the Roman Catholic Church is NOT Christian!

[cnm]

Who do you think chose what to include in the bible you put so much faith in? You think it picked itself?

 

[Mr.Right]

Who do you think chose what to include in the bible you put so much faith in? You think it picked itself?

Well. Assuming there is a God, wouldn't you think that He decided? If there is no God, then it doesn't really matter, does it?

 

[cnm]

No, he gave men free will, which they used to decide what to put in the bible and what to burn out of existence.

Unless you say men have no free will, in which case it certainly does not matter.

 

[Mr.Right]

No, he gave men free will, which they used to decide what to put in the bible and what to burn out of existence.

Unless you say men have no free will, in which case it certainly does not matter.

Wrong. God is all powerful. Don't you think He would have made sure we got His message intact? He wouldn't be much of a God if He didn't

 

[cnm]

Wrong. God is all powerful. Don't you think He would have made sure we got His message intact? He wouldn't be much of a God if He didn't

You said it. I accept you think men have no free will.

 

[Mr.Right]

Wrong. God is all powerful. Don't you think He would have made sure we got His message intact? He wouldn't be much of a God if He didn't

You said it. I accept you think men have no free will.

You're too stupid to live.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Amazing how some "Christians" act just like Muslims with their nonsense of "my denomination of Christianity is right and yours is wrong invalidating you as a Christian".
Catholicism is the FIRST Christian denomination along with Eastern Orthodoxy.
Most of my fellow Christian brothers and sisters are totally ignorant of Christianity.

You are the one who is ignorant of what Catholicism is. It has its roots in the Babylonian religion. See this video to learn the truth. One should examine the evidence before condemning it as a lie. Don't you think?

One first has to have evidence to examine. You have offered nothing.

Translation: your evidence made me look like a fool, so I'm going to pretend it doesn't exist. Ell oh ell.

In that case he is going to have to deny that volumes of books on the subject also do not exist. Books such as the King James Version Bible (if he denies the Words of Jesus Christ he denies Jesus and the Father will deny him), Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop written in the 1800's, Babylon Religion - How a Babylonian goddess became the Virgin Mary by David W. Daniels.... the teachings of numbers of great Protestant Ministers of the Gospel of Jesus Christ going back hundreds of years! He's going to have to deny the history of his "church" which includes the mass murder of 68 million Protestants, Jews, non - Catholics along with some Catholics too - during the Inquisition which went on for over 600 years. A succession of 80 popes one after another added ideas for more depraved torture - in order to force the victim to convert to Catholicism. He's going to have to deny that Hitler was a devout Roman Catholic and was chosen by the Vatican to fulfill the mission of taking the world for Catholicism - first goal was to wipe out the Jews - next was the Protestants - same agenda as the Muslims have and is that a coincidence? No. Not when you learn the history of Augustine's influence upon Islam - of the Vatican's own influence on Mohammad and Islam in order to use the Arab people as a weapon to mass murder Jews and Protestants - see The Prophet by Chick Publications and the Aberto Series by Chick Publications - and make sure to pick up a copy of Is Alberto For Real? To learn the truth about how the Vatican lied - denying Alberto was a former Jesuit - even when he provided more than enough evidence to prove them liars - yes, Gadawg, does not have a leg to stand on when trying to defend something that is indefensible and the truth is there is nothing Christian about the Roman Catholic Institution. They do not even follow the teachings of the Bible. They changed the commandments by removing the commandment forbidding idolatry (because their cult requires it for Semiramis (Babylonian goddess called Queen of heaven and sun god Tammuz - her own son whom she married) and splitting another commandment into "two". The Jesuits have been behind the assassination of presidents (see 50 years in the Roman Church by Chiniquy) kings, world wars (plural) genocide, mass murder and running two sides of a war to confuse the enemy. They are masters of deceit. Followers of Jesus Christ?! Ha! Ha! I think not!

Amazing how Gadawg can despise the actions of Muslim terrorists and not recognize who their prophet got his instruction from! They are a carbon copy of the early Romanists! To the "t"!

Good news however! Roman Catholics who have converted to Christianity make the best Christians I've ever seen in my life. I'm an ex- Catholic myself and can tell you once you know the truth and it sets you free? The joy of knowing Christ is beyond words to describe!
I was listening to an evangelist preach from the 80's on video last night and he said the same thing. He said his church was mainly made up of ex-Catholics and he then said, I must tell you something! Ex- Catholics make the finest Christians in the World! He is so right. It has happened again and again that when I have met a truly sold out follower of Jesus Christ and asked them about their testimony? They more often than not tell me that they were raised in the Catholic church. They make better Christians than any other group I've ever seen. So there's that. A silver lining for Gadawg. I pray he converts and becomes a Christian. It is not my desire to see anyone perish in hell. I hate the very thought of it.

 

[cnm]

You're too stupid to live.

Yet I am not the one denying the Catholic Church is responsible for the bible.

 

[JWBooth]

If only these "Christians" were more like their Christ...

 

[Mr.Right]

You're too stupid to live.

Yet I am not the one denying the Catholic Church is responsible for the bible.

Wrong! The bible was written long before the Catholic church was a gleam in a certain pagan emporor's eye. Men of God assembled those books together with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Nothing you can say will change that.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Amazing how some "Christians" act just like Muslims with their nonsense of "my denomination of Christianity is right and yours is wrong invalidating you as a Christian".
Catholicism is the FIRST Christian denomination along with Eastern Orthodoxy.
Most of my fellow Christian brothers and sisters are totally ignorant of Christianity.

You are the one who is ignorant of what Catholicism is. It has its roots in the Babylonian religion. See this video to learn the truth. One should examine the evidence before condemning it as a lie. Don't you think?

One first has to have evidence to examine. You have offered nothing.

Of course I have, Gadawg. You have put man's word above God's Word. You care more for the praises of man than the praises of God which is why you are denying Jesus Christ openly on this board. You are not worried about what God thinks. You are worried about what mere mortal men think. Let me tell you why that is a mistake, Gadawg. When you die and leave this earth? Without Jesus Christ? You're going to hell. When you are in hell who is going to suffer for you? You are. Who is going to get you out? No one is. How long will you be there for? All eternity.

Let's say you are staying with Roman Catholicism because of your pride. You've spent too many years in there, invested a great deal of money, bought your indulgence payoffs already and although you may even know that you have been duped by a religiously robed pied piper you don't want to look foolish. So you've decided to stay and make the best of it. That won't wash in the end. You'll still end up in hell.

Let's say you want to be your own god and Roman Catholicism doesn't interfere with that goal (because it won't - the Mafia felt very comfortable in there until they left this earth and found themselves in hell - you know) so you're going to gamble on the chance that you can tell Jesus later on that you didn't know any better! That you had no idea Constantine was a sun god worshipper and created his religion to deceive the masses, protect his own occult religion and use Catholicism to hunt down and find true Protestants and kill them wherever they were found - that the goddess he told the world was Mary was really the witch - Semiramis - who called herself Queen of Heaven and that Tammuz was being sold to you as baby Jesus. You just didn't know any better! Otherwise you would have gotten out immediately and become a born again Christian as the Bible commands you to do in John Chapter 3 of the King James Bible. But that isn't going to work either! You know why? Because Jesus is going to tell you, I sent my servants to warn you and to tell you the truth and you told one of them that she didn't provide any evidence. She spent over a year on that board preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ and you rejected it. Now depart from me ye worker of iniquity, I never knew you.

Is that what you want? No. Of course not. So what must you do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Read Romans 10:9,10 and know that if you believe in your heart and CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH that Jesus died on the cross for your sins and God raised him on the 3rd day thou shalt be saved. Repent of your sins and invite Jesus Christ to be your Lord and Savior - repent of following the false teachings / idolatry of the Roman Catholic Institution and leave there at once. Find a good bible teaching church - bible study group and come into a relationship with Jesus Christ. Tell others about Him. Live for Jesus and when you die - you will live eternally with him. Amen? AMEN. TODAY IS THE DAY OF SALVATION. TODAY.

There is no salvation in the Roman Catholic Church. It's an abomination unto God - those inside that institution must get out or they will one day find themselves in hell!

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

God bless Mr. Right for putting up this thread. Surely the LORD is pleased with him today. The harvest is plentiful but the laborers are few. Pray to the Lord of the harvest for my laborers.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

If only these "Christians" were more like their Christ...

You won't be yawning when you are in hell, Booth. You're a wicked man and you need to repent while there is still breath in you to do it with. You're going to hell if you do not repent and call upon the Lord Jesus Christ to forgive you and to save you. That is the truth and if I didn't give it to you I would have your blood on my hands. Thank God that won't be the case now.

 

[Meriweather]

the RCC believes you do.

Incorrect. The Catholic Church teaches grace is a gift.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I'm praying today for God to pour out a blessing upon you, Mr. Right, that you cannot even contain! I know the LORD is going to bless you mightily! You are surely pleasing in the sight of God and that is the only thing that matters in this life! The ONLY THING! To God be the Glory!

 

[Meriweather]

Here is what the RCC says about Purgatory and the Bible about cleansing with water and with fire...the fire part, being called purgatory by the RCC. There are many verses in the Bible which they believe speak of this purging/purgatory/purifying.



Purgatory: The Purifying Fire
So that the genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold which though perishable is tested by fire... 1 Peter 1:7

Another commonly misunderstood teaching of the Church concerns Purgatory. Purgatory is not a second-chance for damned souls to repent. Instead it is a state of cleansing and purification for souls destined for heaven. Also Purgatory is not a means to earn our way to heaven, but a gift from God preparing us to see Him face to face. Even though not explicitly referred to by name, the Bible does allude to it, especially in terms of purging fire.

The word Purgatory is related to the verb - to purge - which means to cleanse or purify. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC):

All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. [CCC 1030-1031]

Only saved souls - those dying in God's friendship - can go through Purgatory onto heaven. To better understand Purgatory in the light of Christ's sacrifice of redemption, we need to first focus on the consequences of sin.

Through Baptism and faith (Mark 16:16), we become friends of God and receive sanctifying grace - the privilege of eternal life. This is all made possible by Christ's redemption of us. Unfortunately very serious sin - mortal sin - "kills" our friendship with God. By willfully committing mortal sin, we reject God, and we lose this sanctifying grace (Titus 1:16).

Christ's sacrifice on the Cross can still redeem our friendship with God; however, we must repent and seek God's forgiveness through the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Confession). If we do not repent and die in this graceless state, then we suffer the loss of eternal life. This loss is eternal punishment or hell (Matt 25:46). Hell is not punishment from a vengeful God, but the natural consequence of rejecting God - the Source of joy and life. Our redemption does not interfere with our free will; we can still reject our Lord through serious sin (Heb 10:26-27).

Now not all sin is mortal (1 John 5:17). Some sin is not serious enough to kill our friendship with God, but still it is harmful to us and neighbors. The mess (e.g. scandal) caused by our sin needs correction. This correction is temporal punishment (Hebrews 12:5-11). We can be corrected and cleansed through personal penance on earth or later in Purgatory - thanks to our Redeemer, Jesus Christ.

Jesus in the Gospel talks about this correction and indirectly Purgatory at the end of His parable on forgiveness:


And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers (torturers), till he should pay all his debt. So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart. [Matt 18:34-35]

In this passage there is no mention of God punishing very serious sinners but only those who sin by not forgiving others. Also the punishment referred to here is not eternal as in hell (Mark 9:47-48) but only temporary - "till he should pay all his debt."

Purgatory is a temporary state for souls in friendship with God (i.e. saved) who need cleansing from the bad effects, mess, scandal and attachments (attraction to sin) still remaining from forgiven mortal sins and less serious venial sins. Such tainted souls, though saved, cannot enter heaven directly. As stated in the Bible: "But nothing unclean shall enter it (heaven)..." [Rev 21:27]. These souls need to be purged of all "uncleanness", no matter how slight before seeing God face to face (Rev 22:3-5). Eventually all souls in Purgatory will go to heaven.
St. Paul makes allusions to this in terms of fire in his Epistle to the Corinthians:


Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble - each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. [1 Cor 3:12-15]

Our works built on Christ will be tested. Inferior works - "wood, hay and stubble" - will be purged by "fire", while only the "gold, silver and precious stones" will survive for heaven. The clause, "he will suffer loss," implies temporary hardship and punishment, even though he will be saved. St. Peter in his Epistle also reminds us that the genuineness of our faith "is tested by fire." [1 Peter 1:7]

Now some Christians object to the doctrine of Purgatory and cite the repentant thief in the Gospel:

And he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingly power." And Jesus said to him, "Truly, I say to you today you will be with me in Paradise." [Luke 23:42-43]

According to them, since Jesus promised this particular repentant sinner to be in "Paradise" with Him that very day, there is in general no need for Purgatory. This argument has several flaws though. First Christ could have granted this particular repentant sinner what the Church refers to as a "Plenary indulgence" - the total remission of temporal punishment due to already forgiven sins. Secondly Christ could have known that the thief's suffering on his cross was sufficient personal penance to purify his soul. However a more interesting point is that Jesus after His death did not go immediately to heaven. According to the Epistle of St. Peter:


For Christ also died for sins... being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey... [1 Peter 3:18-20]

Immediately after His death, Jesus "went and preached to the spirits in prison." Now this "prison" is surely not heaven, nor can it be hell since the souls in hell could not benefit from Christ's preaching. It is a third state. Perhaps the repentant thief joined Christ there that very day. In comparison to hell, Purgatory could rightly be described as Paradise.

Others may object by citing that Christ's Blood "cleanses us from all sin." [1 John 1:7] Now that is true, but His sacrifice of redemption can be applied in different ways, such as through Baptism, Confession, prayer... Another way is Purgatory. Soap and water may be enough to cleanse my body; however, both can be applied in different ways: sitz bath, sponge bath or shower.

The Church encourages us to pray for the dead since they may be in Purgatory needing our prayers. Praying for the dead is quite biblical. In the Book of Maccabees found in the Catholic and Orthodox Old Testament, Judas Maccabees took a collection for a sin offering for his men who died in battle:


For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead... Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. [2 Macc 12:44-45]

St. Paul offers a short prayer for Onesiphorus and his family:


May the Lord grant mercy to the household of Onesiphorus... may the Lord grant him to find mercy from the Lord on that Day... [2 Tim 1:16 & 18]

Whether dead or live, St. Paul intercedes (mediates) for him to God (1 Tim 2:1-5).

In the Bible St. Paul writes about a purging fire that will purify our works "for the Day." St. Peter reminds us that our faith will be refined and tested by fire. Elsewhere in the Bible, the action of the Holy Spirit is described as fire. "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire." [Luke 3:16] According to the Spanish mystic, St. John of the Cross, the fire of Purgatory is God's Love purifying our soul in preparation for the final beatific vision - the heavenly union with God. (Rev 22:3-5) "For indeed our God is a consuming fire." [Heb 12:29]

A very thorough and well presented collection of scripture passages speaking of purgatory/purification. Those who had asked for scripture verification should be grateful for your work. Thank you.

 

[cnm]

You won't be yawning when you are in hell, Booth. You're a wicked man and you need to repent while there is still breath in you to do it with. You're going to hell if you do not repent and call upon the Lord Jesus Christ to forgive you and to save you. That is the truth and if I didn't give it to you I would have your blood on my hands. Thank God that won't be the case now.

Ooh ooh, can I go too? The company will be much better.

 

[Meriweather]

I go by what the Bible teaches

Do you really expect anyone to read all of that?

Do you see the irony in these two statements? "All of that" was a collection of scripture teachings on purification/purgatory.

 

[Mr.Right]

I go by what the Bible teaches

Do you really expect anyone to read all of that?

Do you see the irony in these two statements? "All of that" was a collection of scripture teachings on purification/purgatory.

No. It was your attempt to reinterpret what the Bible really says.

 

[Meriweather]

Wrong! The bible was written long before the Catholic church was a gleam in a certain pagan emporor's eye. Men of God assembled those books together with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Nothing you can say will change that.

The Catholic Church was founded on Pentecost, long before Constantine was a gleam in anyone's eye.