Zone1 Reasons to Believe Jesus is Returning soon

[alang1216]

well, I don't have a persecution complex.. I really have been persecuted many many times

But I can totally relate to this last thing... I also am amazed how little many Christians know (or even seem to WANT to know) about their history...

I guess some things are more important to them...?

But to study Church history is to study Christ.. to walk with him through that history, where he definitely walked and helped mankind

I blame churches for most Christian's ignorance. For may centuries it was forbidden to publish the Bible in the language of the people. Nowadays, the teaching of the Bible is generally just a reading of the scripture, not usually an in depth analysis like Textual Criticism.

 

[Meriweather]

I blame churches for most Christian's ignorance. For may centuries it was forbidden to publish the Bible in the language of the people. Nowadays, the teaching of the Bible is generally just a reading of the scripture, not usually an in depth analysis like Textual Criticism.

Sigh. It was not forbidden to publish the Bible in the language of the people. It was happening all over. What the Catholic Church was warning against were there were publishers, more interested in making a buck, who did not care how inaccurate the translation was. The Catholic Church approved Bibles in other languages that were properly translated.

Many churches have Bible Study--and excellent Bible study programs at that in each parish. Like the Catholic Church, many denominations have online Bible Study as well.

I disagree "criticism" is needed. Understanding take priority there, and it takes a lot of study--not just reading--to reach that in depth analysis.

 

[forkintheroad7]

I blame churches for most Christian's ignorance. For may centuries it was forbidden to publish the Bible in the language of the people. Nowadays, the teaching of the Bible is generally just a reading of the scripture, not usually an in depth analysis like Textual Criticism.

People need to keep in mind that it has been 500 LONGGGGGGGG years since the world was centered around ONE TRUE CHURCH

Thanks to "the father of protestantism" Luther and those who came after him, we now have so many entities calling themselves "church" and yet people largely ignore the original, the one Luther broke from (because he himself could not maintain celibacy or other Catholic practices). I guess he didn't want to be alone in his rebellion so he dragged as many people as he could with him.. So today, we have what we have. The Catholic religion, in other words, is very very different from what many call a "church." I've noticed that protestants just do not naturally "get it" re catholicism. And they don't even try 99% of the time. Scott Hahn was one of the 1% who investigated Catholicism... He read every book under the sun that condemned catholicism. Then he began reading books by true Catholics. The years went by and he began to understand.. and he converted.

I guess he's the exception to the rule, though..

 

[alang1216]

Sigh. It was not forbidden to publish the Bible in the language of the people. It was happening all over. What the Catholic Church was warning against were there were publishers, more interested in making a buck, who did not care how inaccurate the translation was. The Catholic Church approved Bibles in other languages that were properly translated.

Christianity came to England by the 4th century but it was not until 1582 that a version was publish in English.

Many churches have Bible Study--and excellent Bible study programs at that in each parish. Like the Catholic Church, many denominations have online Bible Study as well.

I disagree "criticism" is needed. Understanding take priority there, and it takes a lot of study--not just reading--to reach that in depth analysis.

I don't really know what Churches teach. I do have a good friend who identifies as an Anglican evangelical Christian and, though he is an active church member and very bright and well educated, seems to have a limited understanding of his own Bible. Many times he has said to me, only half in jest, that it pains him that I know more about his Bible than he does. We went to the Museum of the Bible in DC together and I ended up as his tour guide for much of it. For instance, he didn't know which of the Gospels was written first or when the story of the whore that Jesus refused to condemn, was added to scripture.

BTW, Textual Criticism is a specific field of study, it is not a 'criticism' of religion or faith.

 

[surada]

Jesus established ONE Church... Easy to count, huh?

Protestant communities are called by this One Church "ecclesial communities" and are only imperfectly part of THE Church, the original, which is the Catholic Church. If you go back in history to the first century, you will find CATHOLICISM. .. Eucharist, confession to a priest and so on..

So the Church existed for 1521 years until Luther-- apostate Catholic priest who didn't want to maintain priestly celibacy (etc)-- broke with the Church

And it was bad, the Division that ensued... very bad. 500 years later, most Protestants do not have the first clue about Catholicism and so they have all these myths, fostered by their agenda-driven pastors who hate the Catholic Church (competition?).

But still the CC survived.. and I suppose it still survives, but NOT in the same form as before! In 1958, the Vatican was taken over by crooks, anti-Christian people who had their own nefarious reasons for wanting Catholicism to drop dead.

To some, it appears they got what they wanted. And yet, Traditional Catholicism lives on in SSPX Churches and in the Sedvacantist Churches.

I think that this is the final straw for Jesus... the Church being essentially commandeered by anti-Christs. True, a lot of priests are sincerely Catholic, so this takeover is not absolute at all. And yet...

Well, I know more about all this than most or all posters here and there is also EXPERIENCE that informs me.

And so, yeh, I think this latest development in Christ's Church is a CLEAR and unmistakable sign that Jesus just has to come back SOON

In Revelation Jesus said he would return soon, within a generation.

Its first century history not thousands of years in the future. When did John Nelson Darby take over the Catholic church?

 

[alang1216]

People need to keep in mind that it has been 500 LONGGGGGGGG years since the world was centered around ONE TRUE CHURCH

Thanks to "the father of protestantism" Luther and those who came after him, we now have so many entities calling themselves "church" and yet people largely ignore the original, the one Luther broke from (because he himself could not maintain celibacy or other Catholic practices). I guess he didn't want to be alone in his rebellion so he dragged as many people as he could with him.. So today, we have what we have. The Catholic religion, in other words, is very very different from what many call a "church." I've noticed that protestants just do not naturally "get it" re catholicism. And they don't even try 99% of the time. Scott Hahn was one of the 1% who investigated Catholicism... He read every book under the sun that condemned catholicism. Then he began reading books by true Catholics. The years went by and he began to understand.. and he converted.

I guess he's the exception to the rule, though..

There has never been a time where there was only one Christian Church. Luther didn't have a problem with celibacy, he had a problem with the many things the Catholic Church added to the faith. The selling of indulgences was a major one and since abandoned by the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church of Luther's time was hopelessly corrupt with the Papacy essentially being sold. At one time there were even 3 Popes. It was deeply in need of reform and that is what Luther forced on them.

 

[Meriweather]

Christianity came to England by the 4th century but it was not until 1582 that a version was publish in English.

So? Modern English didn't even come to be until the mid 1400s, and that was due to published material.

I don't really know what Churches teach. I do have a good friend who identifies as an Anglican evangelical Christian and, though he is an active church member and very bright and well educated, seems to have a limited understanding of his own Bible. Many times he has said to me, only half in jest, that it pains him that I know more about his Bible than he does. We went to the Museum of the Bible in DC together and I ended up as his tour guide for much of it. For instance, he didn't know which of the Gospels was written first or when the story of the whore that Jesus refused to condemn, was added to scripture.

Yes, Bible study covers all of that.

BTW, Textual Criticism is a specific field of study, it is not a 'criticism' of religion or faith.

Again, yes. It's is not a criticism, but (in my opinion) a distraction. In stead of continuing in depth it's a "But look over there!" And yes, interesting sidebars, but still sidebars.

 

[forkintheroad7]

In Revelation Jesus said he would return soon, within a generation.

Its first century history not thousands of years in the future. When did John Nelson Darby take over the Catholic church?

don't get it

 

[Meriweather]

The selling of indulgences was a major one and since abandoned by the Catholic Church.

Again this misses the mark. Indulgences were never sold. Indulgences are/were for sins already forgiven. They are a form of restitution when direct restitution to the party(s) injured by sin is not possible. Most indulgences, even then, were prayer or charitable works to the poor, donating to feed the hungry, pay for educating the poor, donating to hospitals to care for the poor. When a bishop was authorizing indulgences for one of his buildings, Luther complained--along with a lot of other people. Therefore Pope Pius V ended indulgences for anything monetary including giving alms or donating to school, heal, or shelter the poor.

 

[surada]

Jesus established ONE Church... Easy to count, huh?

Protestant communities are called by this One Church "ecclesial communities" and are only imperfectly part of THE Church, the original, which is the Catholic Church. If you go back in history to the first century, you will find CATHOLICISM. .. Eucharist, confession to a priest and so on..

So the Church existed for 1521 years until Luther-- apostate Catholic priest who didn't want to maintain priestly celibacy (etc)-- broke with the Church

And it was bad, the Division that ensued... very bad. 500 years later, most Protestants do not have the first clue about Catholicism and so they have all these myths, fostered by their agenda-driven pastors who hate the Catholic Church (competition?).

But still the CC survived.. and I suppose it still survives, but NOT in the same form as before! In 1958, the Vatican was taken over by crooks, anti-Christian people who had their own nefarious reasons for wanting Catholicism to drop dead.

To some, it appears they got what they wanted. And yet, Traditional Catholicism lives on in SSPX Churches and in the Sedvacantist Churches.

I think that this is the final straw for Jesus... the Church being essentially commandeered by anti-Christs. True, a lot of priests are sincerely Catholic, so this takeover is not absolute at all. And yet...

Well, I know more about all this than most or all posters here and there is also EXPERIENCE that informs me.

And so, yeh, I think this latest development in Christ's Church is a CLEAR and unmistakable sign that Jesus just has to come back SOON

There were lots of different versions of Christianity.... Gnosticism, Nestorian, Gnostic, Ebionites, Docetism l, Ayrians.. and a couple I can't spell..

 

[forkintheroad7]

There were lots of different versions of Christianity.... Gnosticism, Nestorian, Gnostic, Ebionites, Docetism l, Ayrians.. and a couple I can't spell..

those were just heresies in Catholic history, which really is history for ALL Christians but most Christians have no interest in what happened in history (strangely).. at least most posters here anyhow

 

[surada]

don't get it

Well, Darby invented Dispensationism and Dominionism and the rapture about 1830. Traditional Christianity didn't buy into it.

 

[surada]

those were just heresies in Catholic history, which really is history for ALL Christians but most Christians have no interest in what happened in history (strangely).. at least most posters here anyhow

So you don't include them in the history of Christianity.

 

[forkintheroad7]

So you don't include them in the history of Christianity.

You are not making sense. A heresy is not a separate church or purported church... so yeh, maybe you could work on your writing or something. I just rarely get your point, assuming u have one

 

[surada]

You are not making sense. A heresy is not a separate church or purported church... so yeh, maybe you could work on your writing or something. I just rarely get your point, assuming u have one

They had churches. There were a couple hundred gospels if you recall.

 

[surada]

There are more gospels, but you get the picture m

edited version of Marcion's edited version of Luke
Gospel of Valentinus[a]
Gospel of the Encratites
Gospel of Andrew – mentioned by only two 5th century sources (Augustine and Pope Innocent I) who list it as apocryphal[c]
Gospel of Barnabas – this work is mentioned only once, in the 5th century Decree of Gelasius, which lists it as apocryphal.
Gospel of Bartholomew – mentioned by only two 5th century sources, which list it as apocryphal.[d]
Gospel of Hesychius – mentioned only by Jerome and the Decree of Gelasius that list it as apocryphal.[e]
Gospel of Lucius – mentioned only by Jerome and the Decree of Gelasius that list it as apocryphal.
Gospel of Merinthus[f] – mentioned only by Epiphanius; probably the Gospel of Cerinthus, and the confusion due to a scribal error.
An unknown number of other Gnostic gospels not cited by name.[g]
Gospel of the Adversary of the Law and the Prophets[11]
Memoirs of the Apostles – lost narrative of the life of Jesus, mentioned by Justin Martyr, the passages quoted by Justin may have originated from a gospel harmony of the Synoptic Gospels composed by Justin or his school.

 

[JustAGuy1]

So?

I've never heard of anyone prohibiting marriage.

Except your church.

 

[alang1216]

Again this misses the mark. Indulgences were never sold. Indulgences are/were for sins already forgiven. They are a form of restitution when direct restitution to the party(s) injured by sin is not possible. Most indulgences, even then, were prayer or charitable works to the poor, donating to feed the hungry, pay for educating the poor, donating to hospitals to care for the poor. When a bishop was authorizing indulgences for one of his buildings, Luther complained--along with a lot of other people. Therefore Pope Pius V ended indulgences for anything monetary including giving alms or donating to school, heal, or shelter the poor.

Sounds to me like they were begin sold.

In 1517, Pope Leo X offered indulgences for those who gave alms to rebuild St. Peter's Basilica in Rome. The aggressive marketing practices of Johann Tetzel in promoting this cause provoked Martin Luther to write his Ninety-five Theses, condemning what he saw as the purchase and sale of salvation.

How much money were indulgences?
The going rate for an indulgence depended on one's station, and ranged from 25 gold florins for Kings and queens and archbishops down to three florins for merchants and just one quarter florin for the poorest of believers.

 

[Meriweather]

In 1517, Pope Leo X offered indulgences for those who gave alms to rebuild St. Peter's Basilica in Rome. The aggressive marketing practices of Johann Tetzel in promoting this cause provoked Martin Luther to write his Ninety-five Theses, condemning what he saw as the purchase and sale of salvation.

How much money were indulgences?
The going rate for an indulgence depended on one's station, and ranged from 25 gold florins for Kings and queens and archbishops down to three florins for merchants and just one quarter florin for the poorest of believers.

Up to 1517, no issue. In 1567, Pope Pius V made sure there would never be another issue. Is there something more you want the Catholic Church to do regarding this?

 

[Moonglow]

Jesus established ONE Church... Easy to count, huh?

Protestant communities are called by this One Church "ecclesial communities" and are only imperfectly part of THE Church, the original, which is the Catholic Church. If you go back in history to the first century, you will find CATHOLICISM. .. Eucharist, confession to a priest and so on..

So the Church existed for 1521 years until Luther-- apostate Catholic priest who didn't want to maintain priestly celibacy (etc)-- broke with the Church

And it was bad, the Division that ensued... very bad. 500 years later, most Protestants do not have the first clue about Catholicism and so they have all these myths, fostered by their agenda-driven pastors who hate the Catholic Church (competition?).

But still the CC survived.. and I suppose it still survives, but NOT in the same form as before! In 1958, the Vatican was taken over by crooks, anti-Christian people who had their own nefarious reasons for wanting Catholicism to drop dead.

To some, it appears they got what they wanted. And yet, Traditional Catholicism lives on in SSPX Churches and in the Sedvacantist Churches.

I think that this is the final straw for Jesus... the Church being essentially commandeered by anti-Christs. True, a lot of priests are sincerely Catholic, so this takeover is not absolute at all. And yet...

Well, I know more about all this than most or all posters here and there is also EXPERIENCE that informs me.

And so, yeh, I think this latest development in Christ's Church is a CLEAR and unmistakable sign that Jesus just has to come back SOON

The East and Western See had a schism also