What Are Conservatives Trying to Conserve?

[Flaylo]

Ira Glasser: What Are Conservatives Trying to Conserve?

In 1980 Reagan was elected, and the modern conservative political movement began, not as a protest, but as a hegemony. The lasting accomplishments of the Reagan years may have been the changes in the tax code and regulatory regimes that had prevailed for nearly a half century. But that was not what fueled his electoral success; what fueled his electoral success was the fundamentalist movement represented by Falwell, Pat Robertson and what came to be called the social agenda. Censorship of Kurt Vonnegut, Judy Blume and others, movements to pass "creationist" statutes that attempted to elevate the book of Genesis to a branch of science; hostility to the claims of gays, women and reproductive rights all combined to generate what began to be called "the culture wars." To a very demonstrable extent, I think, the conservative movement of the last 30 years (absent the economic issues of deregulation, also supported by Clinton and Robert Rubin and beyond the comprehension or the interest of most voters) may be seen as a panic response to a crumbling world and to the rights expansions of the '60s that struck like a tsunami, washing away all the prior governing arrangements. For these people, reality itself, or at least a reality where they felt in charge, was disappearing. As always, it was the symbols of these changes that were attacked: the federal courts, especially the Supreme Court, which (unelected) had rendered many of these decisions; the ACLU and Planned Parenthood, which had brought many of the cases or performed hated services; books and magazines and films; television and Hollywood and "eastern elites." When Pat Buchanan roared, in his quixotic presidential campaign, that "we" needed to "take back our country," he was talking about a country prior to the rights revolutions of the 60s, when people who looked and believed like him ruled the roost and did not have their powers limited by the rights we had won. What conservatives were desperately trying to conserve was not the values at America's origin (the Bill of Rights was, after all, ratified in 1791), but rather the privileges and powers of 19th century and early 20th century America. This is what has fueled the reactionary politics of the past three decades, and it is what we are seeing now in the Republican base and its candidates.

Can the forum say Amen? I do, conservatives aren't conserving anything that works to the good of all Americans.

The Bill of Rights........

For the rich and religious fundies only.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Ira Glasser: What Are Conservatives Trying to Conserve?




Can the forum say Amen? I do, conservatives aren't conserving anything that works to the good of all Americans.

The Bill of Rights........

For the rich and religious fundies only.

Only in your mind..........

 

[The T]

Ira Glasser: What Are Conservatives Trying to Conserve?




Can the forum say Amen? I do, conservatives aren't conserving anything that works to the good of all Americans.

The Bill of Rights........

For the rich and religious fundies only.

You have no clue.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You cannot because you have not dealt with federal workers, your a facking hater with contempt who ignores that much of the same shat goes on in the private sector at an even bigger level. You're made because you had to pay higher taxes and you're looking for someone to blame and take out your shatty frustration on. Hi hater!

You have no idea which government agencies state or federal I used to have to deal with. And if anything the federal hacks are even worse than the state hacks.

BTW are you ever going to answer my question as to what percentage of your income you pay in taxes or not?

You have no idea what the fack you're talking about, you have contempt for all federal employees based on a few handful that you don't like and the fact that you pay taxes, what facking ever, I got no time for you and your whining jealous rants.

If you're going to swear why not be a man and just fucking swear instead of using misspelled artificial cuss words?

And You won't answer my question because you know that I pay a higher percentage of my income in taxes than you do which means your entire "fair share" argument is bullshit because you're the one not paying your fair share.

 

[Flaylo]

The Bill of Rights........

For the rich and religious fundies only.

Only in your mind..........

You are what you show and defined by actions, not by what you want people to believe.

 

[Flaylo]

You have no idea which government agencies state or federal I used to have to deal with. And if anything the federal hacks are even worse than the state hacks.

BTW are you ever going to answer my question as to what percentage of your income you pay in taxes or not?

You have no idea what the fack you're talking about, you have contempt for all federal employees based on a few handful that you don't like and the fact that you pay taxes, what facking ever, I got no time for you and your whining jealous rants.

If you're going to swear why not be a man and just fucking swear instead of using misspelled artificial cuss words?

And You won't answer my question because you know that I pay a higher percentage of my income in taxes than you do which means your entire "fair share" argument is bullshit because you're the one not paying your fair share.

Whatever I pay in taxes in my business, that's not information I'm open to sharing and I don't give a flying fack what you have to pay and all your whining about it, everbody pays taxes and feels the pain in their pockets from time to time, but it doesn't change the fact that Americans are paying the lowest in taxes in 60 years. The taxes you pay have jacks shat to do with federal employees solely your taxes go into paying lots of shat so why single out all federal employees as the target for your whining ire? Facking hating POS.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You have no idea what the fack you're talking about, you have contempt for all federal employees based on a few handful that you don't like and the fact that you pay taxes, what facking ever, I got no time for you and your whining jealous rants.

If you're going to swear why not be a man and just fucking swear instead of using misspelled artificial cuss words?

And You won't answer my question because you know that I pay a higher percentage of my income in taxes than you do which means your entire "fair share" argument is bullshit because you're the one not paying your fair share.

Whatever I pay in taxes in my business, that's not information I'm open to sharing and I don't give a flying fack what you have to pay and all your whining about it, everbody pays taxes and feels the pain in their pockets from time to time, but it doesn't change the fact that Americans are paying the lowest in taxes in 60 years. The taxes you pay have jacks shat to do with federal employees solely your taxes go into paying lots of shat so why single out all federal employees as the target for your whining ire? Facking hating POS.

But fucking hypocrites like you who pay a lower percentage than others all seem to want everyone else to pay more while you continue to pay less. You call for fairness when you pay a lesser percentage of your income than others. I want fairness where everyone pays the same percentage of their income in taxes.

You are a fucking leech.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

You have no idea what the fack you're talking about, you have contempt for all federal employees based on a few handful that you don't like and the fact that you pay taxes, what facking ever, I got no time for you and your whining jealous rants.

If you're going to swear why not be a man and just fucking swear instead of using misspelled artificial cuss words?

And You won't answer my question because you know that I pay a higher percentage of my income in taxes than you do which means your entire "fair share" argument is bullshit because you're the one not paying your fair share.

Whatever I pay in taxes in my business, that's not information I'm open to sharing and I don't give a flying fack what you have to pay and all your whining about it, everbody pays taxes and feels the pain in their pockets from time to time, but it doesn't change the fact that Americans are paying the lowest in taxes in 60 years. The taxes you pay have jacks shat to do with federal employees solely your taxes go into paying lots of shat so why single out all federal employees as the target for your whining ire? Facking hating POS.

Public servants are economically nonproductive. It's simply a fact. Without private sector tax payers, public servants have no paycheck. I realize this is a very complicated idea for the left's economically inept ideology, but it is none the less, a fact.

And only 49% pay income tax. So not everyone feels the "pain in their pocket". Most of that debt we have is from handing out freebies to lazy fucks. So tere is room for contempt from hard working taxpayers. Be thankful I'm not in charge, 90% of you would be out of a job and looking for employment int eh private sector.

 

[Flaylo]

If you're going to swear why not be a man and just fucking swear instead of using misspelled artificial cuss words?

And You won't answer my question because you know that I pay a higher percentage of my income in taxes than you do which means your entire "fair share" argument is bullshit because you're the one not paying your fair share.

Whatever I pay in taxes in my business, that's not information I'm open to sharing and I don't give a flying fack what you have to pay and all your whining about it, everbody pays taxes and feels the pain in their pockets from time to time, but it doesn't change the fact that Americans are paying the lowest in taxes in 60 years. The taxes you pay have jacks shat to do with federal employees solely your taxes go into paying lots of shat so why single out all federal employees as the target for your whining ire? Facking hating POS.

But fucking hypocrites like you who pay a lower percentage than others all seem to want everyone else to pay more while you continue to pay less. You call for fairness when you pay a lesser percentage of your income than others. I want fairness where everyone pays the same percentage of their income in taxes.

You are a fucking leech.

You don't know what I facking pay and the rich pay far less and keep more than I do and federal employees do so why focus your ire on federal employees when most of your taxes don't even go to federal salaries?

 

[Flaylo]

If you're going to swear why not be a man and just fucking swear instead of using misspelled artificial cuss words?

And You won't answer my question because you know that I pay a higher percentage of my income in taxes than you do which means your entire "fair share" argument is bullshit because you're the one not paying your fair share.

Whatever I pay in taxes in my business, that's not information I'm open to sharing and I don't give a flying fack what you have to pay and all your whining about it, everbody pays taxes and feels the pain in their pockets from time to time, but it doesn't change the fact that Americans are paying the lowest in taxes in 60 years. The taxes you pay have jacks shat to do with federal employees solely your taxes go into paying lots of shat so why single out all federal employees as the target for your whining ire? Facking hating POS.

Public servants are economically nonproductive. It's simply a fact. Without private sector tax payers, public servants have no paycheck. I realize this is a very complicated idea for the left's economically inept ideology, but it is none the less, a fact.

Shut the fack up and get out of here with you envy of federal employees, the private sectors gets a lot of their revenue from government money, who pays Lockheed, Raytheon, KBR and ManTech? They would would make shat without the federal govt.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I don't have envy, that is for the wealth redistributing left. I hold contempt, same as skull. And you, are economically nonproductive. Congrats on suckling off the gubmint teat.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Whatever I pay in taxes in my business, that's not information I'm open to sharing and I don't give a flying fack what you have to pay and all your whining about it, everbody pays taxes and feels the pain in their pockets from time to time, but it doesn't change the fact that Americans are paying the lowest in taxes in 60 years. The taxes you pay have jacks shat to do with federal employees solely your taxes go into paying lots of shat so why single out all federal employees as the target for your whining ire? Facking hating POS.

But fucking hypocrites like you who pay a lower percentage than others all seem to want everyone else to pay more while you continue to pay less. You call for fairness when you pay a lesser percentage of your income than others. I want fairness where everyone pays the same percentage of their income in taxes.

You are a fucking leech.

You don't know what I facking pay and the rich pay far less and keep more than I do and federal employees do so why focus your ire on federal employees when most of your taxes don't even go to federal salaries?

You won't even tell me the percentage you pay. I'm not asking for your income or any personal info just a percentage.

I'm not rich and I pay a higher percentage than you yet you think I should be happy about that and even be willing to pay more while you continue to pay less.

You are a hypocrite.

 

[Dragon]

My argument was that government employees do not add to the net tax revenue of the government.

Exactly, and that's nonsense. The private economy as we know it wouldn't even exist without government. No human society more complex than a small-population pre-urban farming community can function without formal government, and NO human community, not even a foraging-hunting band, can function without SOME kind of governance. Whatever you do for a living, almost certainly you would be unable to do it without the government.

Government is an essential component of the private economy. Without government, it would not even exist.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

That's absolute horse shit. Sure RULE OF LAW, like our constitution needs enforcers to uphold it. Government does not create economic markets, they enforce laws (at least that was the intent) to protect citizens rights/private property from fraud.

That does not mean government needs to be involved in every industry and take on the responsibility to steal from the private sector to pursue bureaucrats interests.

And public servants do not add to the revenue of governments. Units go in (those units confiscated from the private sector), but none come out. That makes them economically nonproductive.

 

[Dragon]

That's absolute horse shit. Sure RULE OF LAW, like our constitution needs enforcers to uphold it. Government does not create economic markets, they enforce laws (at least that was the intent) to protect citizens rights/private property from fraud.

It's not horseshit, and in fact you just agreed with the essence of it. Without rule of law, there can be no economic markets. Rule of law (at least on an informal level, and in a society of any complexity ALWAYS on a basis of formal government) is why we trade instead of stealing. We can get by with informal governance in a foraging hunting band or a small farming community, but with anything city-state size or bigger, formal government is required.

Remove the functions of government, and our entire economy as we know it would vanish, and most of our population would die.

 

[regent]

Government was involved in the economy as soon as the ink dried on the Constitution, and it has never stopped being involved, and a safe bet it will always be involved. The automobile was invented but how far would the automobile have progressed without government building roads, bridges, writing traffic laws, enforcing those laws. And the bonus, government gave us, safer automobiles. Would GM or Chrysler even exist if not for government. What would have happened to American business if government had not passed and enforced laws on trusts and monopolies? The list is endless of needing government to supervise the economy.

 

[Skull Pilot]

My argument was that government employees do not add to the net tax revenue of the government.

Exactly, and that's nonsense. The private economy as we know it wouldn't even exist without government. No human society more complex than a small-population pre-urban farming community can function without formal government, and NO human community, not even a foraging-hunting band, can function without SOME kind of governance. Whatever you do for a living, almost certainly you would be unable to do it without the government.

Government is an essential component of the private economy. Without government, it would not even exist.

The economy can exist without a bloated wasteful government.

And tell me how government employees add to the net tax revenue when all the money they earn and pay in taxes is funded by taxes on the private sector.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

That's absolute horse shit. Sure RULE OF LAW, like our constitution needs enforcers to uphold it. Government does not create economic markets, they enforce laws (at least that was the intent) to protect citizens rights/private property from fraud.

It's not horseshit, and in fact you just agreed with the essence of it. Without rule of law, there can be no economic markets. Rule of law (at least on an informal level, and in a society of any complexity ALWAYS on a basis of formal government) is why we trade instead of stealing. We can get by with informal governance in a foraging hunting band or a small farming community, but with anything city-state size or bigger, formal government is required.

Remove the functions of government, and our entire economy as we know it would vanish, and most of our population would die.

As long as people produce and wish to exchange, there will be markets. Even where the govt. attempts to stop markets, they happen anyway. Look at the illegal drug trade. Sure, it's a messy business as it is built on not getting caught and rival territories, but there is still a market. The law is there to enhance exchange and protect rights, it does not mean without it there is no market.

The functions of government, again, is to uphold the law and protect rights and property, not pick winners and losers, decide who can compete and a host of other intrusions that RUIN the market instead of enhancing it.

The best government is the one that governs the least.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

And public servants do not add to govt. revenue. It's not even feasible mathematically.

 

[peach174]

Whatever I pay in taxes in my business, that's not information I'm open to sharing and I don't give a flying fack what you have to pay and all your whining about it, everbody pays taxes and feels the pain in their pockets from time to time, but it doesn't change the fact that Americans are paying the lowest in taxes in 60 years. The taxes you pay have jacks shat to do with federal employees solely your taxes go into paying lots of shat so why single out all federal employees as the target for your whining ire? Facking hating POS.

But fucking hypocrites like you who pay a lower percentage than others all seem to want everyone else to pay more while you continue to pay less. You call for fairness when you pay a lesser percentage of your income than others. I want fairness where everyone pays the same percentage of their income in taxes.

You are a fucking leech.

You don't know what I facking pay and the rich pay far less and keep more than I do and federal employees do so why focus your ire on federal employees when most of your taxes don't even go to federal salaries?

All taxes pay federal salaries.
Without taxes the Federal Government would not exist.