Sen. Elizabeth Warren

[g5000]

Warren is not quite two years younger than Clinton, and almost seven years younger than Biden.

 

[Mac1958]

.

She would be a very formidable national candidate.

She's very passionate, she keeps her messaging extremely simple/simplistic, and she's absolutely committed to turning America into a European-style social democracy, roughly two or three steps to the left of modern-day France.

The GOP should be concerned about her, and they could definitely learn from her messaging style.

.

Whoaaaa! Your feeling this strongly about her has convinced me to give her my vote.

Something tells me my opinion has nothing to do with that.



.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I see what you are doing there. Allow me to unpack your argument.

1) I can buy auto insurance from any auto insurance company in America. I can also choose what kind of coverage I want. These two things give me tremendous bargaining leverage.

My employer does not subsidize my auto insurance, and so I do not lose my auto insurance if I change jobs. I can keep the same auto insurance for decades and receive big discounts for doing so. I can also bundle my various insurance policies, and get even more discounts.

Another benefit of not having my employer subsidize my auto insurance is that I am not held hostage as to what auto insurance plan I have to accept. If my employer were to subsidize my auto insurance, they would be able to buy it from any insurerer in the country, and therefore would have quite a lot of bargaining leverage with the insurance companies.

What's more, the goverment does not provide auto insurance for the poor or the elderly. The government is not the biggest player in the auto insurance market, not even a big player, and therefore is not tying its competitors hands by writing the rules which create a playing field to its advantage to everyone else's disadvantage.

Is ANY of this true for health insurance?

Nope.

2) I would like to see evidence that the voluntarily uninsured are a net negative cost to our health care system.

You won't find any.

The Left is positively schizophrenic when it comes to the voluntarily uninsured. When the Left is exhibiting Split Personality A, they call the voluntarily uninsured "freeloaders" without providing any evidence they are a net negative. When the Left is exhibiting Split Personality B, they are demanding the voluntarily uinsured buy insurance because their money is needed for OTHER PEOPLE, which is clearly proof they are a NET POSITIVE.

This extra money being taken from the voluntarily uninsured will be going to the involuntarily uninsured, one third of whom are high school dropouts. THERE are your freeloaders! ObamaCare is all about wealth redistribution of the very worst sort.

3) The "previous system" was very bad. It definitely needed reform. It needs the reforms I touched on in 1). As for emergency rooms, the taxpayers only paid about $50 billion a year toward ER care for the indigent. Out of a total $2.4 trillion spent on healthcare each year in America.

You offer a good argument as do most sophists. The practical application of what you wrote does not offer a solution to the problem of health care in America. What existed before the PPACA didn't work for too many Americans; the problem with the PPACA began with the all out effort to prevent reform and the continued efforts to prevent reform by those who profit by what came before and those who represent them.

No one seems to be looking for a win-win solution to Health Care in America, for the GOP it is a zero sum game (and I hope they lose) and for the supporters of Obamacare we see a lack of courage.

Go to any hospital and watch what goes on. In every case an open eyed observer will see RN's providing care to patients - for example, asking the patients pain level, taking the patients blood pressure and checking fluids - much of which is routine and takes little more than 5-minutes. Then the RN become an account clerk, spending two or three times as long coding what s/he had done and justifying why it was necessary.

The problem with health care and The Congress is systemic, and those who benefit from the status quo will continue to roadblock all efforts to create a viable, fair and working system.

I don't know how you have missed all my posts on this forum kicking the GOP in the nuts for doing nothing to reform healthcare when they had all the power.

I have said many times the GOP sold the American people down the river on health care. The Democrats telegraphed for a very long time what they would do if given the chance, and the GOP did nothing to counter them. Nothing.

I am just as angry at the GOP for its ineptitude and cowardice as I am at the Democratic Party for its socialistic tendencies.

What you call Socialism I call a weak effort to provide a basic necessity to American Families. At my core I'm a pragmatist, thus I want to define the problem and listen to all ideas which seek solutions, then weed out those which are impractical. Putting a label on something isn't problems solving, in fact it muddies the water and prevents real reform.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Which words? Where she claimed she was part Indian to get hiring preference at Harvard?
The words where she claims the deck is stacked against people while she lives in a $14M house and makes over $1M a year?
The words where she claims that business owners didnt really build their businesses?

You'd have to be a special kind of stupid to flack for that nasty lying piece of shit. But you're just the cocksucker to do it.

Yeah I guess she thinks that everyone but her is too fucking stupid to make it.

 

[Silhouette]

Warren is not quite two years younger than Clinton, and almost seven years younger than Biden.

And none of those people are the right ones for the 2016 dem ticket:

Senator Elizabeth Warren.

"Warren" [noun] A place where rabbits live. How appropriate.

In today's edgy, scary, Russian-threat world, in walks yet another version of the democratic PC three-legged horse: A lilting-voiced, middle aged pantsuited lady waving her hands around. Insipid, incurably feminine and fooling nobody as to her fitness to be president in 2016. On the heels of party boy Obama, they're thinking this diet Hilliary is going to be the solution. .

Jesus H. Christ. Grooming her to run in 2016 is the same as grooming another Bush to run by the GOP, or another Mitt Romney or Romney-clone/Cheney pocket boy.

Dear democrats, try again. Hint: since these times in our nation's history are like the Triple Crown, you may want to pick a strong colt with four legs under him whose ride and longstanding track record are dependable and strong. A shiny coat is a plus but not necessary if he can go the distance....

And if you're still stupid, remember this: you've ALREADY GOT the far left votes. Might want to spend a little time thinking about how to get those middle blue collar, more conservative votes. Just sayin... I think that the far left has done such a thorough job snowing everyone as to the weird and bizarre agendas and PC madness that the entire democratic machine [probably largely taken over at the highest level by gay activists as usual] has completely lost touch with how to guage the middle voter. Lies ain't going to cut it. You cannot convince the intractible, independent-thinking middle voter by assuring him all his friends support gay marriage...when he knows for a fact they do not. You're going to have to scrape off the barnacles.

Enjoy getting that done..

 

[Spoonman]

She's too much of a left wing radical to ever gain national support.

 

[Zander]

She's too much of a left wing radical to ever gain national support.

Both the Republicans and Democrats will nominate a wingnut in 2016. She's got a shot. Moonbeam Jerry Brown too....

 

[Wry Catcher]

I see what you are doing there. Allow me to unpack your argument.

1) I can buy auto insurance from any auto insurance company in America. I can also choose what kind of coverage I want. These two things give me tremendous bargaining leverage.

My employer does not subsidize my auto insurance, and so I do not lose my auto insurance if I change jobs. I can keep the same auto insurance for decades and receive big discounts for doing so. I can also bundle my various insurance policies, and get even more discounts.

Another benefit of not having my employer subsidize my auto insurance is that I am not held hostage as to what auto insurance plan I have to accept. If my employer were to subsidize my auto insurance, they would be able to buy it from any insurerer in the country, and therefore would have quite a lot of bargaining leverage with the insurance companies.

What's more, the goverment does not provide auto insurance for the poor or the elderly. The government is not the biggest player in the auto insurance market, not even a big player, and therefore is not tying its competitors hands by writing the rules which create a playing field to its advantage to everyone else's disadvantage.

Is ANY of this true for health insurance?

Nope.

2) I would like to see evidence that the voluntarily uninsured are a net negative cost to our health care system.

You won't find any.

The Left is positively schizophrenic when it comes to the voluntarily uninsured. When the Left is exhibiting Split Personality A, they call the voluntarily uninsured "freeloaders" without providing any evidence they are a net negative. When the Left is exhibiting Split Personality B, they are demanding the voluntarily uinsured buy insurance because their money is needed for OTHER PEOPLE, which is clearly proof they are a NET POSITIVE.

This extra money being taken from the voluntarily uninsured will be going to the involuntarily uninsured, one third of whom are high school dropouts. THERE are your freeloaders! ObamaCare is all about wealth redistribution of the very worst sort.

3) The "previous system" was very bad. It definitely needed reform. It needs the reforms I touched on in 1). As for emergency rooms, the taxpayers only paid about $50 billion a year toward ER care for the indigent. Out of a total $2.4 trillion spent on healthcare each year in America.

You offer a good argument as do most sophists. The practical application of what you wrote does not offer a solution to the problem of health care in America. What existed before the PPACA didn't work for too many Americans; the problem with the PPACA began with the all out effort to prevent reform and the continued efforts to prevent reform by those who profit by what came before and those who represent them.

No one seems to be looking for a win-win solution to Health Care in America, for the GOP it is a zero sum game (and I hope they lose) and for the supporters of Obamacare we see a lack of courage.

Go to any hospital and watch what goes on. In every case an open eyed observer will see RN's providing care to patients - for example, asking the patients pain level, taking the patients blood pressure and checking fluids - much of which is routine and takes little more than 5-minutes. Then the RN become an account clerk, spending two or three times as long coding what s/he had done and justifying why it was necessary.

The problem with health care and The Congress is systemic, and those who benefit from the status quo will continue to roadblock all efforts to create viable, fair and working systems.

yeah yeah, we know you want single payer, because youre a fucking idiot.

so what is your point? Are the nurses doing stuff doctors should do? Or is it about the accounting? In that case is your problem with who does the accounting or that it's done in the first place?

Calling me "a fucking idiot" doesn't help your cause, especially since my point was painfully obvious.

 

[Unkotare]

Warren is Plan B. If the pschopaths on the Right manage to take down Hillary with a tsunami of manufactured bullshit, the Democrats will haul out Warren.

Joe Biden is having nightmares. "How do I destroy these two women without coming across like a misogynist?"

Biden is having nightmares trying to figure out how to spell "misogynist."

 

[Oldstyle]

"As a child in small-town Oklahoma, Elizabeth Warren yearned to go to college and then become an elementary school teacher—an ambitious goal, given her family’s modest means. Early marriage and motherhood seemed to put even that dream out of reach, but fifteen years later she was a distinguished law professor with a deep understanding of why people go bankrupt. Then came the phone call that changed her life: could she come to Washington DC to help advise Congress on rewriting the bankruptcy laws?

Thus began an impolite education into the bare-knuckled, often dysfunctional ways of Washington. She fought for better bankruptcy laws for ten years and lost. She tried to hold the federal government accountable during the financial crisis but became a target of the big banks. She came up with the idea for a new agency designed to protect consumers from predatory bankers and was denied the opportunity to run it. Finally, at age 62, she decided to run for elective office and won the most competitive—and watched—Senate race in the country.

In this passionate, funny, rabble-rousing book, Warren shows why she has chosen to fight tooth and nail for the middle class—and why she has become a hero to all those who believe that America’s government can and must do better for working families."

A Fighting Chance: Elizabeth Warren: 9781627790529: Amazon.com: Books

Interiew on PBS: Sen. Warren on ?A Fighting Chance? for every American

And now the stupidest among us can replay Native American jokes since they have no ability to counter Sen. Warren's words.

Elizabeth Warren could and WOULD promote the kind of public policies that would do far more to help poor and middle class White conservatives in terms of education, job training, and economic opportunity than all the conservative politicians put together. That means that she's a threat to politically conservative hegemony in the red states. Consequently, I think it's a forgone conclusion that she will be portrayed as a communist and worse.

I keep waiting for middle class conservatives to wake up and smell the coffee, but it's like trying to rouse a person who's in a coma. Some conservatives don't seem to grasp the concept that the rich get richer off the cheap labor of the poor and the favorable policies of the state gov'ts toward the wealthy which the wealthy pay for with campaign contributions. Yet these people keep supporting politicians who essentially give away the rights to natural resource exploitation to well-connected business interests for next to nothing and who also support policies that only serve to hobble the average person when it comes to moving up and out of the economically poorer strata of society like generations of Americans have previously been able to do far easier than can be done today.

Dude, I hate to interrupt your rant...but didn't the rich just get a WHOLE LOT RICHER under six years of Barry and the poor get a WHOLE LOT POORER? I'm not following your reasoning here...

 

[Oldstyle]

Or is Elizabeth Warren's progressive agenda somehow different than Barry's?

Or is it just that she's making the same empty promises that Obama made back before he became President and discovered running a country is harder than being a community organizer?

 

[Mustang]

"As a child in small-town Oklahoma, Elizabeth Warren yearned to go to college and then become an elementary school teacher—an ambitious goal, given her family’s modest means. Early marriage and motherhood seemed to put even that dream out of reach, but fifteen years later she was a distinguished law professor with a deep understanding of why people go bankrupt. Then came the phone call that changed her life: could she come to Washington DC to help advise Congress on rewriting the bankruptcy laws?

Thus began an impolite education into the bare-knuckled, often dysfunctional ways of Washington. She fought for better bankruptcy laws for ten years and lost. She tried to hold the federal government accountable during the financial crisis but became a target of the big banks. She came up with the idea for a new agency designed to protect consumers from predatory bankers and was denied the opportunity to run it. Finally, at age 62, she decided to run for elective office and won the most competitive—and watched—Senate race in the country.

In this passionate, funny, rabble-rousing book, Warren shows why she has chosen to fight tooth and nail for the middle class—and why she has become a hero to all those who believe that America’s government can and must do better for working families."

A Fighting Chance: Elizabeth Warren: 9781627790529: Amazon.com: Books

Interiew on PBS: Sen. Warren on ?A Fighting Chance? for every American

And now the stupidest among us can replay Native American jokes since they have no ability to counter Sen. Warren's words.

Elizabeth Warren could and WOULD promote the kind of public policies that would do far more to help poor and middle class White conservatives in terms of education, job training, and economic opportunity than all the conservative politicians put together. That means that she's a threat to politically conservative hegemony in the red states. Consequently, I think it's a forgone conclusion that she will be portrayed as a communist and worse.

I keep waiting for middle class conservatives to wake up and smell the coffee, but it's like trying to rouse a person who's in a coma. Some conservatives don't seem to grasp the concept that the rich get richer off the cheap labor of the poor and the favorable policies of the state gov'ts toward the wealthy which the wealthy pay for with campaign contributions. Yet these people keep supporting politicians who essentially give away the rights to natural resource exploitation to well-connected business interests for next to nothing and who also support policies that only serve to hobble the average person when it comes to moving up and out of the economically poorer strata of society like generations of Americans have previously been able to do far easier than can be done today.

Dude, I hate to interrupt your rant...but didn't the rich just get a WHOLE LOT RICHER under six years of Barry and the poor get a WHOLE LOT POORER? I'm not following your reasoning here...

They sure have.

The Democrats AND the Republicans have both caved to big money interests. It's just that the Democrats are marginally less inclined to cave every single time.

Frankly, it would be nice to see one of the political parties or at least one of their leaders stand up to big campaign contributors in a serious way. But I'm sorry to say that we may need another financial collapse before that happens.

 

[g5000]

Or is Elizabeth Warren's progressive agenda somehow different than Barry's?

Her "you didn't build that" speech is practically a carbon copy of Obama's.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Warren is Plan B. If the pschopaths on the Right manage to take down Hillary with a tsunami of manufactured bullshit, the Democrats will haul out Warren.

Joe Biden is having nightmares. "How do I destroy these two women without coming across like a misogynist?"

Well his party is the one that created that environment, where you cant attack non Christian white males

But seriously he's a democrat...they'll make excuses...this is a guy that has slammed minorities repeatedly and never been called on it.

 

[g5000]

Elizabeth Warren could and WOULD promote the kind of public policies that would do far more to help poor and middle class White conservatives in terms of education, job training, and economic opportunity than all the conservative politicians put together. That means that she's a threat to politically conservative hegemony in the red states. Consequently, I think it's a forgone conclusion that she will be portrayed as a communist and worse.

I keep waiting for middle class conservatives to wake up and smell the coffee, but it's like trying to rouse a person who's in a coma. Some conservatives don't seem to grasp the concept that the rich get richer off the cheap labor of the poor and the favorable policies of the state gov'ts toward the wealthy which the wealthy pay for with campaign contributions. Yet these people keep supporting politicians who essentially give away the rights to natural resource exploitation to well-connected business interests for next to nothing and who also support policies that only serve to hobble the average person when it comes to moving up and out of the economically poorer strata of society like generations of Americans have previously been able to do far easier than can be done today.

Dude, I hate to interrupt your rant...but didn't the rich just get a WHOLE LOT RICHER under six years of Barry and the poor get a WHOLE LOT POORER? I'm not following your reasoning here...

They sure have.

The Democrats AND the Republicans have both caved to big money interests. It's just that the Democrats are marginally less inclined to cave every single time.

Frankly, it would be nice to see one of the political parties or at least one of their leaders stand up to big campaign contributors in a serious way. But I'm sorry to say that we may need another financial collapse before that happens.

No one is ever going to stand up to big money. We created the problem ourselves by constantly demanding the government take on more and more responsibilities. And Democrats are the biggest offenders in that.

Warren's predecessors have succeeded in concentrating all that power in one easily accessible location, making it infinitely easier to capture with cash. Warren would continue that long Democratic tradition. Then, in true schizophrenic style, complain about big money in politics!

We need a great decentralization of power. Warren will NEVER do that.

 

[buckeye45_73]

You offer a good argument as do most sophists. The practical application of what you wrote does not offer a solution to the problem of health care in America. What existed before the PPACA didn't work for too many Americans; the problem with the PPACA began with the all out effort to prevent reform and the continued efforts to prevent reform by those who profit by what came before and those who represent them.

No one seems to be looking for a win-win solution to Health Care in America, for the GOP it is a zero sum game (and I hope they lose) and for the supporters of Obamacare we see a lack of courage.

Go to any hospital and watch what goes on. In every case an open eyed observer will see RN's providing care to patients - for example, asking the patients pain level, taking the patients blood pressure and checking fluids - much of which is routine and takes little more than 5-minutes. Then the RN become an account clerk, spending two or three times as long coding what s/he had done and justifying why it was necessary.

The problem with health care and The Congress is systemic, and those who benefit from the status quo will continue to roadblock all efforts to create viable, fair and working systems.

yeah yeah, we know you want single payer, because youre a fucking idiot.

so what is your point? Are the nurses doing stuff doctors should do? Or is it about the accounting? In that case is your problem with who does the accounting or that it's done in the first place?

Calling me "a fucking idiot" doesn't help your cause, especially since my point was painfully obvious.

As Sam Kinnison once say, SAAAAAAT IT

 

[Wry Catcher]

"As a child in small-town Oklahoma, Elizabeth Warren yearned to go to college and then become an elementary school teacher—an ambitious goal, given her family’s modest means. Early marriage and motherhood seemed to put even that dream out of reach, but fifteen years later she was a distinguished law professor with a deep understanding of why people go bankrupt. Then came the phone call that changed her life: could she come to Washington DC to help advise Congress on rewriting the bankruptcy laws?

Thus began an impolite education into the bare-knuckled, often dysfunctional ways of Washington. She fought for better bankruptcy laws for ten years and lost. She tried to hold the federal government accountable during the financial crisis but became a target of the big banks. She came up with the idea for a new agency designed to protect consumers from predatory bankers and was denied the opportunity to run it. Finally, at age 62, she decided to run for elective office and won the most competitive—and watched—Senate race in the country.

In this passionate, funny, rabble-rousing book, Warren shows why she has chosen to fight tooth and nail for the middle class—and why she has become a hero to all those who believe that America’s government can and must do better for working families."

A Fighting Chance: Elizabeth Warren: 9781627790529: Amazon.com: Books

Interiew on PBS: Sen. Warren on ?A Fighting Chance? for every American

And now the stupidest among us can replay Native American jokes since they have no ability to counter Sen. Warren's words.

Elizabeth Warren could and WOULD promote the kind of public policies that would do far more to help poor and middle class White conservatives in terms of education, job training, and economic opportunity than all the conservative politicians put together. That means that she's a threat to politically conservative hegemony in the red states. Consequently, I think it's a forgone conclusion that she will be portrayed as a communist and worse.

I keep waiting for middle class conservatives to wake up and smell the coffee, but it's like trying to rouse a person who's in a coma. Some conservatives don't seem to grasp the concept that the rich get richer off the cheap labor of the poor and the favorable policies of the state gov'ts toward the wealthy which the wealthy pay for with campaign contributions. Yet these people keep supporting politicians who essentially give away the rights to natural resource exploitation to well-connected business interests for next to nothing and who also support policies that only serve to hobble the average person when it comes to moving up and out of the economically poorer strata of society like generations of Americans have previously been able to do far easier than can be done today.

Dude, I hate to interrupt your rant...but didn't the rich just get a WHOLE LOT RICHER under six years of Barry and the poor get a WHOLE LOT POORER? I'm not following your reasoning here...

If you put your blinders aside and actually thought about issues you might be able to follow reasoning. As it stands, the entire conservative ideology is fraught with emotion and framed by ignorance. Man up and think, it's not too hard if you practice.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Or is Elizabeth Warren's progressive agenda somehow different than Barry's?

Her "you didn't build that" speech is practically a carbon copy of Obama's.

I once believed you were an honest poster. Posting this hackneyed phrase as an example of anything substantive is to lie by omission. It has been taken totally out of context and is one of many examples of the Big Lie tactic posted by partisan hacks.

And yes, fence post sitters are as partisan as anyone else, they are simple more egotistical.

 

[Wry Catcher]

yeah yeah, we know you want single payer, because youre a fucking idiot.

so what is your point? Are the nurses doing stuff doctors should do? Or is it about the accounting? In that case is your problem with who does the accounting or that it's done in the first place?

Calling me "a fucking idiot" doesn't help your cause, especially since my point was painfully obvious.

As Sam Kinnison once say, SAAAAAAT IT

LOL, you're are ridiculous, and sadly pitiful for you don't seem to know it.

 

[Mac1958]

Or is Elizabeth Warren's progressive agenda somehow different than Barry's?

Her "you didn't build that" speech is practically a carbon copy of Obama's.

Her breathtakingly simplistic "roads and bridges" defense of Obama's "you didn't build that" absurdity really brought the social democrats out of the woodwork and emboldened them.

That week was a turning point.

.