Psaki, Democrats, and "Kitchen Table Issues"

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

I've been saying since I've been on this board that the hardcore Left's relentless push on cultural issues was hurting them.

It totally is. And they just double down. Completely detestable.

 

[eagle1462010]

That seems to be the general claim that is applied to modern elections, the Libertarian cost so and so the election.

That is flatly incorrect though, third party candidates in elections as far back as Bush but every exit poll I see shows that the libertarian draws from both parties about equally. Your assertion also assumes that one candidate is owed a vote or not. They are not, if you cant earn it and that vote goes to a third party then that is on the shit campaign that politician ran.

Earn my vote or do not get it. As long as you keep demanding that I vote for your guy because the other guy is so bad, you sill not get it and whining when you lose is just the price you will continue to pay for that hubris.

Name the one that has ever won............It is FANTASY..............Ross Perot got Bill Clinton elected.............I will not throw away my vote til that 3rd party can actually win.

Not to mention look at Canada...........the left owns it and with a small portion of the country...........6 parties.........

Our system can only be fixed with the restoration of the ENUMERATED POWERS..............and desolve almost all the power of the Federal Gov't............they are a CANCER TO THIS NATION.

If you think voting the third party that can't win will fix this...........you are Naive.

 

[FA_Q2]

As you say, regressive liberalism.

If I may... and even if I mayn't...

"The left" is pretty much broken. "Leftism" used to mean something, and it wasn't microaggression or ostracization. It was fighting for the middle and lowers classes and for a better overall standard of living and working. Inclusion. Power of the people, not power of the few to cancel or to be the loudest Twitter asshole..

Now the last (?) real leftists are left fighting for things that are standard fare in every other first world country: socialized health insurance, higher education, family leave, daycare, higher wages, unions, etc. These are the liberal hurdles we should have cleared by now, as a modern, liberal country. So "The left" has lost it's foundation. It's bearing.

You see and hear Bernie do this, and he gets labeled a Socialist and a Commie. Pfft... Bernie is basically in the bipartisan center, in the First World overall. If he had run against Trump, he would have been MURDERED by the "S" word. Because, Murrica. I guess

Anyway, leftism has been defeated in this country. What hope does ANYONE have of ANY of that (socialized health insurance, higher education, family leave, daycare, higher wages) happening, say, within 20 years? The left has given up.

So the left is fractured.... what was once education and compassion, empathy and sympathy that lead to leftism has turned into a hammer looking for a nail. Let's all be more offended than the victim. In fact, fuck the victim, who cares if they asked me to shut up. Rinse, repeat.

Take half of that laser-focused SJW energy and organize (pussy hats and all, all are welcome) for federally funded daycare -- the ONE thing we could do that would IMMEDIATELY improve our entire country overnight, in nearly every way, including helping every single mother of young children in the country directly, AND helping their children) -- and, hey, MAYBE we could get something done.

for faakkking once

Bernie Sanders wants to nationalize at least 30% of the American economy - Washington Examiner

In the ideal America outlined by 2020 hopeful Bernie Sanders, the majority of the economy would be centralized and socialized. Atop our existing government spending, comprising some 40% of GDP, the Vermont Senator wouldn't just nationalize one-fifth of the economy with a "Medicare For all" bill...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Power to the people: Bernie calls for federal takeover of electricity production

Sanders wants federally owned utilities to build massive amounts of wind and solar to compete with private generators, but critics say that would complicate an already tricky transition to clean energy.

www.politico.com

Bernie sanders is not 'labeled' a socialist, he IS a socialist and embraces it. He wants to nationalize energy, higher education, healthcare, drug companies, utilities, banks and on and on. When asked if he changed his mind about any of the calls to nationalize most production in the 70's he has repeatedly refused to do so.

I tire of everyone pretending that Sanders is not something that he clearly is and continues to say over and over again that he is. The democrats just like to dress him up and not radical because he pulls in a particular voting block but they do not want the baggage that comes with demanding the federal government run damn near everything.

 

[FA_Q2]

Name the one that has ever won............It is FANTASY..............Ross Perot got Bill Clinton elected.............I will not throw away my vote til that 3rd party can actually win.

Not to mention look at Canada...........the left owns it and with a small portion of the country...........6 parties.........

Our system can only be fixed with the restoration of the ENUMERATED POWERS..............and desolve almost all the power of the Federal Gov't............they are a CANCER TO THIS NATION.

If you think voting the third party that can't win will fix this...........you are Naive.

Funny, you claim that we can only fix the system by restoring the enumerated powers but then push for me to vote for parties that have no intention of restoring those powers.

If you think voting for the guys that specifically expand and ignore the enumerated powers each and every time will fix this then you are also being naïve. If you want to fix the system, step ONE is to stop voting for the people that stand for all the things that are breaking the system.

 

[eagle1462010]

Funny, you claim that we can only fix the system by restoring the enumerated powers but then push for me to vote for parties that have no intention of restoring those powers.

If you think voting for the guys that specifically expand and ignore the enumerated powers each and every time will fix this then you are also being naïve. If you want to fix the system, step ONE is to stop voting for the people that stand for all the things that are breaking the system.

If you think the swamp is going to give up power without a fight you are NAIVE................... That is the only way the constitution can be restored............I will not waste my vote.

 

[FA_Q2]

If you think the swamp is going to give up power without a fight you are NAIVE................... That is the only way the constitution can be restored............I will not waste my vote.

Of course they will not give up the power without a fight.

Why are you refusing to fight them then? You think they are going to give up the power while you SUPPORT them instead of fighting them?

You are clearly already wasting your vote - you claim to want to restore the enumerated powers while voting for people that stand against restoring enumerated powers....

 

[eagle1462010]

Of course they will not give up the power without a fight.

Why are you refusing to fight them then? You think they are going to give up the power while you SUPPORT them instead of fighting them?

You are clearly already wasting your vote - you claim to want to restore the enumerated powers while voting for people that stand against restoring enumerated powers....

Voting for a third party that can not win fixes nothing...............When you and millions of Americans are ready to restore the Constitution from the crooks in office via the 2nd let me know.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

I love when Mac shows his subtle racism, don't you?

I don't see any subtle racism. Sorry, I don't know what the fuck you're getting at. "Skin" and "color" aren't banned words (yet), and It's a salient point with Americans who own small businesses.

How dare government tell people how to run their business.

They absolutely shouldn't.

I guess, if you spend your whole life worried about stuff like that.

Nice hyperbole. I don't believe anyone spends their whole life worried about it, but your pedantic dismissal of it doesn't give your opinion any credibility.

Or you could try not being a jerk at work and being professional! You're still butthurt over that funny joke that didn't amuse H R, aren't you?

I have no idea what the fuck you're on about. This is a stupid comment.

Again, try being a decent person, that won't be an issue.

Define 'decent person'. In detail. Please source your work.

Yes, we should be totally free to teach our kids to be bigots when they grow up.

That's precisely what freedom means! Raise your kids how you like. Beyond that, it's none of your fucking business.

White people are going to be awful no matter what the Democrats say or do, and pandering to their awfulness isn't the way "Forward".

Nonsense.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

he IS a socialist and embraces it.

Not really, in his actual proposals. More, democratic socialist.

 

[FA_Q2]

Voting for a third party that can not win fixes nothing...............When you and millions of Americans are ready to restore the Constitution from the crooks in office via the 2nd let me know.

I am ready.

The problem is that you are not. All in the name of voting for a 'winner.'

We have been waiting a long time and will continue to wait as it is clear that the vast majority of Americans do not care about who wins powerful political offices as long as it is the team they wear the jersy for.

THAT is the core problem. You want to blame your adherence to political ideologies that stand in opposition to the very damn thing you claimed a few posts ago was the only way to fix the system on others that are no longer willing to support it.

It comes down to a very simple reality which is why you KEEP ignoring the crux of my point:

You claim the only solution here is returning to enumerated powers.

Candidate A wants to increase government power even more. They might win.

Candidate B ALSO wants to increase government power even more. They might win.

Candidate C wants to decrease government power. The cant win because everyone wants to vote for the 'winners.'

That you support A or B is can only be due to the fact they have a better chance at winning as they do not support what you claim to be the only way to fix the problem. Ergo, you are not voting to fix the problems but JUST SO YOU CAN WIN.

That is why no third party candidate can win, the number of people that want real change more than bragging that their guy won is very small. It will grow as more and more problems mount. The only real question is how bad is it going to get before your principals outweigh your need to be a 'winner.'

Hopefully that happens before it will take blood. I doubt it will though, the need for self confirmation runs deep in the human psyche.


The real change does not even require a third party to win. It just requires enough people to leave the parties that they realize they HAVE to change or risk losing power. As you keep voting for the people that run counter to your own stated values just means they have no need to to care what those values are.

 

[eagle1462010]

I am ready.

The problem is that you are not. All in the name of voting for a 'winner.'

We have been waiting a long time and will continue to wait as it is clear that the vast majority of Americans do not care about who wins powerful political offices as long as it is the team they wear the jersy for.

THAT is the core problem. You want to blame your adherence to political ideologies that stand in opposition to the very damn thing you claimed a few posts ago was the only way to fix the system on others that are no longer willing to support it.

It comes down to a very simple reality which is why you KEEP ignoring the crux of my point:

You claim the only solution here is returning to enumerated powers.

Candidate A wants to increase government power even more. They might win.

Candidate B ALSO wants to increase government power even more. They might win.

Candidate C wants to decrease government power. The cant win because everyone wants to vote for the 'winners.'

That you support A or B is can only be due to the fact they have a better chance at winning as they do not support what you claim to be the only way to fix the problem. Ergo, you are not voting to fix the problems but JUST SO YOU CAN WIN.

That is why no third party candidate can win, the number of people that want real change more than bragging that their guy won is very small. It will grow as more and more problems mount. The only real question is how bad is it going to get before your principals outweigh your need to be a 'winner.'

Hopefully that happens before it will take blood. I doubt it will though, the need for self confirmation runs deep in the human psyche.


The real change does not even require a third party to win. It just requires enough people to leave the parties that they realize they HAVE to change or risk losing power. As you keep voting for the people that run counter to your own stated values just means they have no need to to care what those values are.

Realty is not with your point. If I vote with you with no chance of winning it is a wsste.

Trump saved a packed leftist SCOTUS. My vote wasnt wasted

 

[FA_Q2]

Realty is not with your point. If I vote with you with no chance of winning it is a wsste.

Trump saved a packed leftist SCOTUS. My vote wasnt wasted

Case in point.

Winning matters. Values do not.

 

[OKTexas]

The right wing social agenda is aimed directly at every bit of progress made in the 70 years. They are looking to set back the clock. While I'll acknowledge the left spends a lot of political capital fighting these mainly defensive actions they are battles that must be fought.

What kind of shit are you smoking? I'm sure there are remnants of sodom and gamorrah, why don't you move your ass there.

.

 

[Mac1958]

It totally is. And they just double down. Completely detestable.

That's what blind commitment to an ideology does. It convinces you that you're 100% right, they're 100% wrong. It makes you unable to seriously consider the downside or potential problems that may arise from your actions. It makes you immediately dismiss any contrary perspectives. It robs you of your curiosity or humility.

Then, it motivates the ideologues on the other end to behave the same way in response and the divisions expand. As we're clearly seeing.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

That seems to be the general claim that is applied to modern elections, the Libertarian cost so and so the election.

That is flatly incorrect though, third party candidates in elections as far back as Bush but every exit poll I see shows that the libertarian draws from both parties about equally. Your assertion also assumes that one candidate is owed a vote or not. They are not, if you cant earn it and that vote goes to a third party then that is on the shit campaign that politician ran.

Earn my vote or do not get it. As long as you keep demanding that I vote for your guy because the other guy is so bad, you sill not get it and whining when you lose is just the price you will continue to pay for that hubris.

All the idiot Deps and Repubtards cost the libertarian candidate the election every year.

 

[Mac1958]

As you say, regressive liberalism.

If I may... and even if I mayn't...

"The left" is pretty much broken. "Leftism" used to mean something, and it wasn't microaggression or ostracization. It was fighting for the middle and lowers classes and for a better overall standard of living and working. Inclusion. Power of the people, not power of the few to cancel or to be the loudest Twitter asshole..

Now the last (?) real leftists are left fighting for things that are standard fare in every other first world country: socialized health insurance, higher education, family leave, daycare, higher wages, unions, etc. These are the liberal hurdles we should have cleared by now, as a modern, liberal country. Watching the few trying hardest to fight for these things be drowned out by the noise is sad. And telling.

You see and hear Bernie do this, and he gets labeled a Socialist and a Commie. Pfft... he is barely a "Lite" version of either of those things. Bernie is basically in the bipartisan center, in the First World overall, if you consider just his 3 or 4 core issues. If he had run against Trump, he would have been MURDERED by the "S" word.

Anyway, leftism has been defeated in this country. What hope does ANYONE have of ANY of that (socialized health insurance, higher education, family leave, daycare, higher wages) happening, say, within 20 years? The left has given up.

So the left is fractured.... what was once education and compassion, empathy and sympathy that lead to leftism has turned into a hammer looking for a nail. Let's all be more offended than the victim. In fact, fuck the victim, who cares if they asked me to shut up. Rinse, repeat.

Take half of that laser-focused SJW energy and organize (pussy hats and all, all are welcome) for federally funded daycare -- the ONE thing we could do that would IMMEDIATELY improve our entire country overnight, in nearly every way, including helping every single mother of young children in the country directly, AND helping their children) -- and, hey, MAYBE we could get something done.

for faakkking once

I agree completely. While I disagree with the (real) Left on some of the issues, it's clear that it allowed itself to be derailed by this radicalized element that turned it into a wild-eyed caricature. Seems to me that it had political success on the SJW issues, and so it went all in on PC and Identity Politics. Well, the pushback that I've been talking about since I've been here has arrived.

This is where I think the (new version of the) Left went off the rails: At some point, it went from sincerely and passionately advocating for the social issues to punishing and attacking and threatening and intimidating anyone who dared to disagree. In other words, when they weaponized PC and Identity Politics and became aggressive Social Justice Warriors.

Over the years, the resentments and frustrations and anger on the Right built and built and built. Then came Escalator Day, and a pied piper who opened the door for them.

Hmm. "...allowed itself to be derailed by this radicalized element that turned it into a wild-eyed caricature." Sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it?

 

[SweetSue92]

That's what blind commitment to an ideology does. It convinces you that you're 100% right, they're 100% wrong. It makes you unable to seriously consider the downside or potential problems that may arise from your actions. It makes you immediately dismiss any contrary perspectives. It robs you of your curiosity or humility.

Then, it motivates the ideologues on the other end to behave the same way in response and the divisions expand. As we're clearly seeing.

Oh. Like all your posts about "Trumpsters" in the last few years you mean?

 

[SweetSue92]

As you say, regressive liberalism.

If I may... and even if I mayn't...

"The left" is pretty much broken. "Leftism" used to mean something, and it wasn't microaggression or ostracization. It was fighting for the middle and lowers classes and for a better overall standard of living and working. Inclusion. Power of the people, not power of the few to cancel or to be the loudest Twitter asshole..

Now the last (?) real leftists are left fighting for things that are standard fare in every other first world country: socialized health insurance, higher education, family leave, daycare, higher wages, unions, etc. These are the liberal hurdles we should have cleared by now, as a modern, liberal country. Watching the few trying hardest to fight for these things be drowned out by the noise is sad. And telling.

You see and hear Bernie do this, and he gets labeled a Socialist and a Commie. Pfft... he is barely a "Lite" version of either of those things. Bernie is basically in the bipartisan center, in the First World overall, if you consider just his 3 or 4 core issues. If he had run against Trump, he would have been MURDERED by the "S" word.

Anyway, leftism has been defeated in this country. What hope does ANYONE have of ANY of that (socialized health insurance, higher education, family leave, daycare, higher wages) happening, say, within 20 years? The left has given up.

So the left is fractured.... what was once education and compassion, empathy and sympathy that lead to leftism has turned into a hammer looking for a nail. Let's all be more offended than the victim. In fact, fuck the victim, who cares if they asked me to shut up. Rinse, repeat.

Take half of that laser-focused SJW energy and organize (pussy hats and all, all are welcome) for federally funded daycare -- the ONE thing we could do that would IMMEDIATELY improve our entire country overnight, in nearly every way, including helping every single mother of young children in the country directly, AND helping their children) -- and, hey, MAYBE we could get something done.

for faakkking once

They have lost, my fellow conservatives. And they know it. Politically.

AND THE CULTURE.

As I have been saying. When you have lost Fact Free Insults, then you know it's catastrophic for them.

No one but no one deserves it more.

 

[SweetSue92]

I agree completely. While I disagree with the (real) Left on some of the issues, it's clear that it allowed itself to be derailed by this radicalized element that turned it into a wild-eyed caricature. Seems to me that it had political success on the SJW issues, and so it went all in on PC and Identity Politics. Well, the pushback that I've been talking about since I've been here has arrived.

This is where I think the (new version of the) Left went off the rails: At some point, it went from sincerely and passionately advocating for the social issues to punishing and attacking and threatening and intimidating anyone who dared to disagree. In other words, when they weaponized PC and Identity Politics and became aggressive Social Justice Warriors.

Over the years, the resentments and frustrations and anger on the Right built and built and built. Then came Escalator Day, and a pied piper who opened the door for them.

Hmm. "...allowed itself to be derailed by this radicalized element that turned it into a wild-eyed caricature." Sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it?

Just break it down Mac. SJW are the veriest miserable Puritans to land on these shores since Plymouth Rock....except they don't build, believe or DO anything. They just nag and scold. How could any culture NOT reject them?

 

[Mac1958]

Oh. Like all your posts about "Trumpsters" in the last few years you mean?

I got that word from a Trumpster.

Trumpism is not an issue.

Maybe this is too complicated for you.