Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[Ventura77]

...if you believe that 20th century Jews have 'rights to territory in Palestine' please present proof...not more of your static and bluster---PROOF!!!!!

List your criteria for the right of a people to self-determination and sovereignty.

I've got a better idea---you claimed that Jews have rights to the lands of Palestine...we both know that no such rights exist, however I'm still waiting for proof. Here's a mild hint...piratical seizure and ethnic cleansing are not really inscribed in the UN charter or ICC mandate...

 

[Sixties Fan]

...if you believe that 20th century Jews have 'rights to territory in Palestine' please present proof...not more of your static and bluster---PROOF!!!!!

List your criteria for the right of a people to self-determination and sovereignty.

"A people" are the people inside a defined territory. The Palestinians are the original citizens of Palestine, a territory defined by international borders.

The people of the place are the sovereigns within their own defined territory. They do not have sovereignty outside their own territory. The French, for example, have no sovereignty in Britain.

As a Christian, you well know that the Jewish Nation is regarded as a People.
They are the original People, citizens of what was known as the region of Palestine, where their Nation - Israel - was situated.

The Jewish People were the sovereign ones from King David on, 3000 years ago with very defined "international" borders (although they were not called that at the time)

Losing sovereignty to invading conquerors does not make the Jewish Nation less of the rightful owner within its own territories, no matter how long a time has passed since they had any sovereignty over it.

Israel, is not asking to be sovereign over Gaza. Or Lebanon, or Jordan, or Egypt.
Only over its own ancient land. 20 % of what was left after 78% was given to the Arabs, and another percent ended up also with Arabs, in Gaza.

Some percent is in Arab hands in Areas A and B of Judea and Samaria, known to be ancient Jewish Homeland.

Your examples keep being confused.

The Arabs, if we follow your examples, have no sovereignty over the 20 or so Arab countries outside of their original homeland/Country/Nation/Territory. It should be given back to the indigenous people of those lands.

How are we going to accomplish that?

The more the Arab/Muslims have, the more they want.

Is it fair for the Arabs to have the 20% of the Jewish Homeland the Jews are now sovereign of, if the Arabs are not Jews, and it is not their territory?

 

[Ventura77]

...if you believe that 20th century Jews have 'rights to territory in Palestine' please present proof...not more of your static and bluster---PROOF!!!!!

List your criteria for the right of a people to self-determination and sovereignty.

I've got a better idea---you claimed that Jews have rights to the lands of Palestine...we both know that no such rights exist, however I'm still waiting for proof. Here's a mild hint...piratical seizure and ethnic cleansing are not really inscribed in the UN charter or ICC mandate...

Jews admit not Jewish




Jewish and other sources admit that they are not Israelites, but Khazars that came from Russia. They earlier were Gentiles that converted to Judaism. It doesn't say in these sources that before that they were Edomites, but other sources do.

The Kingdoms of Israel and Judah

The Jews admit that they are not the descendants of the Ancient Israelites in their writings. Under the heading of "A brief History of the Terms for Jew" in the 1980 Jewish Almanac is the following:

"Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a ‘Jew’ or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew."

(1980 Jewish Almanac, p. 3).

Encyclopedia Americana (1985):

"Khazar, an ancient Turkic speaking people who ruled a large and powerful state in the steppes North of the Caucasus Mountains from the 7th century to their demise in the mid 11th century A.D... In the 8th Century it's political and religious head... as well as the greater part of the Khazar nobility, abandoned paganism and converted to Judaism... (The Khazars are believed to be the ancestors of most Russian and Eastern European Jews)."

 

[Shusha]

"A people" are the people inside a defined territory. ...

The people of the place are the sovereigns within their own defined territory.

This is a criteria based on residence. So the Jewish people who live in the defined territory are people of the place. And the Arab Palestinians who no longer dwell within the territory are no longer people of the place and have no further rights?

Did you want to go with that?

 

[Hollie]

Which is why Israel has borders with Jordan and with Egypt in the place that they are.

None of them have the authority to change Palestine's borders.

Palestine = Israel

All of Palestine = Israel

Israel approved of those borders, those are the borders.

Israel also signed agreements saying that territory is Palestine.

But, then again, Israel is a lying sack of shit country. They will do anything hoping nobody will call then on it.

All the more reason to bring the full weight and authority of your international law presence to resolve this.

Maybe you could, ya' know, sue the shit out of em'.

Indeed, the Palestinians are working on that as we speak.

Indeed, they are. By building tunnels which become their coffins.

And allah knows best.

 

[Shusha]

I've got a better idea---you claimed that Jews have rights to the lands of Palestine...we both know that no such rights exist,

So, define what rights DO exist, in your opinion.

 

[Ventura77]

...if you believe that 20th century Jews have 'rights to territory in Palestine' please present proof...not more of your static and bluster---PROOF!!!!!

List your criteria for the right of a people to self-determination and sovereignty.

"A people" are the people inside a defined territory. The Palestinians are the original citizens of Palestine, a territory defined by international borders.

The people of the place are the sovereigns within their own defined territory. They do not have sovereignty outside their own territory. The French, for example, have no sovereignty in Britain.

As a Christian, you well know that the Jewish Nation is regarded as a People.
They are the original People, citizens of what was known as the region of Palestine, where their Nation - Israel - was situated.

The Jewish People were the sovereign ones from King David on, 3000 years ago with very defined "international" borders (although they were not called that at the time)

Losing sovereignty to invading conquerors does not make the Jewish Nation less of the rightful owner within its own territories, no matter how long a time has passed since they had any sovereignty over it.

Israel, is not asking to be sovereign over Gaza. Or Lebanon, or Jordan, or Egypt.
Only over its own ancient land. 20 % of what was left after 78% was given to the Arabs, and another percent ended up also with Arabs, in Gaza.

Some percent is in Arab hands in Areas A and B of Judea and Samaria, known to be ancient Jewish Homeland.

Your examples keep being confused.

The Arabs, if we follow your examples, have no sovereignty over the 20 or so Arab countries outside of their original homeland/Country/Nation/Territory. It should be given back to the indigenous people of those lands.

How are we going to accomplish that?

The more the Arab/Muslims have, the more they want.

Is it fair for the Arabs to have the 20% of the Jewish Homeland the Jews are now sovereign of, if the Arabs are not Jews, and it is not their territory?

Dude you are exceptionally dense...the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms expired in the late 7th century...from that point on through history Arab/Palestinians have resided in overwhelming majority in historic Palestine...again your basic argument is with Hiam Weitzman...Theodore Herzl...David Ben Gurion...Menachem Begin...Moshe Dayan...etc...etc. Think I'll go with their authority...LOL

 

[Sixties Fan]

...if you believe that 20th century Jews have 'rights to territory in Palestine' please present proof...not more of your static and bluster---PROOF!!!!!

List your criteria for the right of a people to self-determination and sovereignty.

I've got a better idea---you claimed that Jews have rights to the lands of Palestine...we both know that no such rights exist, however I'm still waiting for proof. Here's a mild hint...piratical seizure and ethnic cleansing are not really inscribed in the UN charter or ICC mandate...

You mean like the piratical seizure by the Saudi Clan of Hashemite Land around the time of WWI?

Or the piratical seizure of all of TransJordan by the Hashemite Clan
post WWI?

Or the piratical seizure of Crimea by Russia?

Or the piratical seizure of Northern Cyprus by Turkey?

How many more piratical seizures are there which you do not give a darn about?

Only the "Zionist Pirates" Oh, ho, ho

 

[Ventura77]

"A people" are the people inside a defined territory. ...

The people of the place are the sovereigns within their own defined territory.

This is a criteria based on residence. So the Jewish people who live in the defined territory are people of the place. And the Arab Palestinians who no longer dwell within the territory are no longer people of the place and have no further rights?

Did you want to go with that?

No doubt your tiny atrophied propaganda-saturated brain cannot process terms like 'ethnic cleansing' or 'criminal occupiers'...you keep coming back with the same stupid bullshit hoping that mindless repetition will somehow make it credible...

 

[Sixties Fan]

...if you believe that 20th century Jews have 'rights to territory in Palestine' please present proof...not more of your static and bluster---PROOF!!!!!

List your criteria for the right of a people to self-determination and sovereignty.

"A people" are the people inside a defined territory. The Palestinians are the original citizens of Palestine, a territory defined by international borders.

The people of the place are the sovereigns within their own defined territory. They do not have sovereignty outside their own territory. The French, for example, have no sovereignty in Britain.

As a Christian, you well know that the Jewish Nation is regarded as a People.
They are the original People, citizens of what was known as the region of Palestine, where their Nation - Israel - was situated.

The Jewish People were the sovereign ones from King David on, 3000 years ago with very defined "international" borders (although they were not called that at the time)

Losing sovereignty to invading conquerors does not make the Jewish Nation less of the rightful owner within its own territories, no matter how long a time has passed since they had any sovereignty over it.

Israel, is not asking to be sovereign over Gaza. Or Lebanon, or Jordan, or Egypt.
Only over its own ancient land. 20 % of what was left after 78% was given to the Arabs, and another percent ended up also with Arabs, in Gaza.

Some percent is in Arab hands in Areas A and B of Judea and Samaria, known to be ancient Jewish Homeland.

Your examples keep being confused.

The Arabs, if we follow your examples, have no sovereignty over the 20 or so Arab countries outside of their original homeland/Country/Nation/Territory. It should be given back to the indigenous people of those lands.

How are we going to accomplish that?

The more the Arab/Muslims have, the more they want.

Is it fair for the Arabs to have the 20% of the Jewish Homeland the Jews are now sovereign of, if the Arabs are not Jews, and it is not their territory?

Dude you are exceptionally dense...the last of the ancient Jewish kingdoms expired in the late 7th century...from that point on through history Arab/Palestinians have resided in overwhelming majority in historic Palestine...again your basic argument is with Hiam Weitzman...Theodore Herzl...David Ben Gurion...Menachem Begin...Moshe Dayan...etc...etc. Think I'll go with their authority...LOL

History is not your forte

 

[Shusha]

No doubt your tiny atrophied propaganda-saturated brain cannot process terms like 'ethnic cleansing' or 'criminal occupiers'...you keep coming back with the same stupid bullshit hoping that mindless repetition will somehow make it credible...

All I am doing is confirming I understand Tinmore's belief system. I haven't even got to the part yet where I point out his hypocrisy.

 

[Hollie]

...if you believe that 20th century Jews have 'rights to territory in Palestine' please present proof...not more of your static and bluster---PROOF!!!!!

List your criteria for the right of a people to self-determination and sovereignty.

"A people" are the people inside a defined territory. The Palestinians are the original citizens of Palestine, a territory defined by international borders.

The people of the place are the sovereigns within their own defined territory. They do not have sovereignty outside their own territory. The French, for example, have no sovereignty in Britain.

As usual, you're just being silly. The various moslem colonists, Christian Crusaders and Mongol invaders all shared in the population churn that defined the geographic area of "Pal'istan".

Why not promote the fraud that moslems have lived in "Pal'istan" for "thousands of years." That's a good one.

 

[Ventura77]

I've got a better idea---you claimed that Jews have rights to the lands of Palestine...we both know that no such rights exist,

So, define what rights DO exist, in your opinion.

Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL

 

[Ventura77]

No doubt your tiny atrophied propaganda-saturated brain cannot process terms like 'ethnic cleansing' or 'criminal occupiers'...you keep coming back with the same stupid bullshit hoping that mindless repetition will somehow make it credible...

All I am doing is confirming I understand Tinmore's belief system. I haven't even got to the part yet where I point out his hypocrisy.

Maybe you could endeavor to point out your own hypocrisy?

 

[Shusha]

Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL

Okay. So you are starting to build your criteria. Residency grants rights. Being ethnically cleansed (as the Jews were) removes rights.

Did you want to go with that?

 

[Hollie]

No doubt your tiny atrophied propaganda-saturated brain cannot process terms like 'ethnic cleansing' or 'criminal occupiers'...you keep coming back with the same stupid bullshit hoping that mindless repetition will somehow make it credible...

All I am doing is confirming I understand Tinmore's belief system. I haven't even got to the part yet where I point out his hypocrisy.

Been there, done that. It's called The Tinmore Vortex™

 

[Shusha]

Maybe you could endeavor to point out your own hypocrisy?

Shrug. I have none. The Jewish people have the same rights as all indigenous peoples. The Arab Palestinian peoples have the same rights as all peoples of long tenure. No hypocrisy.

 

[Ventura77]

...if you believe that 20th century Jews have 'rights to territory in Palestine' please present proof...not more of your static and bluster---PROOF!!!!!

List your criteria for the right of a people to self-determination and sovereignty.

I've got a better idea---you claimed that Jews have rights to the lands of Palestine...we both know that no such rights exist, however I'm still waiting for proof. Here's a mild hint...piratical seizure and ethnic cleansing are not really inscribed in the UN charter or ICC mandate...

You mean like the piratical seizure by the Saudi Clan of Hashemite Land around the time of WWI?

Or the piratical seizure of all of TransJordan by the Hashemite Clan
post WWI?

Or the piratical seizure of Crimea by Russia?

Or the piratical seizure of Northern Cyprus by the Turkey?

How many more piratical seizures are there which you do not give a darn about?

Only the "Zionist Pirates" Oh, ho, ho

You seem to vacillate between two competing and irreconcilable narrative Goober: on the one hand you claim that Eastern European Jews had some fictive right ti invade and occupy Palestine...failing that angle you adopt a comparison-based argument...so far as I know there are no criminal occupations of a native people that share the specific details and basic character of the Israeli/Palestinian impasse...

 

[Hollie]

I've got a better idea---you claimed that Jews have rights to the lands of Palestine...we both know that no such rights exist,

So, define what rights DO exist, in your opinion.

Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL

Define for us what specific group had 13 consecutive centuries of residency.

 

[Ventura77]

Tenure invariably defines residency rights...let's crawl out on a limb and theorize that 13 consecutive centuries of residency trumps 70 years of criminal occupation...still waiting for that proof of Jews' rights to Palestine...you must have misplaced it...LOL

Okay. So you are starting to build your criteria. Residency grants rights. Being ethnically cleansed (as the Jews were) removes rights.

Did you want to go with that?

I'm still waiting for that proof you spoke of...could it be that you are full of shit Shusha? Show me an absentee land claim which spans centuries okay? Then topple Elhaik's proof that Israeli Jews are not Semites...