Republicans..The real allies of African Americans

[daveman]

Liberals are here to balance the conservatives haha without either one this United States would be trash

There is no balance as of late, far to the left liberals are running the country and fake as conservative Republicans are helping them. Real conservatives do not have the power yet to push the country back more to the right.And the fact still remains that Republicans are traditionally the party of African Americans and the dems have and continue to hurt them. In this whole thread no one as disproven that fact, most like Jake won’t even try, they'll just make stupid statements and decrees .

If the Republican Party is traditionally the party of African Americans, why do most of them vote Democrat, and who are you to speak for African Americans?

Who are white liberals to speak for African-Americans?

 

[daveman]

Liberals are here to balance the conservatives haha without either one this United States would be trash

There is no balance as of late, far to the left liberals are running the country and fake as conservative Republicans are helping them. Real conservatives do not have the power yet to push the country back more to the right.And the fact still remains that Republicans are traditionally the party of African Americans and the dems have and continue to hurt them. In this whole thread no one as disproven that fact, most like Jake won’t even try, they'll just make stupid statements and decrees .

A Black man's opinion on this counts a hell of a lot more than yours. Especially for someone who lives in the state with the highest membership in the KKK.

...unless the black man is a conservative, of course.

 

[Jroc]

Liberals are here to balance the conservatives haha without either one this United States would be trash

There is no balance as of late, far to the left liberals are running the country and fake as conservative Republicans are helping them. Real conservatives do not have the power yet to push the country back more to the right.And the fact still remains that Republicans are traditionally the party of African Americans and the dems have and continue to hurt them. In this whole thread no one as disproven that fact, most like Jake won’t even try, they'll just make stupid statements and decrees .

A Black man's opinion on this counts a hell of a lot more than yours. Especially for someone who lives in the state with the highest membership in the KKK.

This is not an opinion thread this is an historical thread backed up by facts

 

[Dragon]

This is not an opinion thread this is an historical thread backed up by facts

LOL well, by some facts, anyway. You don't seem to want to consider any facts from later than the 1960s.

 

[Jroc]

This is not an opinion thread this is an historical thread backed up by facts

LOL well, by some facts, anyway. You don't seem to want to consider any facts from later than the 1960s.

Present them and I'll consider them.

 

[Dragon]

This is not an opinion thread this is an historical thread backed up by facts

LOL well, by some facts, anyway. You don't seem to want to consider any facts from later than the 1960s.

Present them and I'll consider them.

I did, and you didn't.

Hey, do you think the Democrats could appeal to the white racist voters by pointing out that, 60 or 70 years ago, the party USED TO represent their bigoted interests?

That makes as much sense, and is based on as much truth, as you're presenting here.

 

[Salt Jones]

See the difference here Jake? These guys actually discuss, you make stupid statements and move on. I don't know what you're talking about and your posts are absolutely worthless. As of yet no one has disproved the topic of this thread "Republicans..The real allies of African Americans"

Do you really believe that the Republican Party of 1864 is the same as the Republican Party of 2011?

Umm...I believe what the topic says, disprove it if you're able

Do you really believe that the Republican Party of 1864 is the same as the Republican Party of 2011?

 

[NoNukes]

There is no balance as of late, far to the left liberals are running the country and fake as conservative Republicans are helping them. Real conservatives do not have the power yet to push the country back more to the right.And the fact still remains that Republicans are traditionally the party of African Americans and the dems have and continue to hurt them. In this whole thread no one as disproven that fact, most like Jake won’t even try, they'll just make stupid statements and decrees .

If the Republican Party is traditionally the party of African Americans, why do most of them vote Democrat, and who are you to speak for African Americans?

Who are white liberals to speak for African-Americans?

They should not, that is the point.

 

[NoNukes]

There is no balance as of late, far to the left liberals are running the country and fake as conservative Republicans are helping them. Real conservatives do not have the power yet to push the country back more to the right.And the fact still remains that Republicans are traditionally the party of African Americans and the dems have and continue to hurt them. In this whole thread no one as disproven that fact, most like Jake won’t even try, they'll just make stupid statements and decrees .

A Black man's opinion on this counts a hell of a lot more than yours. Especially for someone who lives in the state with the highest membership in the KKK.

This is not an opinion thread this is an historical thread backed up by facts

Black people do not see the Republican Party as their party, and most do not think the Republicans are sympathetic to Blacks. Do you deny this?

 

[Jroc]

LOL well, by some facts, anyway. You don't seem to want to consider any facts from later than the 1960s.

Present them and I'll consider them.

I did, and you didn't.

Hey, do you think the Democrats could appeal to the white racist voters by pointing out that, 60 or 70 years ago, the party USED TO represent their bigoted interests?

That makes as much sense, and is based on as much truth, as you're presenting here.

It might help for you to point out how dems actually help African Americans today, I don't think you have. Has far as the history, they don't teach these things in government run, failing, inner city public schools. You know the schools the dems like to keep poor people black and white confined to.

 

[Mr. President]

Not much of a point, frankly. It's not in dispute that, prior to 1964, the Republicans were the civil rights party. What's in dispute is whether they still are.

Indeed however my point was that even when the republican party was viewed as the civil rights party it was for the advancement of different agendas and equality was not at the forefront of the decision making process.

It proves nothing of the sort. You are treating the position on slavery in the Union as a monolith, when it was not. The motive I stated existed only among the capitalists, and I suspect few of them were quite so bloodless and calculating as to make that their only motive for ending something as inhumane as slavery. Say rather, they had no economic incentive to retain the institution (just the opposite), and so the natural opposition to it on the part of any human being with a conscience was not overridden, as it was for the planter elite, by economic interests.

Your point while duly noted must meet with the contingency that slavery had not been challenged on a national scale until the war was in full swing. If this moral reasoning was the republicans war cry why friend had this war cry not been heard until a shift in the war was needed or the Union forces faced defeat?

You seem to be getting a bit confused about the Union's (as opposed to the Confederacy's) motivations for the war. The Confederate states seceded in order to protect slavery, and fought the war for the same reason, but the Union initially fought the war only to reverse the secession and preserve the Union intact. As Lincoln put it, if he could restore the Union by freeing all the slaves, by freeing none of them, or by freeing some and leaving others alone, he would do any of those. (In the end, the third approach served his purpose best.)

Precisely my point. Slavery was merely a political pawn to be maneuvered in order to bring the confederates in check. If the Confederates would have complied to stay with the union as long as slavery was allowed then the emancipation proclamation would have never been written.

As for "equality," for most white people, north and south alike, that wasn't even on the radar yet, which is why, despite the 14th Amendment, it was not enacted into law at that time. There was not a sufficient constituency for it.

When you are right you are right.

That slavery was legal in the Union longer than in the Confederacy is untrue. Even though the Emancipation Proclamation freed many slaves eventually, it did not make slavery illegal anywhere. It was a one-time emancipation, a punitive measure aimed at slave-owners in rebellion, depriving them of their property. There was nothing at law preventing the slave-owners who had lost their slaves due to the Proclamation from buying more, if they had the money to do so. Only the 13th Amendment ended slavery, and it did so throughout all parts of the country where slavery was still legal, which included the entire former Confederacy as well as several Union states.

"And by virtue of the power, and for the purpose aforesaid, I do order and declare that all persons held as slaves within said designated States, and parts of States, are, and henceforward shall be free; and that the Executive government of the United States, including the military and naval authorities thereof, will recognize and maintain the freedom of said persons."

Slavery was illegal because as soon as you bought a "slave" they were freed in accordance with the proclamation.

Let's take a look at that.

Throughout the course of the war, about two million men fought for the Union. Of those, 180,000 (approximately) were black, or less than ten percent of the total. The number of Confederate soldiers is uncertain, but is almost certainly less than a million men throughout the course of the war.

Most of the black soldiers were not employed in combat functions, partly because of racism on the part of white Union officers, partly because the Confederates tended to kill blacks who surrendered. There were of course notable exceptions like the 54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry.

The Emancipation Proclamation actually caused a net reduction in volunteers for the U.S. Army. The Irish immigrants in particular, who had volunteered in large numbers before, viewed blacks as a threat to their jobs, much the way working-class whites today often view Hispanic immigrants. So to the extent the Proclamation remedied a manpower shortage, it remedied a shortage that it had itself created.

Regarding the manpower differences between North and South, note that the Union had more than a 2-to-1 advantage in total population COUNTING the Southern slaves. (19 million compared to 9 million.)

You are presenting a false dilemma here. Those were not the only two motives, as Lincoln's own example testifies. It's clear that he did not believe in racial equality, but equally clear that he opposed slavery as a moral matter, because it was wrong to enslave even "racial inferiors." Among those who opposed the institution, that was probably the prevailing sentiment (although we may safely assume that black emancipationists didn't share it, I believe).

As far as what you are mentioning above I have to ask you what your sources are for these numbers. I have on several attempts looked to find these numbers and I have not been able to look them up. If you can provide that source I would gladly look at it and voice a rebuttal if one is found fit.

 

[Jroc]

Do you really believe that the Republican Party of 1864 is the same as the Republican Party of 2011?

Umm...I believe what the topic says, disprove it if you're able

Do you really believe that the Republican Party of 1864 is the same as the Republican Party of 2011?

Nothing is exactly the same as it was 150yrs ago but liberty is still liberty, big government means less individule liberty.

 

[Mr. President]

I am still trying to figure out how "most blacks vote for democrats". I mean statistically speaking most blacks don't vote at all. My dad is black born and raised in South Carolina. A white girl thought he was cute when they were kids and when her father found out the KKK called my dads house and threatened to kill the whole family if my dad so much as looked at her. My dad has been and will be a republican. I have been and will be a republican. Maybe the issue here is that the loud black people are democrats.

 

[JakeStarkey]

There is no balance as of late, far to the left liberals are running the country and fake as conservative Republicans are helping them. Real conservatives do not have the power yet to push the country back more to the right.And the fact still remains that Republicans are traditionally the party of African Americans and the dems have and continue to hurt them. In this whole thread no one as disproven that fact, most like Jake won’t even try, they'll just make stupid statements and decrees .

A Black man's opinion on this counts a hell of a lot more than yours. Especially for someone who lives in the state with the highest membership in the KKK.

This is not an opinion thread this is an historical thread backed up by facts

You have no facts after 1968, thus you fail.

Today is almost 2012.

 

[daveman]

If the Republican Party is traditionally the party of African Americans, why do most of them vote Democrat, and who are you to speak for African Americans?

Who are white liberals to speak for African-Americans?

They should not, that is the point.

And yet they do. In this very thread.

And you chose not to castigate them for it.

 

[daveman]

I'm still wondering why the Democrat policies of keeping blacks poor, uneducated and dependent on government is considered helping them.

 

[Dragon]

Mr. P, I'm going to skip over most of your post because our discussion of the Civil War and emancipation is off-topic, but I do want to deal with one thing just as a matter of historical accuracy.

"And by virtue of the power, and for the purpose aforesaid, I do order and declare that all persons held as slaves within said designated States, and parts of States, are, and henceforward shall be free; and that the Executive government of the United States, including the military and naval authorities thereof, will recognize and maintain the freedom of said persons."

Slavery was illegal because as soon as you bought a "slave" they were freed in accordance with the proclamation.

No. The language you quoted applied only to those held in slavery AT THAT TIME. It declared that all such persons "are, and henceforward shall be free." That means that, if you were a slave in a part of the Confederacy still unconquered at the time the Proclamation was issued, and subsequently the Union troops came through, YOU were free, and could not be re-enslaved. Your former owner was SOL as far as you were concerned. But the Proclamation didn't apply to slaves held in, say, Kentucky (a Union state) or New Orleans (a part of the Confederacy taken by the U.S. Navy before the Proclamation was issued), and there was nothing to stop your former owner from going off and buying a slave from one of those places if one was for sale and he had the U.S. currency to do it.

 

[Dragon]

I'm still wondering why the Democrat policies of keeping blacks poor, uneducated and dependent on government is considered helping them.

A better question is why you think that's a Democratic policy.

 

[daveman]

I'm still wondering why the Democrat policies of keeping blacks poor, uneducated and dependent on government is considered helping them.

A better question is why you think that's a Democratic policy.

Because I can perceive reality. Try it sometime.

 

[Salt Jones]

There is no balance as of late, far to the left liberals are running the country and fake as conservative Republicans are helping them. Real conservatives do not have the power yet to push the country back more to the right.And the fact still remains that Republicans are traditionally the party of African Americans and the dems have and continue to hurt them. In this whole thread no one as disproven that fact, most like Jake won’t even try, they'll just make stupid statements and decrees .

If the Republican Party is traditionally the party of African Americans, why do most of them vote Democrat, and who are you to speak for African Americans?

Who are white liberals to speak for African-Americans?

Who are white conservatives to speak for black Americans?