Trump’s Wall Costs $21.6 Billion; Illegal Immigration Costs $148.3 Billion Per Year

[IcebergSlim]

No issues with my logic......which is why you don't cite one.

Your original "criticism" was sufficiently vague that I could not clearly discern the pathology from which you are suffering....

Having dispensed with the need to demonstrate that Supply Side Idiocy Part Deux left the economy, and by extension household net worth, a smoking pyre, I will now close the circle, Hannibal style....

Is it your belief that the values of these asset classes didn't improve thereafter?

The S&P had recovered all its losses as of late summer, 2013.

Home inventories were falling, and sales recovering by the same year.

The Boomers started turning 65 in 2011.....

LOL ----- you seriously don't really believe this, do you?

Tell me --- just exactly how long will it take for a retiree's investments to return to pre-recession purchase power levels? (The answer is a lot longer than they will be alive).

Your case of economic relativity doesn't support your point ... you need to try again.

Now, as for your pathetic attempt to demonstrate your supposed superior intellect, I would strongly suggest you go back to high school. Your facility with the English language leaves much to be desired. Your attempt to distract from the weakness of your argument by dressing it in folderol is childish at best, and intellectually dishonest at worst.

Tell me --- just exactly how long will it take for a retiree's investments to return to pre-recession purchase power levels? (The answer is a lot longer than they will be alive).


You are innumerate........The S&P reached the inflation adjusted pre-recession highs in May 2014.....Over the past 3 years returns have outpaced inflation by nearly 600 basis points....

Find another game, son.....

Really???

Whose investments do you suppose recovered? Think it was your mama's Social Security? Drive her Medicare costs down? Wait - I bet it lowered the cost of her food, lights, and energy, right?

You are talking apples and oranges ... clearly, indicating you don't understand fruit at all.

I've got no problem spotting a steaming pile of horse dung when I see it....

Same old stuff ... when hoisted by your own petard, attack the poster, not the issue.

We'll take this as your sign of surrender (and admission that you don't know what hell you were talking about)

So far, everything I've said is consistent with the objective evidence I've provided...


You've brought nothing. .

 

[JQPublic1]

Does that include the welfare an unemployment benefits of Americans who lost their jobs to illegals?

Competitive labor leads to a stronger economy. Next!

Like most proud Americans i hated the idea of illegals coming here to "take our jobs." However, the more I looked at the work they do and the impact of mass deportation, I realized just how important most of them are to the health of our economy.



undocumented workers make up around 67% of farm laborers. Their low salaries keep prices of crops and vegetables down.



The National Milk Producer's Federation forecasted a 61% increase in the cost of milk if their low cost labor pool dried up.



They contributed close to 300 billion in payroll tax to the Social Security trust Fund.



From the perspective of any notable economist, the undocumented worker is helping to maintain our way of life more than they are hindering it!

Awesome how you loons are all for slave labor...haha
How many times does this have to be revisited before you whackos can understand it? Illegal immigrants from Mexico, Central and South America do not yield a net gain for the US...they cost billions on top of billions and your are plain fucking crazy or a beaner yourself if you believe otherwise. They are dead weight and leave nothing but filth behind.
Long before wetbacks American's were working the low iQ jobs. Kids worked on farms, washed dishes and flipped burgers. The Libtard spin is that kids aren't willing to work these jobs...but that's total bullshit. Wetbacks have made these jobs careers, and offered BJ's at the end of shifts all for shit wages...they take what they can get as they're fully aware they can't qualify to work anything requiring iQ and communication skills. They've essentially ran the kids out of these jobs. Wetbacks offer the new age slave labor. If wetbacks didn't exist companies would have to pay whatever wage necessary to encourage real American's to work X jobs and then pass the cost on to the end user...simple economics. If end users aren't willing to pay X amount then X product or service goes away...again, simple economics.
See how easy this is? Keep your head out of your ass and enjoy being truly enlightened. You're welcome.
P.S.- What part of Mexico are you from and how long have you been robbing American taxpayers?

You're correct. As a youngster I washed dishes, ran a ski lift, bused tables, cleaned up on construction sites, pumped gas, clean up had landscape maintenance, etc. All jobs now held by illegals. Even my kids had more job opportunities, though more limited than mine, than kids today.

Illegals have taken all of the low skilled, entry level jobs that young people filled in the past, causing the unemployment to escalate, exacerbating the situation.

Where I live illegals have taken ALL of the laborer, pipe layers, brick layers, concrete finishers, burger flippers, some truck driver/heavy equipment operator, roofer, many carpenter, fencing, landscaping, logging, drilling rig, etc, jobs. As a result there are hundreds of people out of work in our small city. They have depressed all of those wages to the point that (if a job even comes open) a family man isn't able to support his family. They've taken skilled jobs from $20..00-$25.00/hr to of $10.00-$12.00/hr. They get food stamps; welfare; and government supported free medical and dental care from the Merilac Clinic; unemployment in the winter; government assisted low-income housing, so the unemployed can't find an affordable place to live.

With the illegals driving down wages and the huge influx of California retirees moving in, wages have dropped and the cost of living (Housing and food, etc) has risen to the point the the average person can't afford to live here and can't afford to move.

Trying to find a job here is harder than during the energy bust in the 1980's.

This is the thing that liberals turn a blind eye to and claim it doesn't exist. Liberals live in their ivory towers, often in their minds, and view the world though rose colored glasses. They totally ignored the realities of this, and other things. They choose to live in their utopian worlds, which are quickly turning in dystopian, in ignorant bliss.

And they can't figure out why the average working man has chosen conservatism.

Clueless...

Illegals haven't TAKEN any jobs, hey have been given jobs by criminals who hire them. You ought to be pressing charges against anyone in your town state or county who is known to hire illegals. There are many ways of finding out i a person is illegal, especially if they are getting the good paying jobs you claim they are getting. By law, anyone, including US citizens, are supposed to fill out an I-9 form which is used to verify a prospective employee's eligibility to work in the USA. So if you suspect the blonde blue eyed guy with an accent who is pouring concrete at a construction site near you of being an illegal from Greece or wherever, contact ICE. The first thing they will do is audit the employer's personnel files and look for the I-9.

 

[12icer]

None is the answer to MOST Apples picked, most are picked by machines that clasp the tree, and shake the ripe fruit rom it so the Apples per hour per person has drastically increased to a point they don't need any laborers except to hold "operators wanted" signs and those jobs are almost union scale just about everywhere with NO dues. As for the oshit lies about the economy, any fool knows the recovery during the last eight years has been like a snail running the Indy 500. Only liberal worshipers of the abysmal would herald it, you know like the liberal "feel good as you fail in school and NO grading except for our kids in PRIVATE schools we want to take over as rulers" liberal politicians. As for taking jobs, HELL yes they have because they have people who make them false papers. They even have floating SSAN numbers to get healthcare, and government assistance. If you say not you are full of shit I know a woman working in a town full of them at a doctors office and while oshitass was president she called in some of the SSANs being used by more than one person for Medicare and Medicaid, and they wouldn't even check the numbers. LYING LIBERAL shit think there are not people who know all of the shit they are doing. BUT GUESS WHAT there WILL be a day of reckoning. If we have to FIRE some pussy Repubs to stomp out the slugs so be it.

 

[bripat9643]

The $148 billion figure is totally bogus. He counts, among other things. $38 billion in remittances. And the tard seems to be oblivious to the fact illegals are not entitled to federal welfare or ObamaCare subsidies.

Should we expand the H1b visa to be more market friendly?

No, I don't need more Indian software coolies competing with me for the same job.

But most likely all of them are far more qualified than you are, stop asking for Affirmative Action to save your job...heh heh heh!

That isn't affirmative action, douche bag. That's the government doing one of the few legitimate purposes it was created to perform. illegals, by definition, have no right to be here.

But we only want the brightest and the best... I'd take a brilliant illegal over your dumbass any day

Thanks for admitting that you don't give a fuck about actual Americans, asshole. That's what we've been saying for years. That's why you lost the election.

Damn ... there you go confusing the left with facts again!!

Don't you know the left can't count past 20? Well, the men can count to 21, (probably closer to 20 1/2) .... ??

Since the numbers have no basis in reality, why consider them at all.

And a conservative think tank recently admitted that illegal immigration is a NET GAIN for the US economy so, conservatives really haven't thought this through very well, at all, but then that's what they always do.

I'm shocked! Greedy assed Neo-Conservatives want cheap labor!?
It's a net gain for those who have stock in food corporations.

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[BrokeLoser]

The wall won't work. You want to stop illegal immigration? You need an all out war on the people who employ illegals,
right down to the homeowner who hires an illegal to mow his lawn.

That will never happen.

The wall will work. It works everywhere it's tried. Sovling the problem after they have already entered the country is orders of magnitude less likely to be successful. Of course, that's exactly why you propose it.

Can you tell us how the wall works to stop those who enter legally and overstay their visas?

How many Mexicans, Central and South American's do you think file for visas? Do you really believe they have the intelligence, cash and ability to flow that process through? Come on man.
We aren't all that worried about the aussies and kiwi's overstaying their visas...haha

 

[Spare_change]

The wall won't work. You want to stop illegal immigration? You need an all out war on the people who employ illegals,
right down to the homeowner who hires an illegal to mow his lawn.

That will never happen.

The wall will work. It works everywhere it's tried. Sovling the problem after they have already entered the country is orders of magnitude less likely to be successful. Of course, that's exactly why you propose it.

Can you tell us how the wall works to stop those who enter legally and overstay their visas?

Ahhhh ... the art of the dumb question!

Obviously, it doesn't ... but then, it also doesn't stop those who buy a submarine and come in off the coast of Massachusetts - or those who float a dirigible from Vancouver.

Any other dumb questions?

 

[Spare_change]

Damn ... there you go confusing the left with facts again!!

Don't you know the left can't count past 20? Well, the men can count to 21, (probably closer to 20 1/2) .... ??

Since the numbers have no basis in reality, why consider them at all.

And a conservative think tank recently admitted that illegal immigration is a NET GAIN for the US economy so, conservatives really haven't thought this through very well, at all, but then that's what they always do.

I'm shocked! Greedy assed Neo-Conservatives want cheap labor!?
It's a net gain for those who have stock in food corporations.

Actually, it isn't ... but it IS a net gain for the consumer.

I don't know as I have no idea as to how crops are actually harvested, picked, etc...
For instance, does anybody here know how many apples are picked per hour per person?

You have no idea ... you hit it right on the button.
Your question is irrelevant ...

 

[Spare_change]

The wall won't work. You want to stop illegal immigration? You need an all out war on the people who employ illegals,
right down to the homeowner who hires an illegal to mow his lawn.

That will never happen.

The wall will work. It works everywhere it's tried. Sovling the problem after they have already entered the country is orders of magnitude less likely to be successful. Of course, that's exactly why you propose it.

Can you tell us how the wall works to stop those who enter legally and overstay their visas?

Can you tell us how many work visas will be granted per year to those who have to enter through the wall?

Just exactly as many workers as we need to import ... and they will be returned home when their visa is completed ... it's called immigrant visa tracking ... something Dems have refused to implement for 40 years.

 

[Spare_change]

LOL ----- you seriously don't really believe this, do you?

Tell me --- just exactly how long will it take for a retiree's investments to return to pre-recession purchase power levels? (The answer is a lot longer than they will be alive).

Your case of economic relativity doesn't support your point ... you need to try again.

Now, as for your pathetic attempt to demonstrate your supposed superior intellect, I would strongly suggest you go back to high school. Your facility with the English language leaves much to be desired. Your attempt to distract from the weakness of your argument by dressing it in folderol is childish at best, and intellectually dishonest at worst.

Tell me --- just exactly how long will it take for a retiree's investments to return to pre-recession purchase power levels? (The answer is a lot longer than they will be alive).


You are innumerate........The S&P reached the inflation adjusted pre-recession highs in May 2014.....Over the past 3 years returns have outpaced inflation by nearly 600 basis points....

Find another game, son.....

Really???

Whose investments do you suppose recovered? Think it was your mama's Social Security? Drive her Medicare costs down? Wait - I bet it lowered the cost of her food, lights, and energy, right?

You are talking apples and oranges ... clearly, indicating you don't understand fruit at all.

I've got no problem spotting a steaming pile of horse dung when I see it....

Same old stuff ... when hoisted by your own petard, attack the poster, not the issue.

We'll take this as your sign of surrender (and admission that you don't know what hell you were talking about)

So far, everything I've said is consistent with the objective evidence I've provided...


You've brought nothing. .

You've brought false evidence, and irrelevant evidence (some of it contradictory to your suppositions) and then tried, clumsily to weave into some kind of fabric to justify a false conclusion.

 

[Indeependent]

The wall won't work. You want to stop illegal immigration? You need an all out war on the people who employ illegals,
right down to the homeowner who hires an illegal to mow his lawn.

That will never happen.

The wall will work. It works everywhere it's tried. Sovling the problem after they have already entered the country is orders of magnitude less likely to be successful. Of course, that's exactly why you propose it.

Can you tell us how the wall works to stop those who enter legally and overstay their visas?

Can you tell us how many work visas will be granted per year to those who have to enter through the wall?

Just exactly as many workers as we need to import ... and they will be returned home when their visa is completed ... it's called immigrant visa tracking ... something Dems have refused to implement for 40 years.

Fascinating; my son was just talking to a financial analyst who specializes in agriculture and he says the immigrants never go home as they do whatever work is at hand when the season ends.
In other words, when they're not farming, they're under cutting US citizens.

 

[Spare_change]

The wall won't work. You want to stop illegal immigration? You need an all out war on the people who employ illegals,
right down to the homeowner who hires an illegal to mow his lawn.

That will never happen.

The wall will work. It works everywhere it's tried. Sovling the problem after they have already entered the country is orders of magnitude less likely to be successful. Of course, that's exactly why you propose it.

Can you tell us how the wall works to stop those who enter legally and overstay their visas?

Can you tell us how many work visas will be granted per year to those who have to enter through the wall?

Just exactly as many workers as we need to import ... and they will be returned home when their visa is completed ... it's called immigrant visa tracking ... something Dems have refused to implement for 40 years.

Fascinating; my son was just talking to a financial analyst who specializes in agriculture and he says the immigrants never go home as they do whatever work is at hand when the season ends.
In other words, when they're not farming, they're under cutting US citizens.

THAT is what happens today - and that's what the immigration reform will fix. Those who have jobs will get to stay on their visa - until it needs to be renewed - and the others will be forced to return to their homes.

Let's keep in mind that only about 26% of "migrant farm workers" are illegal (those are the ones you are talking about) - "the illegal seasonal farm worker" is about half of the 2.6 million temporary farm workers. More Than 4 Out Of 10 Farmworkers In These Three States Are Undocumented

It is popular, and convenient, for the left to paint all illegal aliens with the "poor farmer working dawn to dusk in the heat and dirt while picking crops for little or no money" - but that is far from reality.

"Census Bureau data collected from 2005 to 2007, which allow for very detailed analysis, show that even before the recession there were only a tiny number of majority-immigrant occupations. (Click here to see detailed table.)

Among the findings:

• Of the 465 civilian occupations, only four are majority immigrant. These four occupations account for less than 1 percent of the total U.S. workforce. Moreover, native-born Americans comprise 47 percent of workers in these occupations.
  
• Many jobs often thought to be overwhelmingly immigrant are in fact majority native-born:
  • Maids and housekeepers: 55 percent native-born
  • Taxi drivers and chauffeurs: 58 percent native-born
  • Butchers and meat processors: 63 percent native-born
  • Grounds maintenance workers: 65 percent native-born
  • Construction laborers: 65 percent native-born
  • Porters, bellhops, and concierges: 71 percent native-born
  • Janitors: 75 percent native-born
• There are 93 occupations in which 20 percent or more of workers are immigrants. These high-immigrant occupations are primarily, but not exclusively, lower-wage jobs that require relatively little formal education.
  
• There are 23.6 million natives in these high-immigrant occupations (20 percent or more immigrant). These occupations include 19 percent of all native workers.
  
• Most natives do not face significant job competition from immigrants; however, those who do tend to be less-educated and poorer than those who face relatively little competition from immigrants.
  
• In high-immigrant occupations, 57 percent of natives have no more than a high school education. In occupations that are less than 20 percent immigrant, 35 percent of natives have no more than a high school education. And in occupations that are less than 10 percent immigrant, only 26 percent of natives have no more than a high school education.
  
• In high-immigrant occupations the average wages and salary for natives is one-fourth lower than in occupations that are less than 20 percent immigrant.
  
• Some may believe that natives in high-immigrant occupations are older and that few young natives are willing to do that kind of work. But 33 percent of natives in these occupations are age 30 or younger. In occupations that are less than 20 percent immigrant, 28 percent of natives are 30 or younger.
  
• It is worth remembering that not all high-immigrant occupations are lower-skilled and lower-wage. For example, 44 percent of medical scientists are immigrants, as are 34 percent of software engineers, 27 percent of physicians, and 25 percent of chemists.
  
• It is also worth noting that a number of politically important groups tend to face very little job competition from immigrants. For example, just 10 percent of reporters are immigrants, as are only 6 percent of lawyers and judges and 3 percent of farmers and ranchers.

Jobs Americans Won’t Do? A Detailed Look at Immigrant Employment by Occupation

Kinda shoots the whole leftist "poor little illegal immigrants" argument in the ass, doesn't it?

The average income for a migrant farm worker is from minimum wage to as much as $18/hour. Considering the average common laborer in Mexico makes about about $4.25 PER DAY, you can see why they come to the US. Some farm workers do earn high wages, but not all do

But, keep in mind, these are uneducated, unskilled workers who bring nothing to the job market except a strong back. That also does not include the room and board provided by the farmer for his worker.

However, even that doesn't accurately portray the illegal alien wage situation in the US. A 2007 study showed that the average income/year was about $30,000. Considering that this average is adversely affected by the migrant farmworker wages, it's easy to see that unqualified, uneducated illegal immigrants are getting paid a respectable wage. A Portrait of Unauthorized Immigrants in the United States

 

[P@triot]

What a tragedy. From mass shootings to rape of women to illegals terrorizing our nation and everything in between - the Dumbocrats are just covered in blood. They've done everything in their power to facilitate crime.

'14-Year-Old Girl Would Never Have Been Raped' if We Could’ve Done Our Job, Border Patrol Council Says

 

[P@triot]

This wall won't be built because he won't last that long to build it.

Look at Nostradamus here...

 

[oreo]

We've all heard the snowflake lies about the cost of the wall and the cost of illegal immigration. Here's a more credible examination of the facts.

Trump's Wall Costs $21.6 Billion; Illegal Immigration Costs $148.3 Billion Per Year—Do The Math | National Economics Editorial​

President Donald Trump announced that he will fulfill his campaign promise to build a nearly 2,000 mile long wall (not a fence) along America’s southern border with Mexico.

The idea is that a physical barrier will act as a low-cost deterrent, and will help stem the flow of illegal immigrants entering America via Mexico—the hope is that once an illegal alien (particularly a criminal migrant) is deported, they won’t return.

The plan is simple and time-tested—China’s Great Wall did it’s job, so did Hadrian’s Wall in Roman Britain—and yet it’s come under fire from the mainstream media.

They claim that the wall will be prohibitively expensive, that illegal immigrants contribute to America’s economy (so there’s no reason to deport them), and that the wall won’t work.

They’re factually wrong on all accounts—let’s look at the numbers.

How Much Will Trump’s Wall Cost? $21.6 Billion.
The first question we must address is very straightforward: how much would it cost to build a wall along the Mexican border?

We don’t know for sure (construction costs rarely align with initial estimates), but we have a few good estimates.

Senate leader Mitch McConnell said Congress estimates the wall will cost $15 billion at most—he said it would likely fall within a range of $12 to $15 billion.

However, according to more recent information acquired by Reuters, the border wall will cost $21.6 billion, and will take roughly 3.5 years to build. This is according to a document from the Department of Homeland Security.

It’s probably our best current estimate, and this article will proceed under using this cost assumption.

On the high end (which can’t be totally discounted, given the nature of construction projects), the left-wing advocacy group cum “newspaper” the Huffington Post said the wall would cost roughly $40 billion. Their evidence is based on a study done by MIT (although their assumptions about the size and building materials may be why the projection is so high).

Either way, the cost of the wall pales in comparison to the cost of illegal immigrants in America.

. . . . . . . .​

So you want to throw 21.6 BILLION down the toilet? You're figure just includes materials and not the cost of labor--so you can double that figure easily. You might want to watch this video to see how well fences and WALLS really work. And at the end of this video it will let you know how much money we have already spent on useless fences and walls.



Anything that an illegal can SEE can and will ALWAYS be compromised. The only way to handle this is with high tech motion detectors (that they can't see) and more border patrol stations that would be situated along the border to pick them up as they cross. Just them knowing that will stop illegal crossings.

 

[P@triot]

Like most proud Americans i hated the idea of illegals coming here to "take our jobs." However, the more I looked at the work they do and the impact of mass deportation, I realized just how important most of them are to the health of our economy.

Well shit....if that's not a reason to violate federal law...I don't know what is. Idiot.

undocumented workers make up around 67% of farm laborers. Their low salaries keep prices of crops and vegetables down.

In other words, like a good little left-winger, you want to exploit labor for your own benefit. You people loved slavery in the 1700's and the 1800's and you sick fucks still love it to this day.

The National Milk Producer's Federation forecasted a 61% increase in the cost of milk if their low cost labor pool dried up.

Well shit....if that's not a reason to violate federal law...I don't know what is. Idiot.

They contributed close to 300 billion in payroll tax to the Social Security trust Fund.

Well shit....if that's not a reason to violate federal law...I don't know what is. Idiot.

From the perspective of any notable economist, the undocumented worker is helping to maintain our way of life more than they are hindering it!

From the perspective of a decent American with common sense, you're an absolute fucking tool - advocating for felonious criminal activity simply out of your desperation to win elections.

 

[P@triot]

So you want to throw 21.6 BILLION down the toilet?

You celebrated like hell when Barack Obama threw $10 trillion down the toilet. At least a wall will serve an actual purpose.

 

[oreo]

So you want to throw 21.6 BILLION down the toilet?

You celebrated like hell when Barack Obama threw $10 trillion down the toilet. At least a wall will serve an actual purpose.

500 times now I have told you that I am not a liberal. i have been here since 2007 and have over 16,000 posts to prove it. I am giving you REALITY here. I doubt many of you have even seen the southern border. A 30' foot wall is NOTHING. I have 40' extension ladder in my garage.

Plus a lot of this land is Indian reservation and private property where they will not be able to build anything.

You might try watching this video dumbass--you might actually LEARN something. After this video it will move into another video regarding the terrain they're looking at.

 

[P@triot]

So you want to throw 21.6 BILLION down the toilet?

You celebrated like hell when Barack Obama threw $10 trillion down the toilet. At least a wall will serve an actual purpose.

500 times now I have told you that I am not a liberal. i have been here since 2007 and have over 16,000 posts to prove it. I am giving you REALITY here. I doubt many of you have even seen the southern border. A 30' foot wall is NOTHING. I have 40' extension ladder in my garage.

I do not support the wall. I think that money would be exponentially better spent on technology. But that being said, it's absurd to proclaim a 30-foot wall "nothing". I mean, I'm glad you have a "40-foot extension ladder" in your garage but are you planning on carrying that for 400 miles through the desert? If not - then you literally make no case here whatsoever.

 

[oreo]

So you want to throw 21.6 BILLION down the toilet?

You celebrated like hell when Barack Obama threw $10 trillion down the toilet. At least a wall will serve an actual purpose.

500 times now I have told you that I am not a liberal. i have been here since 2007 and have over 16,000 posts to prove it. I am giving you REALITY here. I doubt many of you have even seen the southern border. A 30' foot wall is NOTHING. I have 40' extension ladder in my garage.

I do not support the wall. I think that money would be exponentially better spent on technology. But that being said, it's absurd to proclaim a 30-foot wall "nothing". I mean, I'm glad you have a "40-foot extension ladder" in your garage but are you planning on carrying that for 400 miles through the desert? If not - then you literally make no case here whatsoever.

If you'll ever watch the video, you'll note that they can drive a vehicle up to the wall--LOL So extension ladders will be no problem at all. If you got a group of illegals they'll have no problems walking an extension ladder to the wall, and then they'll leave the ladder on the Mexican side of the wall to use it again. In fact you'll see ladders in the below video that I just described. You also will notice the 240 TUNNELS they found in San Diego alone to get under an existing wall, and they know there are more that they haven't found.

The only way to handle the border is with high tech and 21.6 billion dollars would go a long way in getting that done.

The ins and outs of U.S.-Mexico border tunnels

Drug cartels have no problems spending millions of dollars on tunnels.

 

[Reasonable]