"You didn't get there on your own"

[ConzHateUSA]

ignore me, right

you live to read my posts LOL

 

[Cecilie1200]

There are two thoughts in that sentence. That'll blow most conservative minds. A thing can only be one thing or another. And the one thing or another come from a very small subset of the spectrum of possibilities out there.

So then, how much does a whiner like you owe to the government for your success? You use the infrastructure to, although I can guarantee you pay a hell of a lot less for it.

I received a public education as I assume most people on here have. I have two college degrees and even though I received no scholarship, colleges are subsidized by the government. I deal with high tech stuff that was largely developed at universities and national laboratories that are funded by the government. So I can admit that I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing without government assistance. But unless you run a low tech sweatshop, neither can you.

I sincerely doubt you have any clue WHO developed the stuff you use, or who paid for it. Your idea that the government is responsible for most of the funding for all universities is just laughable.

I used to work at the University of Arizona, which is a well-respected research university as well as being an educational institution. I can tell you, from my position in the nuts-and-bolts level of administration in several departments that where the funding comes from depends largely on which department you're in. "Womyn's Studies", African-American Studies, that sort of thing? Whatever "research" they're doing is funded by government grants. But, as an example of the direct opposite, one professor I worked for in the chemistry department was working on developing a tanning pill. His research was funded entirely by private pharmaceutical interests, who stood to make a fortune if and when he succeeded. As another example, the professor I worked for in Consumer Studies conducted consumer research surveys which were entirely funded by the companies and industries who wanted to use the data to refine their marketing strategies.

Generally speaking, any research that stands a good possibility of being profitable is getting only a small proportion of its money - if any - from the government. The majority is coming from the private industries who actually stand to profit. The government may have come up with the initial germ of an idea for the Internet, but it was the private sector that really ran with it and made it what it is today.

 

[Lakhota]

Does President Obama Think You Didn’t Build Your Business? No.

By Benjy Sarlin

Here’s the full passage:

“If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for president — because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.”​

More: Does President Obama Think You Didn’t Build Your Business? No. | TPM2012

 

[regent]

If I had a dime for every time a poster uses the word communism on these boards I would put those millions into a saving account in the Cayman Islands. If I had to pay a dime for every poster that I felt knew what communism meant I would still have my millions. It's understandable, schools probably steered clear of the entire topic, why make the five O'clock news trying to teach a course in comparative economic systesms? It seems to mean all sorts of things to posters, but what? I have met people from the USSR and they didn't seem to know what Marx was talking about, they only knew and believed that which USSR practiced was communism. It's usage today seems to have boiled down to, it's what Democrats do, and has no relationship to what Karl Marx advocated.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Considering that you, and I, and every other resident of the United States gets EXACTLY the same "help" as small business owners, but the rest of us do NOT have successful businesses, I'd say every damned one of them made the difference between them and us entirely on their own.

This whole "You live in the United States, so your success is owed to everyone else in the United States for the good fortune of living here" line of crap is cutting zero ice with anyone who isn't a freeloading sack of dung. I will be grateful to my nation and my community for the OPPORTUNITY to be successful that it affords me (and everyone else). I refuse to be grateful to them for what I did with that opportunity.

This is an informative post, this person has absolutely no idea what they are talking about, has absolutely no historical context nor does he or she realize just how completely absurd this is, especially this comment

Considering that you, and I, and every other resident of the United States gets EXACTLY the same "help" as small business owners,

Liberals, look at that...I know, I know, I hear you screaming, I hear you trying to scream out an education for this person, but they cant hear it...

I think this proves that they cannot be taught, well they can, there is no reason they cant, but they refuse to, their bigotry is simply way too valuable to them

Speaking of informative posts, I'm sure yours are giving an eye-opening education to the Independents who will decide this election.

Please keep it up and let the whole world know just what Liberals really are when you peel back their skin.

 

[Listening]

Does President Obama Think You Didn’t Build Your Business? No.

By Benjy Sarlin

Here’s the full passage:

“If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for president — because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.”​

More: Does President Obama Think You Didn’t Build Your Business? No. | TPM2012

And if you want to be on your own...we will penalize you for it.

We don't rise or fall on all issues.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous fallacies of Obama.....

 

[Rocko]

I don't understand why the OP thinks this is a new tactic from the president. He uses it all the time. It's called class warefare.

 

[Lakhota]

Does President Obama Think You Didn’t Build Your Business? No.

By Benjy Sarlin

Here’s the full passage:

“If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for president — because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.”​

More: Does President Obama Think You Didn’t Build Your Business? No. | TPM2012

And if you want to be on your own...we will penalize you for it.

We don't rise or fall on all issues.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous fallacies of Obama.....

Damn, you must really be retarded. Try this: Buy a large section of raw land and build your own business - including all infrastructure. Build and pay for your own defense, transportation (roads/highways/ports/shipping), education, research & development, energy, police, courts, etc. without help from anyone else - including the government.

There is much more, but surely you get the drift by now. Good luck...

 

[Stephanie]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM9sbQf9MQ4]He Doesn't Get It - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Moonglow]

More: Does President Obama Think You Didn’t Build Your Business? No. | TPM2012

And if you want to be on your own...we will penalize you for it.

We don't rise or fall on all issues.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous fallacies of Obama.....

Damn, you must really be retarded. Try this: Buy a large section of raw land and build your own business - including all infrastructure. Build and pay for your own defense, transportation (roads/highways/ports/shipping), education, research & development, energy, police, courts, etc. without help from anyone else - including the government.

There is much more, but surely you get the drift by now. Good luck...

They never will. They just can't see where both govt and business can be good for each other. The interstate sytem was built for trucks to move products more efficeintly than having to stop in every town and go where the road led instead of a direct route.

 

[P@triot]

If I had a dime for every time a poster uses the word communism on these boards I would put those millions into a saving account in the Cayman Islands. If I had to pay a dime for every poster that I felt knew what communism meant I would still have my millions. It's understandable, schools probably steered clear of the entire topic, why make the five O'clock news trying to teach a course in comparative economic systesms? It seems to mean all sorts of things to posters, but what? I have met people from the USSR and they didn't seem to know what Marx was talking about, they only knew and believed that which USSR practiced was communism. It's usage today seems to have boiled down to, it's what Democrats do, and has no relationship to what Karl Marx advocated.

Well, the fact that you just referred to it as an "economic system" is a clear indication that you too do not know what it means.

The first thing people don't understand is that there are economic systems (ie Capitalism, Socialism, etc.) and political systems (ie Republics, Dictatorships, etc.).

Communism is neither - it is a blanket term the US leaders started using in the early 1900's to describe nations that were politically a dictatorship and economically Marxists/Socialists. You can be a Republic or Democracy that votes for voluntary Socialism economically. That is NOT Communism. But when you are FORCED by a dictator (or small faction of power) into Marxism or Socialism, that is Communism.

And that is why Communism is the proper term to describe today's liberal. Because they want to FORCE the rest of America into their Marxist/Socialist ideology. Today's liberal is so radical, they are Communism in it's purest form.

 

[Cecilie1200]

PROVIDED????????????

Like the entrepeneur didn't pay for those government services?

I don't pay for those services?

You don't pay for those services?

The government just "provides" those services out of the "goodness" of their bureacratic little hearts?

By your own non-logic I now demand you hand your pay checks over because you couldn't have made that check without all of us.

It's makes about as much sense.

Ah so..now you are saying we live in a collective society.

Interesting.

This is what liberals do when they are losing. Claim you said something NOT IN EVIDENCE.

When you can prove that claim, let me know.

YOU are the ones claiming we are living a collectivist society.

I'm saying we all pay taxes. But you libs make it sound as if everyone else pays taxes and the small business owner does not!

How can you libs claim, they aren't paying their "faire share" when 70% of the taxes in this country come from those making $250K and UP!

But 48% of this country pays no federal taxes whatsoever and I don't see a demand from you libs that THEY PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE (which obviously they are not, by YOUR own non-logic)

They've done a lot more than "make it sound like" business owners don't pay taxes. Several of them have posted right here on this thread, STATING that businesses "profit from things they didn't pay for".

 

[Cecilie1200]

Fact is every person could benefit from infrastructure as much as a successful businessman.

So that one person does and others don't is no cause for that person to pay more than his share now is it?

And I've already shown you multiple times that businesses already pay more for "society" than the average American.

The topic of the thread is "You did not get there on your own"

Nobody has questioned that businesses pay taxes as they should. Nobody questions that businesses pay more taxes than the average Joe Taxpayer. They also benefit more from what those taxes provide

O hai. Fox News truncated the President's remarks and then went screaming apeshit based on their misquotation instead of what he actually said? I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you.

Here's the full context *probably AGAIN* of what he ACTUALLY said.

We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently…We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more …


There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for president – because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.”

Gee. It sounds so much more logical (and actually like the President) when you say it THAT WAY.

You know. The way he ACTUALLY SAID IT.

I'm sure YOU think it sounds wonderful now matter how it's quoted, because Obama said it, and because you're a leftist retard.

Unfortunately for your little plan, your allegedly "ignored" context makes it sound no better whatsoever to anyone who's ever accomplished a damned thing in life besides cash a check.

It still says, "You need to 'give back' more, because you're not contributing enough to compensate for all the effort everyone else put into your lucky break."

 

[Moonglow]

The topic of the thread is "You did not get there on your own"

Nobody has questioned that businesses pay taxes as they should. Nobody questions that businesses pay more taxes than the average Joe Taxpayer. They also benefit more from what those taxes provide

O hai. Fox News truncated the President's remarks and then went screaming apeshit based on their misquotation instead of what he actually said? I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you.

Here's the full context *probably AGAIN* of what he ACTUALLY said.

We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently…We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more …


There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for president – because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.”

Gee. It sounds so much more logical (and actually like the President) when you say it THAT WAY.

You know. The way he ACTUALLY SAID IT.

I'm sure YOU think it sounds wonderful now matter how it's quoted, because Obama said it, and because you're a leftist retard.

Unfortunately for your little plan, your allegedly "ignored" context makes it sound no better whatsoever to anyone who's ever accomplished a damned thing in life besides cash a check.

It still says, "You need to 'give back' more, because you're not contributing enough to compensate for all the effort everyone else put into your lucky break."

No it doesn't. He only stated a fact about how humans got to where they are. Did u educate yourself all through your early life, feed urself when you were a toddler, did you never have a mentor that gave you strength and courage to take chances in business?
No man is an island, remember that?
What does that mean?
I believe it is the same premise as Obama's not by yourself statement.

 

[Stephanie]

O hai. Fox News truncated the President's remarks and then went screaming apeshit based on their misquotation instead of what he actually said? I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you.

Here's the full context *probably AGAIN* of what he ACTUALLY said.



Gee. It sounds so much more logical (and actually like the President) when you say it THAT WAY.

You know. The way he ACTUALLY SAID IT.

I'm sure YOU think it sounds wonderful now matter how it's quoted, because Obama said it, and because you're a leftist retard.

Unfortunately for your little plan, your allegedly "ignored" context makes it sound no better whatsoever to anyone who's ever accomplished a damned thing in life besides cash a check.

It still says, "You need to 'give back' more, because you're not contributing enough to compensate for all the effort everyone else put into your lucky break."

No it doesn't. He only stated a fact about how humans got to where they are. Did u educate yourself all through your early life, feed urself when you were a toddler, did you never have a mentor that gave you strength and courage to take chances in business?
No man is an island, remember that?
What does that mean?
I believe it is the same premise as Obama's not by yourself statement.

omg..that was spin

 

[Moonglow]

The topic of the thread is "You did not get there on your own"

Nobody has questioned that businesses pay taxes as they should. Nobody questions that businesses pay more taxes than the average Joe Taxpayer. They also benefit more from what those taxes provide

O hai. Fox News truncated the President's remarks and then went screaming apeshit based on their misquotation instead of what he actually said? I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you.

Here's the full context *probably AGAIN* of what he ACTUALLY said.

We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently…We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more …


There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for president – because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.”

Gee. It sounds so much more logical (and actually like the President) when you say it THAT WAY.

You know. The way he ACTUALLY SAID IT.

I'm sure YOU think it sounds wonderful now matter how it's quoted, because Obama said it, and because you're a leftist retard.

Unfortunately for your little plan, your allegedly "ignored" context makes it sound no better whatsoever to anyone who's ever accomplished a damned thing in life besides cash a check.

It still says, "You need to 'give back' more, because you're not contributing enough to compensate for all the effort everyone else put into your lucky break."

is that the only way you know how to converse with people?

 

[Listening]

More: Does President Obama Think You Didn’t Build Your Business? No. | TPM2012

And if you want to be on your own...we will penalize you for it.

We don't rise or fall on all issues.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous fallacies of Obama.....

Damn, you must really be retarded. Try this: Buy a large section of raw land and build your own business - including all infrastructure. Build and pay for your own defense, transportation (roads/highways/ports/shipping), education, research & development, energy, police, courts, etc. without help from anyone else - including the government.

There is much more, but surely you get the drift by now. Good luck...

I know it is tough having your head up David Axelrod's ass, but try to pay attention.

The U.S. bound together for protection. Secure the borders.

After that, they said to the states....you go where you will...there only a few things you can't (according a well known document called the U.S. Constitution).

States then provided a great deal of the infrastructure you mentioned.

If you assholes realized that leaving it at the state level would be fine with conservatives....you might not spend so much time trying to read the writing on each others underwear while hiding under each others skirts.

Tell Obama to GTFO of states business (like health care which is not called out in the constitution) and you'll find you have a great many friends in conservatives.

Otherwise, go ask for a refund for your education tax dollars...you were obviously screwed.

 

[P@triot]

More: Does President Obama Think You Didn’t Build Your Business? No. | TPM2012

And if you want to be on your own...we will penalize you for it.

We don't rise or fall on all issues.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous fallacies of Obama.....

Damn, you must really be retarded. Try this: Buy a large section of raw land and build your own business - including all infrastructure. Build and pay for your own defense, transportation (roads/highways/ports/shipping), education, research & development, energy, police, courts, etc. without help from anyone else - including the government.

There is much more, but surely you get the drift by now. Good luck...

Damn, you REALLY ARE RETARDED (by the way - thanks again for showing the ugly side of the liberal, taking a very real mental handicap and turning it into a negative insult).

Defense - well stupid, it doesn't cost that much to own a gun. And it certainly isn't that hard to hire private security. But here's the most important part - defense is the #1 priority of the federal government in the US Constitution. NOBODY is complaining about taxes for defense. In fact, it's YOUR idiot Marxist president who is looking to gut our defense. EPIC FAIL in your "argument".

Transportation - Hey stupid, the majority of us pay for our own transportation every day. I've NEVER taken a bus or a train. I own a car. I've rented a car. And I've paid PRIVATE (ie not government) companies for a limo and for a taxi. EPIC FAIL in your "argument".

Roads/Highways/etc. - Those are STATE and LOCAL issue stupid. The federal government is NOT constitutionally authorized to build roads in Idaho. But liberals are too fucking stupid to understand the difference between FEDERAL and LOCAL government. EPIC FAIL in your "argument".

Education - Another STATE and LOCAL issue stupid! The federal government is NOT constitutionally authorized to over see education. But liberals are too fucking stupid to understand the difference between FEDERAL and LOCAL government. EPIC FAIL in your "argument".

Research & Development - Is a PRIVATE sector issue you fucking moron! Bill Gates didn't need the US government for R&D on Windows. Steve Jobs didn't need the US government for R&D on the iPad, iPhone, or iPod. And Sony didn't need the US government for R&D on the Playstation. Only Communists think the government should take money from tax payers and spend it on R&D that is not directly related to their constitutional responsibilities (like defense, stupid). So yes, just like the private companies I just listed did, we could (and SHOULD) pay for own R&D. EPIC FAIL in your "argument".

Energy - Is a PRIVATE sector issue you fucking moron!!! Is the federal government mining for natural gas? Is the federal government mining for coal? Is the federal government drilling for oil? Damn are you an IDIOT!!! EPIC FAIL in your "argument".

Police - Once again, a STATE and LOCAL issue you fucking moron. The federal government does not pay for your local police, so this argument does not apply. Barack Obama is president of the US, not mayor of your local city. But that aside, as we already discovered in my first post, it's not that difficult to purchase firearms and/or pay for private security. So yes, anyone who is not an idiot asshole liberal could provide this for themselves. EPIC FAIL in your "argument".

Courts - Except for the federal courts, once again a STATE and LOCAL issue. EPIC FAIL in your "argument".

It is fucking amazing how helpless you asshole liberals are. You believe you can't survive 15 fucking minutes if government isn't there to coddle you and provide for you. You people must walk around your government provided apartments wearing diapers and bonets with a binkie in your mouths. I swear to God, you're the most helpless little bitches in world history. You think NOTHING is possible without goverment doing it for you. Fucking lazy and helpless....

 

[Murf76]

More: Does President Obama Think You Didn’t Build Your Business? No. | TPM2012

And if you want to be on your own...we will penalize you for it.

We don't rise or fall on all issues.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous fallacies of Obama.....

Damn, you must really be retarded. Try this: Buy a large section of raw land and build your own business - including all infrastructure. Build and pay for your own defense, transportation (roads/highways/ports/shipping), education, research & development, energy, police, courts, etc. without help from anyone else - including the government.

There is much more, but surely you get the drift by now. Good luck...

Well, that's pretty much what our pioneering forebears did. In the game of 'which came first', clearly Commerce must happen before Revenue can be collected.

Today, of course, there's alot more to it. But when we have nearly HALF this nation's citizens collecting some form of government payment and not paying income tax to boot... there's no "we did it together" involved. Obama infers that these businesses owe something for their success. But the fact of the matter is... they're the ones who are paying for that infrastructure... and MORE than their "fair share" too.

 

[candycorn]

All of us are warmed by the fires stoked by others. No exceptions.