like a slut." We're seeing it in Steubenville, with the protests of those standing with Jane Doe. And at UNC, Amherst and Yale, where students are taking on administrations that have failed to take rape seriously. As the New York Times wrote:

In the past year, campaigns against sexual assault on college campuses have produced an informal national network of activists who, while sometimes turning for advice to established advocacy groups, have learned largely from one another. They see the beginnings of what they hope is a snowball effect, with each high-profile complaint, each assault survivor going public, prompting more people on more campuses to follow suit...

Some activists are conscious of speaking to the broadest of audiences...But more often, they are addressing just their campuses, and then are stunned to find that people far away are watching.

People aren't just watching. They want to be part of this growing movement to end sexual assault. We have to do everything in our power to build it.

How can we fight rape? | SocialistWorker.org

 

[Pogo]

Let me help you.

This is where you go to read Tweets. Since all you actually did is read the OP you didn't actually read the Tweets.

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23missusa%20self%20defense&src=tyah

Uh -- the OP link is what your entire thread is based on. Now you want to change your whole basis? I gotta remember that one next time I start a thread declaring the sky is blue and you come in to argue for the sake of arguing.

What I saw is women protesting that as the target of rape the onus should not be on them to take the remedial action, but on the rapist who perpetrates it. Hence, the idea is to change hearts and minds.

--- Which is exactly the point YOU just made about Martin Luther King in that other thread. In this thread you had no idea what they were talking about; in that one you suddenly turn into an expert on the concept inside of fifteen minutes.

I need some Dramamine...

Actually, most of the thread is about you being an idiot.

As for your ranting, let me explain why you, as usual, have your head up your ass. There is nothing in American culture that in any way, shape, or form, glorifies, or even excuses, rape. In other words, the battle for the hearts and minds is already won. Unless you can point to something that I am unaware, you are just wrong.

Look you worthless piece of toilet puke -- you put this thread up because you were (and are) too stupid to understand some fucking tweets. I explained it to your worthless hide, rationally. Your pathetic strawman about "rape culture" or whatever you're drooling about here is irrelevant. It's your strawman. I just explained to you what the message was, and it's got nothing to do with your strawman. So go fuck yourself with a glue gun.