Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[Shusha]

What do you have against liberation?

We are not against liberation. In fact, to the contrary, many here support the liberation of the Jewish people in their homeland. Arab Palestinians are also welcome to liberation. They could have had it decades ago. They could have it tomorrow. In Gaza and in Area A they ALREADY have it. There is absolutely no reason for both peoples not to have liberation and national sovereignty. (Though as of 2019, the Arab Palestinians show a distinct lack of capacity to achieve the necessary prerequisites for national sovereignty).

The Arab Palestinians are not seeking liberation. What the Arab Palestinians are, in fact, seeking is not liberation but the prevention of liberation. They seek to deny the Jewish people liberation, self-determination and sovereignty. They do this with weasel ideas like "territorial integrity" as though it were impossible to divide former nations into smaller territories to accomplish national liberation of peoples. (Which is especially ridiculous given the partition of the Ottoman Empire, of which they are a part.)

It would appear that they, and you, are the ones who have something against liberation.

 

[P F Tinmore]

What do you have against liberation?

We are not against liberation. In fact, to the contrary, many here support the liberation of the Jewish people in their homeland. Arab Palestinians are also welcome to liberation. They could have had it decades ago. They could have it tomorrow. In Gaza and in Area A they ALREADY have it. There is absolutely no reason for both peoples not to have liberation and national sovereignty. (Though as of 2019, the Arab Palestinians show a distinct lack of capacity to achieve the necessary prerequisites for national sovereignty).

The Arab Palestinians are not seeking liberation. What the Arab Palestinians are, in fact, seeking is not liberation but the prevention of liberation. They seek to deny the Jewish people liberation, self-determination and sovereignty. They do this with weasel ideas like "territorial integrity" as though it were impossible to divide former nations into smaller territories to accomplish national liberation of peoples. (Which is especially ridiculous given the partition of the Ottoman Empire, of which they are a part.)

It would appear that they, and you, are the ones who have something against liberation.

They do this with weasel ideas like "territorial integrity" as though it were impossible to divide former nations into smaller territories to accomplish national liberation of peoples. (Which is especially ridiculous given the partition of the Ottoman Empire, of which they are a part.)

OK, the partition of the Ottoman Empire.

• The people who lived in the territory that became Lebanon live in Lebanon.
• The people who lived in the territory that became Syria live in Syria.
• The people who lived in the territory that became Iraq live in Iraq.
• The people who lived in the territory that became Jordan live in Jordan.
• The people who lived in the territory that became Palestine live somewhere else.

The difference is obvious.

 

[Hollie]

What do you have against liberation?

We are not against liberation. In fact, to the contrary, many here support the liberation of the Jewish people in their homeland. Arab Palestinians are also welcome to liberation. They could have had it decades ago. They could have it tomorrow. In Gaza and in Area A they ALREADY have it. There is absolutely no reason for both peoples not to have liberation and national sovereignty. (Though as of 2019, the Arab Palestinians show a distinct lack of capacity to achieve the necessary prerequisites for national sovereignty).

The Arab Palestinians are not seeking liberation. What the Arab Palestinians are, in fact, seeking is not liberation but the prevention of liberation. They seek to deny the Jewish people liberation, self-determination and sovereignty. They do this with weasel ideas like "territorial integrity" as though it were impossible to divide former nations into smaller territories to accomplish national liberation of peoples. (Which is especially ridiculous given the partition of the Ottoman Empire, of which they are a part.)

It would appear that they, and you, are the ones who have something against liberation.

They do this with weasel ideas like "territorial integrity" as though it were impossible to divide former nations into smaller territories to accomplish national liberation of peoples. (Which is especially ridiculous given the partition of the Ottoman Empire, of which they are a part.)

OK, the partition of the Ottoman Empire.

• The people who lived in the territory that became Lebanon live in Lebanon.
• The people who lived in the territory that became Syria live in Syria.
• The people who lived in the territory that became Iraq live in Iraq.
• The people who lived in the territory that became Jordan live in Jordan.
• The people who lived in the territory that became Palestine live somewhere else.

The difference is obvious.

OK, indeed, The roughly defined geographic area called "Palestine" was called such before the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. It didnt magically appear post Ottoman collapse.

 

[P F Tinmore]

What do you have against liberation?

We are not against liberation. In fact, to the contrary, many here support the liberation of the Jewish people in their homeland. Arab Palestinians are also welcome to liberation. They could have had it decades ago. They could have it tomorrow. In Gaza and in Area A they ALREADY have it. There is absolutely no reason for both peoples not to have liberation and national sovereignty. (Though as of 2019, the Arab Palestinians show a distinct lack of capacity to achieve the necessary prerequisites for national sovereignty).

The Arab Palestinians are not seeking liberation. What the Arab Palestinians are, in fact, seeking is not liberation but the prevention of liberation. They seek to deny the Jewish people liberation, self-determination and sovereignty. They do this with weasel ideas like "territorial integrity" as though it were impossible to divide former nations into smaller territories to accomplish national liberation of peoples. (Which is especially ridiculous given the partition of the Ottoman Empire, of which they are a part.)

It would appear that they, and you, are the ones who have something against liberation.

They do this with weasel ideas like "territorial integrity" as though it were impossible to divide former nations into smaller territories to accomplish national liberation of peoples. (Which is especially ridiculous given the partition of the Ottoman Empire, of which they are a part.)

OK, the partition of the Ottoman Empire.

• The people who lived in the territory that became Lebanon live in Lebanon.
• The people who lived in the territory that became Syria live in Syria.
• The people who lived in the territory that became Iraq live in Iraq.
• The people who lived in the territory that became Jordan live in Jordan.
• The people who lived in the territory that became Palestine live somewhere else.

The difference is obvious.

OK, indeed, The roughly defined geographic area called "Palestine" was called such before the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. It didnt magically appear post Ottoman collapse.

So?

 

[Hollie]

What do you have against liberation?

We are not against liberation. In fact, to the contrary, many here support the liberation of the Jewish people in their homeland. Arab Palestinians are also welcome to liberation. They could have had it decades ago. They could have it tomorrow. In Gaza and in Area A they ALREADY have it. There is absolutely no reason for both peoples not to have liberation and national sovereignty. (Though as of 2019, the Arab Palestinians show a distinct lack of capacity to achieve the necessary prerequisites for national sovereignty).

The Arab Palestinians are not seeking liberation. What the Arab Palestinians are, in fact, seeking is not liberation but the prevention of liberation. They seek to deny the Jewish people liberation, self-determination and sovereignty. They do this with weasel ideas like "territorial integrity" as though it were impossible to divide former nations into smaller territories to accomplish national liberation of peoples. (Which is especially ridiculous given the partition of the Ottoman Empire, of which they are a part.)

It would appear that they, and you, are the ones who have something against liberation.

They do this with weasel ideas like "territorial integrity" as though it were impossible to divide former nations into smaller territories to accomplish national liberation of peoples. (Which is especially ridiculous given the partition of the Ottoman Empire, of which they are a part.)

OK, the partition of the Ottoman Empire.

• The people who lived in the territory that became Lebanon live in Lebanon.
• The people who lived in the territory that became Syria live in Syria.
• The people who lived in the territory that became Iraq live in Iraq.
• The people who lived in the territory that became Jordan live in Jordan.
• The people who lived in the territory that became Palestine live somewhere else.

The difference is obvious.

OK, indeed, The roughly defined geographic area called "Palestine" was called such before the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. It didnt magically appear post Ottoman collapse.

So?

Precisely.

 

[Shusha]

OK, the partition of the Ottoman Empire.

• The people who lived in the territory that became Lebanon live in Lebanon, except for the Jews who were expelled.
• The people who lived in the territory that became Syria live in Syria, except for the Jews who were expelled.
• The people who lived in the territory that became Iraq live in Iraq, except for the Jews who were expelled.
• The people who lived in the territory that became Jordan live in Jordan, except for the Jews who were expelled.
• The people who lived in the territory that became Palestine live somewhere else are two distinct national groups with separate liberation movements because the Arabs were unsuccessful at expelling the Jews and the Jews chose not to expel the Arabs.

There. I fixed it for you. The point (which you dodged) is that there was no requirement for the Ottoman Empire to remain intact (have territorial integrity) in the face of peoples seeking liberation and national independence. There is no requirement for Palestine (now called Israel, Judea and Samaria once again) to remain intact. Indeed, less so since Arab Palestine was never a sovereign entity and definitively proven true when it was divided into Israel and Jordan.

Thus your weasel call for "liberation" is nothing more than a demand for more territory, and more specifically, a demand that the Jewish people be denied their own liberation movement. You don't believe in liberation.

 

[Sixties Fan]

http://www.israelhayom.com/2019/02/06/beekeepers-losing-hundreds-of-hives-to-agricultural-terror/

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is foolishness.

The partitioning of the territory that was comprised of the Vilayet of Beirut, made up of 6 Sanjak (Latakia, Tripoli, Mount Lebanon, Beirut, Acre and Nablus) is half in present day "Lebanon" and half in present-day "Israel."

The comment you offered makes no sense.

• The people who lived in the territory that became Lebanon live in Lebanon.

✦ In 1916, when the Sykes-Picot Agreement was made, there was no country or political subdivision of "Lebanon," Today's Lebanon was once the Sanjaks of Latakia, Tripoli, Mount Lebanon.​

The comment you offered makes no sense.

• The people who lived in the territory that became Syria live in Syria.

✦ In 1918, when the when the Armistice of Mudros was signed, there was no country or political subdivision of "Jordan" as there is today. It was the Vilyet of Syria and what became Jordan​

The comment you offered makes no sense.

• The people who lived in the territory that became Jordan live in Jordan.

✦ In 1922, when the Mandate was put into effect, there was no country or political subdivision of "Jordan" as there is today. It was still part of the Vilyet of Syria which was composed of Sanjaks of Hauran and Ma'an. The southern half of the Sanjak of Damascus was also to become the northern portion of Jordan.
​

• The people who lived in the territory that became Palestine live somewhere else.

The difference is obvious.

(COMMENT)

Yes, there are obvious differences. But not many differences in the decisionmaking processes that guided nations in the years following the Great War (WWI).

I notice that the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians and those that follow their cause (Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter) often attempt to make these arguments based on analogies: Once again I remind you:

Article 22
Nullum crimen sine lege

The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by analogy. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favor of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.

Most every argument made by the Jihadists, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters in support of the Hostile Arab Palestinians of those Arab Palestinian people claiming to want "their rights" employ tactics using the unlawful and intentional use of force (explosives, rocket fire, kidnapping, murder and other lethal lethal activities) in or against various defined public places with intent to cause serious bodily injury (callous disregard for human life), or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.

The pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians that receive some sort of remuneration for conducting acts of violence don't perceive themselves as perpetrators conducting criminal acts directed against the State of Israel and its allies, intended or calculation to create a state of terror in the minds of the Israeli People, and to destabilize the Jewish National Home. Yet everything about their past history is an encyclopedia of criminal behaviors.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is foolishness.

The partitioning of the territory that was comprised of the Vilayet of Beirut, made up of 6 Sanjak (Latakia, Tripoli, Mount Lebanon, Beirut, Acre and Nablus) is half in present day "Lebanon" and half in present-day "Israel."

The comment you offered makes no sense.

• The people who lived in the territory that became Lebanon live in Lebanon.

✦ In 1916, when the Sykes-Picot Agreement was made, there was no country or political subdivision of "Lebanon," Today's Lebanon was once the Sanjaks of Latakia, Tripoli, Mount Lebanon.​

The comment you offered makes no sense.

• The people who lived in the territory that became Syria live in Syria.

✦ In 1918, when the when the Armistice of Mudros was signed, there was no country or political subdivision of "Jordan" as there is today. It was the Vilyet of Syria and what became Jordan​

The comment you offered makes no sense.

• The people who lived in the territory that became Jordan live in Jordan.

✦ In 1922, when the Mandate was put into effect, there was no country or political subdivision of "Jordan" as there is today. It was still part of the Vilyet of Syria which was composed of Sanjaks of Hauran and Ma'an. The southern half of the Sanjak of Damascus was also to become the northern portion of Jordan.
​

• The people who lived in the territory that became Palestine live somewhere else.

The difference is obvious.

(COMMENT)

Yes, there are obvious differences. But not many differences in the decisionmaking processes that guided nations in the years following the Great War (WWI).

I notice that the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians and those that follow their cause (Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter) often attempt to make these arguments based on analogies: Once again I remind you:

Article 22
Nullum crimen sine lege

The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by analogy. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favor of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.

Most every argument made by the Jihadists, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters in support of the Hostile Arab Palestinians of those Arab Palestinian people claiming to want "their rights" employ tactics using the unlawful and intentional use of force (explosives, rocket fire, kidnapping, murder and other lethal lethal activities) in or against various defined public places with intent to cause serious bodily injury (callous disregard for human life), or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.

The pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians that receive some sort of remuneration for conducting acts of violence don't perceive themselves as perpetrators conducting criminal acts directed against the State of Israel and its allies, intended or calculation to create a state of terror in the minds of the Israeli People, and to destabilize the Jewish National Home. Yet everything about their past history is an encyclopedia of criminal behaviors.

Most Respectfully,
R

You shouldn't talk about criminal behavior from Israel's side of the fence.

 

[Sixties Fan]

A balloon landed in Moshav Bitkha, near Ofakim, on Sunday night. This time, the colorful rubber orb carried no incendiary device—only a message in Arabic, which read:

"We, the people of Gaza, need medical treatment. Remove the blockade."


Well, “we, the people of Israel” would like to suggest that the blockade has nothing to do with your ability to obtain medical treatment for your people. Take all the European aid you receive and build hospitals. If you want to be a state, don't depend on your neighbors to provide you with basic necessities like medical care.
And don’t go crying to us about your poverty. You’ve launched thousands of rockets, mortars, and missiles into Israel. That costs money. Lots of money.


Take mortars, for instance. They cost $24,717, each. But when Israel hits back, there goes the mortar (and $24,717).

Mortar rounds can get expensive, too. They cost anywhere from $5.52-$438, depending on type.
How about a Grad missile? They cost $1,000 a pop, if you’ll excuse the expression. (As an aside, the cost to intercept them with Iron Dome, is $100,000.)
--------------
But instead of making something of yourselves: making good, and caring for your own, your hate drives you only toward your own self-destruction.

The money will continue to dry up, and as it does, you might take a minute to rethink this whole thing. Build a hospital or two, try to stand on your own two feet.

But we know you won’t. Because you really don’t care if your people live or die.

As long as you can continue to make war against the Jews.

(full article online)

To the People of Gaza: Buy Your Own Darn Hospitals (Judean Rose) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, this is another one of those inferences without substance.

[QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 21768070, member: 21837
You shouldn't talk about criminal behavior from Israel's side of the fence.[/QUOTE]
(COMMENT)

Baby Steps: Name one crime --- that you think would stick --- in this last year that you are sure is a crime...
Tell us what happened and then tell us what crime you think was committed.

Pick one you are sure of...

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, this is another one of those inferences without substance.

[QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 21768070, member: 21837
You shouldn't talk about criminal behavior from Israel's side of the fence.

(COMMENT)

Baby Steps: Name one crime --- that you think would stick --- in this last year that you are sure is a crime...
Tell us what happened and then tell us what crime you think was committed.

Pick one you are sure of...

Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]
Stealing land. Destroying private property. Military attacks on civilians.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, this is another one of those inferences without substance.

[QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 21768070, member: 21837
You shouldn't talk about criminal behavior from Israel's side of the fence.

(COMMENT)

Baby Steps: Name one crime --- that you think would stick --- in this last year that you are sure is a crime...
Tell us what happened and then tell us what crime you think was committed.

Pick one you are sure of...

Most Respectfully,
R

Stealing land. Destroying private property. Military attacks on civilians.

[/QUOTE]

Your usual canned, cut and paste YouTube video is evidence of nothing.

 

[Hollie]

I would be curious to know if anyone is surprised that islamic terrorist dictators use arrest and torture to silence critics.




Palestinian forces routinely arresting and torturing critics - HRW

Palestinian forces 'torturing critics'

The Fatah-led Palestinian Authority in the occupied West Bank and Hamas authorities in the Gaza Strip routinely arrest and torture peaceful critics and opponents, Human Rights Watch says.

A report based on interviews with former detainees alleges the rival factions have "established machineries of repression to crush dissent".

 

[Hollie]

Nothing says "Death Cult" like a large gathering of smiling Arabs-Moslems celebrating an islamic terrorist killer.

I suppose that a society promoting the worship of a 7th century Arab warlord and a cradle to grave indoctrination in the glory of mass murder / suicide will lead to some pretty dangerous pathologies.



PA Minister of Education honors murderer

PA Minister of Education honors murderer - PMW Bulletins


Ceremony with murderer's mother at ministry
is "gesture of loyalty" to terrorist murderer Karim Younes

Minister conveyed greetings to terrorist and his family
from PA leadership and Fatah Central Committee

By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
The Palestinian Authority continues to honor murderer Karim Younes, who is one of the so-called Palestinian "veteran" prisoners and serving time for kidnapping and murdering Israeli soldier Avraham Bromberg in 1980.

This week, PA Minister of Education Sabri Saidam led the way at a ceremony at the PA Ministry of Education. Younes' mother was guest of honor and Minister Saidam stressed that the ceremony was "a gesture of loyalty to prisoner Younes and his family," and "conveyed the greetings of the Palestinian leadership and the [Fatah] Central Committee members to them." [Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Feb. 4, 2019]

The minister emphasized the PA's support for murderer Younes and other imprisoned terrorists, calling them "symbols":

Minister Saidam: "The Ministry of Education will remain the most loyal to the national values and to the symbols who have defended the national enterprise."
[Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Feb. 4, 2019]

 

[Sixties Fan]

Puppets on a String Draw Children’s Smiles in Gaza

 

[Hollie]

As so-called ‘honor killers’ get away with murder, Palestinians say law, judges outdated.

As so-called ‘honor killers’ get away with murder, Palestinians say law, judges outdated

The Palestinians in the West Bank inherited Article 99, [the "honor killing" get out of jail free card -ed.] as well as the bulk of their penal code, from their former rulers, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

Despite a series of reforms to the Palestinian legal code since 2011 aimed at preventing so-called “honor killings,” the law has continued to allow men who murder, assault and rape women in the Palestinian territories to receive significantly reduced sentences.

Over the past half year, a petition initiated by Palestinian women’s rights groups has received over 12,000 signatures asking Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to do away with the measure, which allows judges to use their discretion in cases that have “extenuating circumstances.”

Yet while the law’s effect on women is well-known and well-documented, neither canceling, freezing nor amending it is in the cards.

According to a legal adviser for the Palestinian Authority’s Women’s Affairs Ministry, the law is necessary to ensure justice in some cases.


"...the law is necessary to ensure justice in some cases." (((Record Scratch Sound Effect)))

 

[Sixties Fan]

A four year old Palestinian child was abandoned by his father at Erez crossing on Tuesday, COGAT [Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories] said in a press release on Thursday, after leaving his child with a stranger the father chose to remain in Israel illegally.


The numbers of Palestinian parents entering Israel with children in need of medical care and abandoning them at Erez Crossing are on the rise, COGAT warns.

(full article online)

Palestinians abandon children at Erez crossing - COGAT warns

 

[Sixties Fan]

Female Journalists Beaten by Palestinian Authority Forces. World is Silent

 

[Sixties Fan]

Conclusion from the report:
"This report demonstrates that Fatah's Facebook page is repeatedly in violation of Facebook standards and that there can be no justification for Facebook to allow its continued operation."

PMW's fundamental finding is that Fatah actively uses Facebook to glorify murderers, both past and contemporary, and to encourage violence. Fatah is in clear violation of Facebook's Community Standards, which prohibit use of its platform by those involved in "terrorist activity" or for "praise for individuals involved in these activities."

Palestinian terror can be divided into three categories by periods: Pre-Oslo Terror, Post-Oslo Terror, and Contemporary Terror. Fatah uses Facebook to glorify terrorists and attacks from all of these periods.

Pre-Oslo Terror includes the Munich Olympics massacre of 11 Israeli athletes in 1972 and the Coastal Road massacre of 12 Israeli children and 25 adults in 1978. Both of these attacks as well as other murderous attacks and terrorists from this period were glorified by Fatah on Facebook in 2018.

Post-Oslo Terror includes the hundreds of suicide bombings, shootings, and stabbings which have murdered more than 1,600 Israelis [mfa.gov.il] since the Oslo peace accords were signed between Israel and the PLO in 1993. Terrorists such as Ahmed Yassin, founder of Hamas; Nasser Awais, one of the founders of Fatah's terror wing the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, were responsible for hundreds of murders in the post-Oslo period, especially during the PA's terror campaign, the second intifada (2000-2005). Both these terror leaders and many other terrorists from that period were glorified by Fatah on Facebook in 2018.

Contemporary Terror includes attacks by Palestinian terrorists that continue today. For example the murder of two young Israelis, Kim Levengrond-Yehezkel, 29, mother of a 15-month-old, and Ziv Hajbi, 35, father of three, who were shot and killed by their Palestinian co-worker. They were murdered in 2018 and their murderer, along with others who killed Israelis that year, were glorified by Fatah on Facebook in 2018.

(full article online)

PMW Report on Fatah's Facebook in 2018: PMW called on FB to close terror supporting account - PMW Bulletins