Zone1 Reasons to Believe Jesus is Returning soon

[surada]

I have no idea about the teachings of one John Nelson Darby. However, it is bible teaching that when the Lord does come at his second coming that many will be caught up into the clouds to meet him and those left behind will suffer the wrath of God and be burned as stubble.

Matthew 24:39-42
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Doctrine and Covenants 109:74-75
74 And be adorned as a bride for that day when thou shalt unveil the heavens, and cause the mountains to flow down at thy presence, and the valleys to be exalted, the rough places made smooth; that thy glory may fill the earth;
75 That when the trump shall sound for the dead, we shall be caught up in the cloud to meet thee, that we may ever be with the Lord;


Doctrine and Covenants 88:96
96 And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened and be caught up to meet him.

Malachi 4:1-6
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.
4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

When Jesus appears at his second coming, the dead in Christ will rise to meet him and those who are alive on the earth who are not numbered among the wicked will also be caught up in the clouds to meet him. The wicked who remain on the earth will be burned as stubble. This is what the Bible and other revelations have testified to regarding Jesus' second coming.

You're quoting from the book Joseph Smith wrote.

Read the Revelation letter to the 7 churches. Read the Bible.

This generation" doesn't mean "now"—it means the generation of the disciples who sat and listened to Jesus’ answer to their questions about:

When will these things happen?

What will be the sign that they are about to be fulfilled?

These questions follow Jesus’ prophetic statement that “not one stone [of the Temple] will be left unturned.” If those are the questions to be answered in the whole of Mark 13, then what ramifications for interpretation does the text leave us with?

After the questions, the chapter continues by answering with the kind of things that will take place leading up to the destruction of the Temple:

false messiahs (several were present in the first century)

wars (the Jewish War of 66-70 AD)

food shortages (imagine Jerusalem were surrounded, where would food come from?)

earthquakes (happened)

persecution (by the Jews and Rome)

the need to flee to the mountains (smart thing to do if your city is going to be burned to the ground soon, don’t you think?!)

the gospel being preached throughout the nations (Paul’s missionary journeys, etc.).

Then, there will be cosmic signs (sun darkened, moon dimmed, stars falling, earthquakes), which is a Jewish way to describe cataclysmic political disaster and change.

There are several examples of this language in the Old Testament that always point to a political reality, not the literal convulsion of the cosmos.

 

[JustAGuy1]

The Rapture was invented by John Nelson Darby in 1830.. about the time the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons were invented.

You are correct, the word "Rapture" is not used. Can you tell me what word was used 24 times and what it means?

 

[surada]

You are correct, the word "Rapture" is not used. Can you tell me what word was used 24 times and what it means?

So what is the word you are talking about? No games.

The Bible teaches that when Christ comes back, it will not be Tribulation or chaos. The "tribulation" did happen. Jesus predicted it. Rome destroyed their sacred city and Temple! That is the only future tribulation Jesus had in mind: one that is decisively in our past.

The end of the book of Revelation says it best:

“‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away’” (Revelation 21.4).

 

[JustAGuy1]

So what is the word you are talking about? No games.

The Bible teaches that when Christ comes back, it will not be Tribulation or chaos. The "tribulation" did happen. Jesus predicted it. Rome destroyed their sacred city and Temple! That is the only future tribulation Jesus had in mind: one that is decisively in our past.

The end of the book of Revelation says it best:

“‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away’” (Revelation 21.4).

I don't play games, you do.

"“‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away’” (Revelation 21.4)."

This hasn't happened yet, sorry.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

" "For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven (Parousia) with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God."
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air (harpazo), and so we will always be with the Lord."

No way to spin it except for the willfully obtuse. "He comes again" "and "we are caught up"

 

[onefour1]

You're quoting from the book Joseph Smith wrote.

I quoted you from Matthew, 1 Thessalonians, and Malachi which are in the Bible last time I checked along with some of the revelations from the prophet Joseph Smith.

Read the Revelation letter to the 7 churches. Read the Bible.

This generation" doesn't mean "now"—it means the generation of the disciples who sat and listened to Jesus’ answer to their questions about:

When will these things happen?

What will be the sign that they are about to be fulfilled?

These questions follow Jesus’ prophetic statement that “not one stone [of the Temple] will be left unturned.” If those are the questions to be answered in the whole of Mark 13, then what ramifications for interpretation does the text leave us with?


After the questions, the chapter continues by answering with the kind of things that will take place leading up to the destruction of the Temple:

false messiahs (several were present in the first century)

wars (the Jewish War of 66-70 AD)

food shortages (imagine Jerusalem were surrounded, where would food come from?)

earthquakes (happened)

persecution (by the Jews and Rome)

the need to flee to the mountains (smart thing to do if your city is going to be burned to the ground soon, don’t you think?!)

the gospel being preached throughout the nations (Paul’s missionary journeys, etc.).

Then, there will be cosmic signs (sun darkened, moon dimmed, stars falling, earthquakes), which is a Jewish way to describe cataclysmic political disaster and change.

There are several examples of this language in the Old Testament that always point to a political reality, not the literal convulsion of the cosmos.

If you are following along, I have told you that Jesus revealed to John things that would occur in all the seven seals of this earth's temporal existence. That would include things that would occur in John's days as an apostle all the way through the 5th, 6th, an 7th seals which would be a thousand years from the death of Jesus, then the next thousand years, and the next thousand years after that. So yes that includes some things that would occur in the 1st century AD clear through Christ's second coming and the end of Christ's 1000 year millennial reign on the earth which is yet to occur. So yes, the temple was to be destroyed in 70 AD but Jesus' second coming would only come when he appears to all in the clouds of heaven and then reigns on earth for 1000 years which has not yet occurred. All within the book of Revelation. You should try reading it sometime. It contains much more than what was to occur during the 5th seal. It even contains prophesy of a new heaven and new earth after the earth is renewed and this mortal world comes to an end.

 

[BreezeWood]

Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord ...

their claim is bold to presume who will be reaming are who the heavens will chose - before judgement is rendered, the reason for their return ... guy1 counts their chickens before they are born.

 

[surada]

I quoted you from Matthew, 1 Thessalonians, and Malachi which are in the Bible last time I checked along with some of the revelations from the prophet Joseph Smith.

If you are following along, I have told you that Jesus revealed to John things that would occur in all the seven seals of this earth's temporal existence. That would include things that would occur in John's days as an apostle all the way through the 5th, 6th, an 7th seals which would be a thousand years from the death of Jesus, then the next thousand years, and the next thousand years after that. So yes that includes some things that would occur in the 1st century AD clear through Christ's second coming and the end of Christ's 1000 year millennial reign on the earth which is yet to occur. So yes, the temple was to be destroyed in 70 AD but Jesus' second coming would only come when he appears to all in the clouds of heaven and then reigns on earth for 1000 years which has not yet occurred. All within the book of Revelation. You should try reading it sometime. It contains much more than what was to occur during the 5th seal. It even contains prophesy of a new heaven and new earth after the earth is renewed and this mortal world comes to an end.

The tribulation was over in 70 AD.

 

[surada]

I think you have a persecution complex. I never said, and don't believe, Catholicism is any better or worse than any other Christianity or religion.

I find the history and evolution of Christianity to be an endlessly fascinating subject and am amazed how little so many Christians know about their own history.

It's all the rage these days.... everyone is competing for victim status.

 

[surada]

According to Preterism, the Great Tribulation ended in AD 70 when the Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem and its temple during the First Jewish–Roman War. Preterists believe that the Tribulation was a divine judgment on the Jewish people for their sins, including rejecting Jesus as the Messiah. They also believe that the destruction of Jerusalem is allegorically portrayed in the Book of Revelation.

 

[onefour1]

The tribulation was over in 70 AD.

There have been many tribulations in the world. There will be one just before the coming of the Lord in the clouds of heaven with power an great glory.

Mark 13:24-26
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

The siege against Jerusalem in 70 A.D. was prophesied by Jesus but was also to come again in the last days. Jerusalem will again be under siege and come very close to being destroyed again but the Lord will appear and set his foot again upon the Mount of Olives and cause a great earthquake that will divide the Mount of Olives in twain and He will save the Jews from utter destruction and destroy their enemies.

Zechariah 14:1-9
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

This prophecy by the prophet Zechariah has not yet come to pass. But there will be tribulation in Jerusalem when it does come to pass and the Lord will set his foot upon the Mount of Olives an it will cleave in twain and the Lord shall, in that day, be king over all the earth.

The tribulation of those days is a second fulfillment of the siege upon Jerusalem and a near destruction. This will be a sign of the times to look for the Lord to save Jerusalem when they come again under siege.

 

[surada]

There have been many tribulation in the world. There will be one just before the coming of the Lord in the clouds of heaven with power an great glory.

Mark 13:24-26
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

The siege against Jerusalem in 70 A.D. was prophesied by Jesus but was also to come again in the last days. Jerusalem will again be under siege and come very close to being destroyed again but the Lord will appear and set his foot again upon the Mount of Olives and cause a great earthquake that will divide the Mount of Olives in twain and He will save the Jews from utter destruction and destroy their enemies.

Zechariah 14:1-9
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 ¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

This prophecy by the prophet Zechariah has not yet come to pass. But there will be tribulation in Jerusalem when it does come to pass and the Lord will set his foot upon the Mount of Olives an it will cleave in twain and the Lord shall, in that day, be king over all the earth.

The tribulation of those days is a second fulfillment of the siege upon Jerusalem and a near destruction. This will be a sign of the times to look for the Lord to save Jerusalem when they come again under siege.

This is a description of political chaos.

But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

All the nations did gather to fight Jerusalem. They assembled on the plain of Megiddo.

 

[onefour1]

This is a description of political chaos.

But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

All the nations did gather to fight Jerusalem. They assembled on the plain of Megiddo.

Your not taking in the fact that after the tribulation has begun the Lord will come in power and great glory in the clouds of heaven and set his foot upon the Mount of Olives and it will cleave in half to the north and to the south and he will save the Jews from utter destruction and then he will rule on earth for 1000 years.

Yes 70 AD was a tribulation and Jerusalem was desolated. But this type of tribulation will come again in these last days and before they can destroy all of Jerusalem, Jesus will come and save the Jews and usher in his 1000 year reign upon the earth.

 

[surada]

Wow! Jesus didn't know when he'd return but you do.

Is the Rapture Real? - Stephen D. Morrison

Do you believe in the rapture? Article on the rapture - Stephen D Morrison

www.sdmorrison.org

 

[surada]

The rapture is not Biblical

The so-called origin of ‘the rapture’ is a false doctrine and anti-Biblical. It started when a woman named Margaret MacDonald put herself into a trance and had a ‘vision’ that the ‘church’ would come out of the world BEFORE the Great Tribulation. She wrote this ‘vision’ down in a letter and a...

www.sungazette.com

 

[surada]

Is the Rapture Real? - Stephen D. Morrison

Do you believe in the rapture? Article on the rapture - Stephen D Morrison

www.sdmorrison.org

 

[surada]

Countering the Rapture Error

The idea of a rapture of believers up into heaven before the prophesied tribulation of the last days is widely taught and believed in Christianity today.

www.ucg.org

 

[luiza]

I don't know what you're talking about. The author is from Disciples of Christ. They were founded in 1832.. right after Darby invented Dispensationism, Dominionism and the Rapture.

Hardly a surprise .

1. Jesus was simply an Essene monk who later was given his cousin's position .Able to preach on behalf of his sect .
2. He was anti organised religion --- Some 1800 years before your group of zealots was even born .
And before the likes of his brother James , Peter and Paul who started re-defining Christianity to appeal to Gentiles and the Romans in particular.
3.Imagining he was literally the Son of God is absurdly illogical .
By definition God cannot add to the Universe ever . He /It can only transform energy into different forms .
Anything claiming to add to the Universe is clearly nonsense unless you are conceding the discussion by suggesting thart God can always redefine Universe by creation -- somehow adding something, which the definition of Universe has made impossible from the outset .

So to suggest that an ex Essene monk is going to return to transform this world-- which has gone dangerously bad ---is just like all of the Hollywood type Science Fiction films that end happily .
Crap .

He is no more the son of God than any other form of energy -- and that means , You , Me and the rest .

An article of belief perhaps, but unlike the Cult Religions, such as Christianity , at least founded on logic and real historical happenings .

 

[surada]

In Zechariah 14:2, the prophet predicts that “all the nations [will be gathered] to Jerusalem to fight against it.” This seems to have been fulfilled when the Roman legions and auxiliaries consisting of a vast array of ethnic groups from all over the known world attacked Jerusalem in A.D. 70.

 

[BreezeWood]

Jesus will come and save the Jews and usher in his 1000 year reign upon the earth.

really -

would that be for old times sake ... 1-4-1 isn't a jew themselves are they, good choice.

the 1st century is the repudiation of judaism, their false commandments and hereditary idolatry the desert religions of servitude and denial as would come to be.

jesus taught liberation theology, self determination the goal to accomplish for remission to the everlasting the religion of antiquity - when fulfilled, successful or not will be the time for their return and hopefully for longer than a day.

 

[onefour1]

really -

View attachment 962866

would that be for old times sake ... 1-4-1 isn't a jew themselves are they, good choice.

the 1st century is the repudiation of judaism, their false commandments and hereditary idolatry the desert religions of servitude and denial as would come to be.

jesus taught liberation theology, self determination the goal to accomplish for remission to the everlasting the religion of antiquity - when fulfilled, successful or not will be the time for their return and hopefully for longer than a day.

Jesus didn't come to repudiate the law but to fulfill the law.

Matthew 5:17-19
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

What you don't realize is that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. It was He who appeared unto Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, etc as God Almighty, Jehovah or the Great I AM. Jesus did not come to repudiate the law which he gave the Jews but only to fulfill the law.