Zone1 atheists don't have proof of God... because they refuse to look at the proof

[Hollie]

The point is, why read Agatha Christie mysteries when Sir Arthur Conan Doyle mysteries have the same elements?

The answer is the different perspectives and the different approaches. Yes, the Bible, Aesop's Fables, etc. have some of the same elements, but the perspectives and approaches expand our own minds, perspectives, and thoughts.

Ask yourself: Why the need to select one and be dismissive of it?

The point is, why read the often outlandish tales and fables of the Bible, largely written by unknown authors, when we have attributed works of Greek philosophers and mathematicians. It was the Greek polymath Eratosthenes who described a spherical earth as opposed to the Biblical flat earth.

For centuries, it was the position of the Catholic Church that dissent from their orthodoxy was blasphemy and that could result in your head being removed from your torso.

Yes, there are different perspectives and fortunately, the inertia of history caused the perspective of the Church, one requiring complete subordination, to wane as western civilization pushed forward with exploration of the physical sciences.

 

[nomadic5]

The point is, why read the often outlandish tales and fables of the Bible, largely written by unknown authors, when we have attributed works of Greek philosophers and mathematicians. It was the Greek polymath Eratosthenes who described a spherical earth as opposed to the Biblical flat earth.

For centuries, it was the position of the Catholic Church that dissent from their orthodoxy was blasphemy and that could result in your head being removed from your torso.

Yes, there are different perspectives and fortunately, the inertia of history caused the perspective of the Church, one requiring complete subordination, to wane as western civilization pushed forward with exploration of the physical sciences.

The Bible is the Word of God. That has been shown to me through EXPERIENCE, not just reading it (long story)

which i have actually done

and which I doubt you have...

 

[Hollie]

Those crazy Catholics.

Not crazy. The leaders of the Church knew the power of control over the population when apostasy and blasphemy were punishable by death. Public beheading or stoning to death are pretty convincing as a persuasive tactic to keep someone from spreading those crazy rumors of heliocentrism.

 

[Hollie]

The Bible is the Word of God. That has been shown to me through EXPERIENCE, not just reading it (long story)

which i have actually done

and which I doubt you have...

“… because I say so”, is always a convincing argument.

 

[Woodznutz]

“… because I say so”, is always a convincing argument.

Only God's Holy Spirit can convince us, although our experience can confirm the truth of it. However, even dyed in the wool atheists would likely admit that it would be a better world if more people loved their neighbors as much as they love themselves. Note that this precept is taught only in churches, never in schools and seldom at home.

 

[Woodznutz]

Not crazy. The leaders of the Church knew the power of control over the population when apostasy and blasphemy were punishable by death. Public beheading or stoning to death are pretty convincing as a persuasive tactic to keep someone from spreading those crazy rumors of heliocentrism.

Don't blame God for what misguided humans do in the name of God.

 

[Hollie]

Only God's Holy Spirit can convince us, although our experience can confirm the truth of it. However, even dyed in the wool atheists would likely admit that it would be a better world if more people loved their neighbors as much as they love themselves.

“… because I say so”, as an argument for your God(s) as opposed to the host of other, proposed Gods, is not real convincing.

 

[Hollie]

Don't blame God for what misguided humans do in the name of God.

I place responsibility for the horrors inflicted on humanity by religionists on the religions that cause such tribal hatreds.

 

[Woodznutz]

I place responsibility for the horrors inflicted on humanity by religionists on the religions that cause such tribal hatreds.

The unprecedented rise of western civilization coincided directly with access to the bible by the general public. God's word was no longer held captive and used as a weapon by the Catholic church. It could then promote the health, wealth, and salvation for all found in its pages.

 

[Hollie]

The rise of western civilization coincided directly with access to the bible by the general public. God's word was no longer held captive, and used as a weapon, by the Catholic church.

Actually, no. The rise of western civilization was directly connected to removing the crushing social and intellectual burden of the Church at the end of the Dark Ages, the embrace of ideals and ethics that came from the civilizations of ancient Greece and Rome and the Magna Carta.

 

[Woodznutz]

“… because I say so”, as an argument for your God(s) as opposed to the host of other, proposed Gods, is not real convincing.

Are you saying that the moral principles found in our religions have no value?

 

[Hollie]

Are you saying that the moral principles found in our religions have no value?

Did I write that?

 

[Woodznutz]

Actually, no. The rise of western civilization was directly connected to removing the crushing social and intellectual burden of the Church at the end of the Dark Ages, the embrace of ideals and ethics that came from the civilizations of ancient Greece and Rome and the Magna Carta.

We're in agreement on those points. Not only was biblical knowledge withheld by the RCC, but few obtained any formal secular education. Literacy was encouraged so that people could read everything. However, the greatest impetuous was the printing of the bible, now available to the common man.

 

[Woodznutz]

Did I write that?

You've been saying that all along.

 

[Hollie]

You've been saying that all along.

Where?

 

[Hollie]

We're in agreement on those points. Not only was biblical knowledge withheld by the RCC, but few obtained any formal secular education. Literacy was encouraged so that people could read everything. However, the greatest impetuous was the printing of the bible, now available to the common man.

What biblical knowledge was withheld by the Church?

The Bible was available in print (in a fashion), before the church and after.

 

[Grumblenuts]

God's word was no longer held captive and used as a weapon by the Catholic church.

Not only was biblical knowledge withheld by the RCC, but few obtained any formal secular education.

Someone hates Catholics.

 

[Woodznutz]

What biblical knowledge was withheld by the Church?

The Bible was available in print (in a fashion), before the church and after.

The Bible was available only to a few before the printing press. Prior to that scripture was spoon fed to the people by the church. The Reformation was the direct result of people accessing the whole Bible and the realization that the RCC had lied about or withheld Bible truths from them.

 

[Hollie]

The Bible was available only to a few before the printing press. Prior to that scripture was spoon fed to the people by the church.

Are you saying we should all hate Catholics?

 

[Woodznutz]

Someone hates Catholics.

Historical facts.