Free? That Is A Laugh.

[JoeB131]

[

The gun sellers ignore NONE of those things. They use the NICS to determine them. All of those reasons for denying a sale are supposed to be listed in the NICS. In fact, it is required by federal law that they be listed.

And the gun sellers make sure that their customers have not been convicted of a felony, convicted of domestic violence, given a dishonorable discharge from the military, been abdicated as a mental defective, been put in a mental institution, or anyone having a restraining order against them. Obviously your company did not see that you are a compulsive liar. And you want to hold gun sellers responsible for what they cannot possibly know. How would a gun seller know what costumes someone wore??

.

There was a strip joint where I used to live where the strippers wore little strings around their breasts so they they technically weren't "topless'. using the letter of the law to get around the SPIRIT of the law is not obeying the law.

Incidentally, in my line of work, lying is actually a virtue. You don't ever want to tell the vendor the "Whole" truth.

[
They shot a 14 year old child in the back. That is the fundamental fact. The agents opened fire first. The two people had no way of know who they were, since they did not identify themselves or wear any law enforcement insignia.

In this country we prosecute, and possibly execute people for what they do. Not what they believe. And certainly not for what they MIGHT grow up to be.

It isn't a matter of what he "might" do in the future. That day, he rushed federal officers with a gun and shot at them.

And, yes, they did identify themselves as federal agents.

Who did the Weavers think was going to attack them?

 

[WinterBorn]

[

The gun sellers ignore NONE of those things. They use the NICS to determine them. All of those reasons for denying a sale are supposed to be listed in the NICS. In fact, it is required by federal law that they be listed.

And the gun sellers make sure that their customers have not been convicted of a felony, convicted of domestic violence, given a dishonorable discharge from the military, been abdicated as a mental defective, been put in a mental institution, or anyone having a restraining order against them. Obviously your company did not see that you are a compulsive liar. And you want to hold gun sellers responsible for what they cannot possibly know. How would a gun seller know what costumes someone wore??

.

There was a strip joint where I used to live where the strippers wore little strings around their breasts so they they technically weren't "topless'. using the letter of the law to get around the SPIRIT of the law is not obeying the law.

Incidentally, in my line of work, lying is actually a virtue. You don't ever want to tell the vendor the "Whole" truth.

[
They shot a 14 year old child in the back. That is the fundamental fact. The agents opened fire first. The two people had no way of know who they were, since they did not identify themselves or wear any law enforcement insignia.

In this country we prosecute, and possibly execute people for what they do. Not what they believe. And certainly not for what they MIGHT grow up to be.

It isn't a matter of what he "might" do in the future. That day, he rushed federal officers with a gun and shot at them.

And, yes, they did identify themselves as federal agents.

Who did the Weavers think was going to attack them?

There is no getting around the "spirit of the law". The gun seller calls in to the NICS and gives them the person's info. If they have been convicted of a felony, convicted of domestic violence, given a dishonorable discharge from the military, been abdicated as a mental defective, been put in a mental institution, or anyone having a restraining order against them, the NICS will deny the sale and the gun seller will not sell that person a gun. PERIOD.

No, they did not identify themselves when the boys ran into them. They didn't know the feds were on the property. And when the agent who was killed fired at little Sammy Weaver, he was running away and presented no threat whatsoever. At best it was a horribly planned foray. At worst it was murder. That you cheer it is despicable.

 

[JoeB131]

[

There is no getting around the "spirit of the law". The gun seller calls in to the NICS and gives them the person's info. If they have been convicted of a felony, convicted of domestic violence, given a dishonorable discharge from the military, been abdicated as a mental defective, been put in a mental institution, or anyone having a restraining order against them, the NICS will deny the sale and the gun seller will not sell that person a gun. PERIOD.

And the aforementioned stripper could claim some part of her breasts were covered with that string. Sorry, doesn't fly. If everyone else in Loughner/Lanza/Cho/Holmes life knew he was nuts, the gun seller should have, too.

[
No, they did not identify themselves when the boys ran into them. They didn't know the feds were on the property. And when the agent who was killed fired at little Sammy Weaver, he was running away and presented no threat whatsoever. At best it was a horribly planned foray. At worst it was murder. That you cheer it is despicable.

No, they were legally trying to arrest crazy people.

Seriously you have to be seriously some kind of nut to go after Federal Agents with a weapon.

Who else could have possibly been out there?

 

[WinterBorn]

[

There is no getting around the "spirit of the law". The gun seller calls in to the NICS and gives them the person's info. If they have been convicted of a felony, convicted of domestic violence, given a dishonorable discharge from the military, been abdicated as a mental defective, been put in a mental institution, or anyone having a restraining order against them, the NICS will deny the sale and the gun seller will not sell that person a gun. PERIOD.

And the aforementioned stripper could claim some part of her breasts were covered with that string. Sorry, doesn't fly. If everyone else in Loughner/Lanza/Cho/Holmes life knew he was nuts, the gun seller should have, too.

[
No, they did not identify themselves when the boys ran into them. They didn't know the feds were on the property. And when the agent who was killed fired at little Sammy Weaver, he was running away and presented no threat whatsoever. At best it was a horribly planned foray. At worst it was murder. That you cheer it is despicable.

No, they were legally trying to arrest crazy people.

Seriously you have to be seriously some kind of nut to go after Federal Agents with a weapon.

Who else could have possibly been out there?

You say "If everyone else in Loughner/Lanza/Cho/Holmes life knew he was nuts, the gun seller should have, too.". Do you really think that someone working the counter at a gun dealer is "in their life"???? Is the person who sold you your cell phone "in your life"?

They didn't know they were federal agents. And the operation had been suspended for 3 months prior to this foray on to the Weaver property. So they had no way of knowing who was out there.

 

[JoeB131]

[


You say "If everyone else in Loughner/Lanza/Cho/Holmes life knew he was nuts, the gun seller should have, too.". Do you really think that someone working the counter at a gun dealer is "in their life"???? Is the person who sold you your cell phone "in your life"?

If I could kill someone with my cell phone, damned straight. If you are going to tell me thatthere is no way gun sellers can tell who is crazy, that's a good reason to stop selling guns.

[
They didn't know they were federal agents. And the operation had been suspended for 3 months prior to this foray on to the Weaver property. So they had no way of knowing who was out there.

Well, the Feds say they identified themselves. And frankly, who else could have been out there? What if they were hunters who just happened to have gotten lost and wandered onto their land, that's a good reason to send out kids with guns to engage?

Again, the best argument for gun control is to let Gun Nuts talk.

 

[WinterBorn]

[


You say "If everyone else in Loughner/Lanza/Cho/Holmes life knew he was nuts, the gun seller should have, too.". Do you really think that someone working the counter at a gun dealer is "in their life"???? Is the person who sold you your cell phone "in your life"?

If I could kill someone with my cell phone, damned straight. If you are going to tell me thatthere is no way gun sellers can tell who is crazy, that's a good reason to stop selling guns.

[
They didn't know they were federal agents. And the operation had been suspended for 3 months prior to this foray on to the Weaver property. So they had no way of knowing who was out there.

Well, the Feds say they identified themselves. And frankly, who else could have been out there? What if they were hunters who just happened to have gotten lost and wandered onto their land, that's a good reason to send out kids with guns to engage?

Again, the best argument for gun control is to let Gun Nuts talk.

Whether you could kill anyone with your cell phone or not is irrelevant. That you somehow think a salesman at a counter is "part of your life" is was is relevant and laughable.

Sammy Weaver initially thought it was a game animal, then they thought it could have been a person. There is no telling who it could have been. If it had been lost hunters I doubt they would have fired at them and killed their dog.

We are talking. We are talking about a minimum of 100k crimes per year stopped by an armed citizen.

We are talking about 74% of the population being against banning handguns.

We are talking and debunking the bullshit spewed by you and your ilk.

 

[JoeB131]

Uh, guns kill, cell phones don't. ANd the gun sellers WANT to sell to crazy people, that's kind of the problem.

They want the rest of us kind of scared. so we'll want to buy guns, too. Kind of like an arms merchant that arms both sides in a war.

Give them a good kick in the pocketbook, send a few of them to jail when one of their prize customers fucks up, and they'll suddenly become a lot more responsible in their business practices.

 

[WinterBorn]

Uh, guns kill, cell phones don't. ANd the gun sellers WANT to sell to crazy people, that's kind of the problem.

They want the rest of us kind of scared. so we'll want to buy guns, too. Kind of like an arms merchant that arms both sides in a war.

Give them a good kick in the pocketbook, send a few of them to jail when one of their prize customers fucks up, and they'll suddenly become a lot more responsible in their business practices.

Gun dealers follow all the specified rules concerning gun sales. You claim they don't follow the "spirit of the law" but that is just more bullshit. The submit every sale to every person to the NICS.

If you are afraid it is not their fault.

 

[JoeB131]

Uh, guns kill, cell phones don't. ANd the gun sellers WANT to sell to crazy people, that's kind of the problem.

They want the rest of us kind of scared. so we'll want to buy guns, too. Kind of like an arms merchant that arms both sides in a war.

Give them a good kick in the pocketbook, send a few of them to jail when one of their prize customers fucks up, and they'll suddenly become a lot more responsible in their business practices.

Gun dealers follow all the specified rules concerning gun sales. You claim they don't follow the "spirit of the law" but that is just more bullshit. The submit every sale to every person to the NICS.

If you are afraid it is not their fault.

Again, that stripper was totally following the rules on being "topless".

If they are selling guns to crazy people under the rules, we need to tighten the rules.

ANd Kangaroo Court a few gun sellers into prison terms. You can indict a ham sandwich, after all.

 

[skookerasbil]

Uh, guns kill, cell phones don't. ANd the gun sellers WANT to sell to crazy people, that's kind of the problem.

They want the rest of us kind of scared. so we'll want to buy guns, too. Kind of like an arms merchant that arms both sides in a war.

Give them a good kick in the pocketbook, send a few of them to jail when one of their prize customers fucks up, and they'll suddenly become a lot more responsible in their business practices.

Gun dealers follow all the specified rules concerning gun sales. You claim they don't follow the "spirit of the law" but that is just more bullshit. The submit every sale to every person to the NICS.

If you are afraid it is not their fault.

Again, that stripper was totally following the rules on being "topless".

If they are selling guns to crazy people under the rules, we need to tighten the rules.

ANd Kangaroo Court a few gun sellers into prison terms. You can indict a ham sandwich, after all.

74% s0n!!!

fringe sentiment is gay

 

[JoeB131]

Spambot is lonely.

Hey, I think Whinerborn is a love connection for you. Until you guys meet and we find out who the Catfish is.

 

[skookerasbil]

Gallup Poll Support for gun control is waning opposition to handgun ban at all-time high




Harvard University........April 2013.......published in the Journal of Law and Public Policy.......research concludes >>>>>>>>

"Many people believe that owning guns only increases the amount of crime. However, a recent study published in the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy concluded that there is a negative correlation between gun ownership and violent crime in countries internationally. In other words, the more guns the less crime. The study showed that nations with strict gun control laws have substantially higher murder rates than those who do not. In fact, the 9 European nations with the lowest gun ownership rate have a combined murder rate that is three times that of the nine European nations with the highest gun ownership rate."




The full paper HERE >> http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf




Gun grabbers are phoney assholes who are ruled by their emotions = gay

 

[skookerasbil]

Spambot dominates........

[URL=http://s42.photobucket.com/user/baldaltima/media/gigantor11.gif.html][/URL]

 

[WinterBorn]

Uh, guns kill, cell phones don't. ANd the gun sellers WANT to sell to crazy people, that's kind of the problem.

They want the rest of us kind of scared. so we'll want to buy guns, too. Kind of like an arms merchant that arms both sides in a war.

Give them a good kick in the pocketbook, send a few of them to jail when one of their prize customers fucks up, and they'll suddenly become a lot more responsible in their business practices.

Gun dealers follow all the specified rules concerning gun sales. You claim they don't follow the "spirit of the law" but that is just more bullshit. The submit every sale to every person to the NICS.

If you are afraid it is not their fault.

Again, that stripper was totally following the rules on being "topless".

If they are selling guns to crazy people under the rules, we need to tighten the rules.

ANd Kangaroo Court a few gun sellers into prison terms. You can indict a ham sandwich, after all.

Fine, tighten the rules on crazy people. But what you are wanting to do is send people to prison when they follow the rules. This claim that the sellers are somehow skirting the rules is bullshit. They are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. They contact a federal agency and ask permission to sell the gun to that person. They only sell the gun if they receive permission.

 

[WinterBorn]

Spambot is lonely.

Hey, I think Whinerborn is a love connection for you. Until you guys meet and we find out who the Catfish is.

I guess this is as effective as your lying and your attempts at debate. Truly sad that you insist on continuing.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Fine, tighten the rules on crazy people. But what you are wanting to do is send people to prison when they follow the rules. This claim that the sellers are somehow skirting the rules is bullshit. They are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. They contact a federal agency and ask permission to sell the gun to that person. They only sell the gun if they receive permission.

They are doing the bare minimum, and sometimes not even that.

They know the Straw Purchaser coming in every month to buy a bunch of new guns is probably reselling them to gangbangers.

In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.

The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street.

frontline hot guns How Criminals Get Guns PBS

 

[WinterBorn]

[

Fine, tighten the rules on crazy people. But what you are wanting to do is send people to prison when they follow the rules. This claim that the sellers are somehow skirting the rules is bullshit. They are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. They contact a federal agency and ask permission to sell the gun to that person. They only sell the gun if they receive permission.

They are doing the bare minimum, and sometimes not even that.

They know the Straw Purchaser coming in every month to buy a bunch of new guns is probably reselling them to gangbangers.

In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.

The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street.

frontline hot guns How Criminals Get Guns PBS

In the latter situation you have gun dealers breaking the law. Bust them and put them in prison. I have no problem with that and neither do any other gun buffs I know.

But you have been harping on sending gun sellers to jail after they make a perfectly legal sale to someone who passes the NICS check with no problems. And that is bullshit.

Also, it may not always be a straw purchase. I have helped numerous people buy a firearm. I know a great deal about them and friends have sought my advice. I have often given that advice in the store. But depending on what is available, my advice can change. But straw purchasers can be caught and punished too. Try focusing on them instead of wanting to jail honest gun dealers.

 

[JoeB131]

Right. "Honest Gun Dealers".

And Tony Soprano was a "legitimate businessman".

 

[WinterBorn]

Right. "Honest Gun Dealers".

And Tony Soprano was a "legitimate businessman".

No, like an honest gun dealer. Withe the NICS regulations, they have to have the number given by the feds for every sale by the dealership.

 

[JoeB131]

Here's a simple way to do it.

When a gun is used in a crime, you find out how that criminal got it. if it was a straw buyer, then guess what, throw him in jail, but we want the gun store owner, too.

Betcha they start checking really close after the first few get ratted out by a straw buyer looking to make a deal.