Americans are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything

[Billo_Really]

The problem is that both sides dig-in and defend their version of fake-news. The version that supports their world view. How do you fix that?

Make home school illegal. Dumbass parents, make dumbass children. You can't teach, what you don't have. We have an entire country of un-educated, TV watching citizens, who seem to be getting the majority of information, from a minimal amount of sources and all of it, is electronic. When your interaction with others, consists mainly of communicating through electronic media, bit by bit, the human element just fades away.

Some people think that admitting their wrong is tantamount to death. I think it's just "coarse correction", like the inertial guidance system on a plane. If you ever tracked a planes coarse all the way to its destination, you would see that it is constantly off coarse, but eventually, it arrives at its goal. So quite similarly, when a person takes a certain position, call it "plan A" and runs with that until someone else comes forth with new evidence that shows "plan A" is wrong, then you go to "plan B". It's not that big of a deal.

I will say there are very few people at this website who have publically admitted they were wrong. I have done so several times and I'm still alive. Unfortunately for some, they have so much invested in a certain position, it's become their new best friend.

 

[mudwhistle]

Writer Tom Nichols' efforts here will almost certainly be wasted, but it sure would be nice if this piece got around a bit:

Americans are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything

From the piece, my bold:

This isn't just human nature, but the result of a narcissism that took root in American society after the 1960s and has been growing ever since. Surrounded by affluence, enabled by the internet, and empowered by an educational system that prizes self-esteem over achievement, Americans have become more opinionated even as they have become less informed, and are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything.

Our republic thrives on open debate and the fair consideration of evidence. When our ability to maintain those democratic habits collapses, our system of government, along with our well-being as a people and a nation, will be in danger. There are a few steps we can take, including treating cable and the internet as we would treat our diet: by exercising portion control, healthy choices, and a varied mixture. We should especially make an effort to consider other sources that challenge us.

More important, we need to start listening to each other with a greater assumption of good will. Cable news has become a gladiatorial exercise, but that doesn’t mean each of us must approach conversation as a fight to the finish.

We must come out from behind our keyboards and smartphones and televisions and engage each other as citizens, rather than opponents. In an age of binary, win-at-all-costs politics, this is a tall order. But citizens need to be better examples to our political and media leaders than they’ve been to us.

There is still time to reconsider the path we’ve set upon in the past few decades, but one thing should be clear: We cannot continue this way much longer and survive as a vibrant democracy.
.

I know my own bias may come into play here, but to me most of the "my way or the highway" mentality is firmly fixed on the left these days. On the right, at least among federalists and "small l" libertarians the overwhelming desire is to just be left the hell alone on many policies and positions. When North Carolina passed the dreaded "Bathroom Bill" the people there did not try to impose said law on places like New York or California, they just wanted it in their own State.

You also don't see people on the Right trying to shut down speeches by people on the left, via either violence or the "heckler's veto". That is a purely left wing tactic currently.

Some, including myself, on the Right are probably much more shrill and mean than we used to be, but it is because we see core fundamentals of this country under attack. Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, RKBA, Federalism in general.

If my side wins, people in States where they want Single payer, bathroom neutrality, welfare states, etc can still get what they want due to the miracle of federalism. If their side wins, we all have to live like they want us to live.

Certainly the Left has this fixation on shutting down opposing speech, I can't argue with that. It flies directly against what (I think) is our most important right, and they don't care. A bad, bad situation.

But, at the same time, look at his exchange:

The problem is that both sides dig-in and defend their version of fake-news. The version that supports their world view. How do you fix that?

Eliminate the opposition.

That's simply not going to happen. Maybe look for a Plan B..

Plan A. Solve the problem. Plan B. Learn to live with the problem. Life doesn't have to be complicated...

While the two "sides" do share many behaviors, it seems like the Right thinks it's going to somehow "win" this, and "beat" the other side. And that approach is certainly a part of what the article in the OP discusses.
.

I take the words/actions of people on a message board with a grain of salt. I am actually a far more reasonable person than I present on this board. This board is sometimes an outlet for me to let loose and let my anger out a bit. You then have to add in the sock/trolls who "play a persona on TV" and are not actually what they appear to be.

I usually look past words and concentrate on actions, and right now the Left has the monopoly on "fuck you" actions.

It always amazes me how the pendulum swings back and forth sometimes when it comes to political views and temperament. We are only a few decades out from the "Moral Majority" idiots and their attempts to stifle things they found "indecent".

The Moral Majority is just another example of people who want to force other's to follow their rules and beliefs. The strange thing is how the left that have no principles or values would hook up with folks (Muslims) that make the Moral Majority look like Hollywood liberals.

 

[mudwhistle]

I think it comes back to education and what we learn as we grow up.
People lack the necessary skills to sift information and that leads to an acceptance of persuasively written propaganda.
Its about knowing when you are being played. It irritates me.
The best selling paper in the UK is the Sun. For decades it has spread social and political shite and paid up fortunes to its victims.
But it is still the best selling paper in the UK and all politicians kiss Murdochs ring in order to get the Suns blessing.
Until we can improve our education system and get some critical thinking in there we will not improve.

Typical snobbish liberal response.
Democrats cannot be honest to their own base because their base is too stupid to understand the complexities I suppose.
Obamacare was passed filled with "Tortured-Language" with the expressed intent to deny the truth and mislead the public is beyond dispute. Your statement proves that you agree that the public is too stupid to understand the truth even when it's presented to them.
Democrats haven't nominated an honest politician in our lifetime and their only defense is "They all do it", tells us everything we need to know.
It's not because they're too stupid and can't be trusted to make their own decisions. The problem is when you force your values down someone else's throat you tend to piss people off. So you lie to them and try to change their values and remove their principles.

This is how concentration camps became a reality in Germany. They wouldn't be possible without the acceptance of the public.

I didn't see anything that snobbish or liberal in Tommy Tainant's post.

He made a valid point, IMO.

Critical thinking is the key to unlock the brainwashed younger generation's mind.

I don't agree with 90% of what he posts, but in that regard I agree with him.

If you believe that "people" lack the necessary skills to sift information then you feel that the government is the solution to everything.
This is a snobbish attitude.
Government tends to obstruct more than facilitate progress.

 

[Billo_Really]

I didn't see anything that snobbish or liberal in Tommy Tainant's post.

He made a valid point, IMO.

Critical thinking is the key to unlock the brainwashed younger generation's mind.

I don't agree with 90% of what he posts, but in that regard I agree with him.

Admit you were wrong. Say it! Say you were wrong. Utter those words...I WAS WRONG.

We'll fill in what you were wrong about later...

 

[brummelben]

Writer Tom Nichols' efforts here will almost certainly be wasted, but it sure would be nice if this piece got around a bit:

Americans are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything

From the piece, my bold:

This isn't just human nature, but the result of a narcissism that took root in American society after the 1960s and has been growing ever since. Surrounded by affluence, enabled by the internet, and empowered by an educational system that prizes self-esteem over achievement, Americans have become more opinionated even as they have become less informed, and are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything.

Our republic thrives on open debate and the fair consideration of evidence. When our ability to maintain those democratic habits collapses, our system of government, along with our well-being as a people and a nation, will be in danger. There are a few steps we can take, including treating cable and the internet as we would treat our diet: by exercising portion control, healthy choices, and a varied mixture. We should especially make an effort to consider other sources that challenge us.

More important, we need to start listening to each other with a greater assumption of good will. Cable news has become a gladiatorial exercise, but that doesn’t mean each of us must approach conversation as a fight to the finish.

We must come out from behind our keyboards and smartphones and televisions and engage each other as citizens, rather than opponents. In an age of binary, win-at-all-costs politics, this is a tall order. But citizens need to be better examples to our political and media leaders than they’ve been to us.

There is still time to reconsider the path we’ve set upon in the past few decades, but one thing should be clear: We cannot continue this way much longer and survive as a vibrant democracy.
.

I know my own bias may come into play here, but to me most of the "my way or the highway" mentality is firmly fixed on the left these days. On the right, at least among federalists and "small l" libertarians the overwhelming desire is to just be left the hell alone on many policies and positions. When North Carolina passed the dreaded "Bathroom Bill" the people there did not try to impose said law on places like New York or California, they just wanted it in their own State.

You also don't see people on the Right trying to shut down speeches by people on the left, via either violence or the "heckler's veto". That is a purely left wing tactic currently.

Some, including myself, on the Right are probably much more shrill and mean than we used to be, but it is because we see core fundamentals of this country under attack. Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, RKBA, Federalism in general.

If my side wins, people in States where they want Single payer, bathroom neutrality, welfare states, etc can still get what they want due to the miracle of federalism. If their side wins, we all have to live like they want us to live.

Certainly the Left has this fixation on shutting down opposing speech, I can't argue with that. It flies directly against what (I think) is our most important right, and they don't care. A bad, bad situation.

But, at the same time, look at his exchange:

Eliminate the opposition.

That's simply not going to happen. Maybe look for a Plan B..

Plan A. Solve the problem. Plan B. Learn to live with the problem. Life doesn't have to be complicated...

While the two "sides" do share many behaviors, it seems like the Right thinks it's going to somehow "win" this, and "beat" the other side. And that approach is certainly a part of what the article in the OP discusses.
.

I take the words/actions of people on a message board with a grain of salt. I am actually a far more reasonable person than I present on this board. This board is sometimes an outlet for me to let loose and let my anger out a bit. You then have to add in the sock/trolls who "play a persona on TV" and are not actually what they appear to be.

I usually look past words and concentrate on actions, and right now the Left has the monopoly on "fuck you" actions.

It always amazes me how the pendulum swings back and forth sometimes when it comes to political views and temperament. We are only a few decades out from the "Moral Majority" idiots and their attempts to stifle things they found "indecent".

The Moral Majority is just another example of people who want to force other's to follow their rules and beliefs. The strange thing is how the left that have no principles or values would hook up with folks (Muslims) that make the Moral Majority look like Hollywood liberals.

Your kind is really good at blaming the actions of a few, a tiny minority, on an entire people, be they Muslim, black yellow or red.

 

[Billo_Really]

Do you feel that this climate is better and/or more constructive than one in which communication is more open and cooperative?
.

I believe you created a thread that is a little too close to home for some. I think its a great thread and a good topic to discuss. I may go as far to say, this thread may have some medicinal qualities to it.

 

[Marion Morrison]

The problem is that both sides dig-in and defend their version of fake-news. The version that supports their world view. How do you fix that?

Make home school illegal. Dumbass parents, make dumbass children. You can't teach, what you don't have. We have an entire country of un-educated, TV watching citizens, who seem to be getting the majority of information, from a minimal amount of sources and all of it, is electronic. When your interaction with others, consists mainly of communicating through electronic media, bit by bit, the human element just fades away.

Some people think that admitting their wrong is tantamount to death. I think it's just "coarse correction", like the inertial guidance system on a plane. If you ever tracked a planes coarse all the way to its destination, you would see that it is constantly off coarse, but eventually, it arrives at its goal. So quite similarly, when a person takes a certain position, call it "plan A" and runs with that until someone else comes forth with new evidence that shows "plan A" is wrong, then you go to "plan B". It's not that big of a deal.

I will say there are very few people at this website who have publically admitted they were wrong. I have done so several times and I'm still alive. Unfortunately for some, they have so much invested in a certain position, it's become their new best friend.

What did English ever do to you? With spelling like that, you're the last person on earth who should be uttering "dumbass".

their wrong
coarse correction",
coarse
off coarse
publically

English, guy! Do you speak it?!

 

[Billo_Really]

The Moral Majority is just another example of people who want to force other's to follow their rules and beliefs. The strange thing is how the left that have no principles or values would hook up with folks (Muslims) that make the Moral Majority look like Hollywood liberals.

When was the last time you were wrong about something?

 

[Billo_Really]

What did English ever do to you? With spelling like that, you're the last person on earth who should be uttering "dumbass".

That was harsh. I always said nice things about you.

 

[Marion Morrison]

What did English ever do to you? With spelling like that, you're the last person on earth who should be uttering "dumbass".

That was harsh. I always said nice things about you.

All I have to say is that it appears language is not your strong suit. There's nothing wrong with that, per se.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I didn't see anything that snobbish or liberal in Tommy Tainant's post.

He made a valid point, IMO.

Critical thinking is the key to unlock the brainwashed younger generation's mind.

I don't agree with 90% of what he posts, but in that regard I agree with him.

Admit you were wrong. Say it! Say you were wrong. Utter those words...I WAS WRONG.

We'll fill in what you were wrong about later...

 

[Billo_Really]

All I have to say is that it appears language is not your strong suit. There's nothing wrong with that, per se.

Well, you're wrong about that. I always got A's in English. Math was my problem subject. I took algebra one semester and got a 'D'. Then I took it the very next semester and got another 'D'.

Look, all you need to know is that my prose and tome are kick-ass!

 

[Marion Morrison]

I suggest you stick to your fantasies try selling them to somebody less informed.

Back to the OP:

Do you feel that this climate is better and/or more constructive than one in which communication is more open and cooperative?
.

Absolutely not. Just look at JoeB and brummelban's posts, for that matter, look at the way mudwhistle ripped into Tommy Tainant for no good reason whatsoever, except that Tommy leans left. Tommy made a very valid point in that post.

 

[Mac1958]

I suggest you stick to your fantasies try selling them to somebody less informed.

Back to the OP: Do you feel that this climate is better and/or more constructive than one in which communication is more open and cooperative?.

Absolutely not. Just look at JoeB and brummelban's posts, for that matter, look at the way mudwhistle ripped into Tommy Tainant for no good reason whatsoever except that Tommy leans left. Tommy made a very valid point in that post.

This is why I'm convinced that a critical piece of this problem is that we now put "beating" the other "side" above looking for the best answers to our problems, regardless of where they originate.

Party over country, in other words.
.

 

[Marion Morrison]

I suggest you stick to your fantasies try selling them to somebody less informed.

Back to the OP: Do you feel that this climate is better and/or more constructive than one in which communication is more open and cooperative?.

Absolutely not. Just look at JoeB and brummelban's posts, for that matter, look at the way mudwhistle ripped into Tommy Tainant for no good reason whatsoever except that Tommy leans left. Tommy made a very valid point in that post.

This is why I'm convinced that a critical piece of this problem is that we now put "beating" the other "side" above looking for the best answers to our problems, regardless of where they originate.

Party over country, in other words.
.

Well, right now the left is directly responsible for this denying students the development of critical thinking skills.

It's leftist professors teaching with some other method than the time-tested Socratic one intentionally to make students' minds more "malleable" and resistant to outside views.

That needs to stop like, yesterday.

 

[Mac1958]

I suggest you stick to your fantasies try selling them to somebody less informed.

Back to the OP: Do you feel that this climate is better and/or more constructive than one in which communication is more open and cooperative?.

Absolutely not. Just look at JoeB and brummelban's posts, for that matter, look at the way mudwhistle ripped into Tommy Tainant for no good reason whatsoever except that Tommy leans left. Tommy made a very valid point in that post.

This is why I'm convinced that a critical piece of this problem is that we now put "beating" the other "side" above looking for the best answers to our problems, regardless of where they originate.

Party over country, in other words.
.

Well, right now the left is directly responsible for this denying students the development of critical thinking skills.

It's leftist professors teaching with some other method than the time-tested Socratic one intentionally to make students' minds more "malleable" and resistant to outside views.

Can't argue, and I hate seeing it. Our kids deserve better.
.

 

[Toro]

Writer Tom Nichols' efforts here will almost certainly be wasted, but it sure would be nice if this piece got around a bit:

Americans are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything

From the piece, my bold:

This isn't just human nature, but the result of a narcissism that took root in American society after the 1960s and has been growing ever since. Surrounded by affluence, enabled by the internet, and empowered by an educational system that prizes self-esteem over achievement, Americans have become more opinionated even as they have become less informed, and are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything.

Our republic thrives on open debate and the fair consideration of evidence. When our ability to maintain those democratic habits collapses, our system of government, along with our well-being as a people and a nation, will be in danger. There are a few steps we can take, including treating cable and the internet as we would treat our diet: by exercising portion control, healthy choices, and a varied mixture. We should especially make an effort to consider other sources that challenge us.

More important, we need to start listening to each other with a greater assumption of good will. Cable news has become a gladiatorial exercise, but that doesn’t mean each of us must approach conversation as a fight to the finish.

We must come out from behind our keyboards and smartphones and televisions and engage each other as citizens, rather than opponents. In an age of binary, win-at-all-costs politics, this is a tall order. But citizens need to be better examples to our political and media leaders than they’ve been to us.

There is still time to reconsider the path we’ve set upon in the past few decades, but one thing should be clear: We cannot continue this way much longer and survive as a vibrant democracy.
.

If everyone just listened to me, everything would be fine.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Writer Tom Nichols' efforts here will almost certainly be wasted, but it sure would be nice if this piece got around a bit:

Americans are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything

From the piece, my bold:

This isn't just human nature, but the result of a narcissism that took root in American society after the 1960s and has been growing ever since. Surrounded by affluence, enabled by the internet, and empowered by an educational system that prizes self-esteem over achievement, Americans have become more opinionated even as they have become less informed, and are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything.

Our republic thrives on open debate and the fair consideration of evidence. When our ability to maintain those democratic habits collapses, our system of government, along with our well-being as a people and a nation, will be in danger. There are a few steps we can take, including treating cable and the internet as we would treat our diet: by exercising portion control, healthy choices, and a varied mixture. We should especially make an effort to consider other sources that challenge us.

More important, we need to start listening to each other with a greater assumption of good will. Cable news has become a gladiatorial exercise, but that doesn’t mean each of us must approach conversation as a fight to the finish.

We must come out from behind our keyboards and smartphones and televisions and engage each other as citizens, rather than opponents. In an age of binary, win-at-all-costs politics, this is a tall order. But citizens need to be better examples to our political and media leaders than they’ve been to us.

There is still time to reconsider the path we’ve set upon in the past few decades, but one thing should be clear: We cannot continue this way much longer and survive as a vibrant democracy.
.

If everyone just listened to me, everything would be fine.

Go have a donut, eh?

 

[martybegan]

Writer Tom Nichols' efforts here will almost certainly be wasted, but it sure would be nice if this piece got around a bit:

Americans are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything

From the piece, my bold:

This isn't just human nature, but the result of a narcissism that took root in American society after the 1960s and has been growing ever since. Surrounded by affluence, enabled by the internet, and empowered by an educational system that prizes self-esteem over achievement, Americans have become more opinionated even as they have become less informed, and are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything.

Our republic thrives on open debate and the fair consideration of evidence. When our ability to maintain those democratic habits collapses, our system of government, along with our well-being as a people and a nation, will be in danger. There are a few steps we can take, including treating cable and the internet as we would treat our diet: by exercising portion control, healthy choices, and a varied mixture. We should especially make an effort to consider other sources that challenge us.

More important, we need to start listening to each other with a greater assumption of good will. Cable news has become a gladiatorial exercise, but that doesn’t mean each of us must approach conversation as a fight to the finish.

We must come out from behind our keyboards and smartphones and televisions and engage each other as citizens, rather than opponents. In an age of binary, win-at-all-costs politics, this is a tall order. But citizens need to be better examples to our political and media leaders than they’ve been to us.

There is still time to reconsider the path we’ve set upon in the past few decades, but one thing should be clear: We cannot continue this way much longer and survive as a vibrant democracy.
.

I know my own bias may come into play here, but to me most of the "my way or the highway" mentality is firmly fixed on the left these days. On the right, at least among federalists and "small l" libertarians the overwhelming desire is to just be left the hell alone on many policies and positions. When North Carolina passed the dreaded "Bathroom Bill" the people there did not try to impose said law on places like New York or California, they just wanted it in their own State.

You also don't see people on the Right trying to shut down speeches by people on the left, via either violence or the "heckler's veto". That is a purely left wing tactic currently.

Some, including myself, on the Right are probably much more shrill and mean than we used to be, but it is because we see core fundamentals of this country under attack. Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, RKBA, Federalism in general.

If my side wins, people in States where they want Single payer, bathroom neutrality, welfare states, etc can still get what they want due to the miracle of federalism. If their side wins, we all have to live like they want us to live.

Certainly the Left has this fixation on shutting down opposing speech, I can't argue with that. It flies directly against what (I think) is our most important right, and they don't care. A bad, bad situation.

But, at the same time, look at his exchange:

Eliminate the opposition.

That's simply not going to happen. Maybe look for a Plan B..

Plan A. Solve the problem. Plan B. Learn to live with the problem. Life doesn't have to be complicated...

While the two "sides" do share many behaviors, it seems like the Right thinks it's going to somehow "win" this, and "beat" the other side. And that approach is certainly a part of what the article in the OP discusses.
.

I take the words/actions of people on a message board with a grain of salt. I am actually a far more reasonable person than I present on this board. This board is sometimes an outlet for me to let loose and let my anger out a bit. You then have to add in the sock/trolls who "play a persona on TV" and are not actually what they appear to be.

I usually look past words and concentrate on actions, and right now the Left has the monopoly on "fuck you" actions.

It always amazes me how the pendulum swings back and forth sometimes when it comes to political views and temperament. We are only a few decades out from the "Moral Majority" idiots and their attempts to stifle things they found "indecent".

The Moral Majority is just another example of people who want to force other's to follow their rules and beliefs. The strange thing is how the left that have no principles or values would hook up with folks (Muslims) that make the Moral Majority look like Hollywood liberals.

That is the one connection I still can't get my head around. The only thing I can think of is they truly have an "oppressed metric" and right now Muslims outrank women on the pity parade.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Writer Tom Nichols' efforts here will almost certainly be wasted, but it sure would be nice if this piece got around a bit:

Americans are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything
.

The Explanation is that "libruls" will not accept "alternative facts" ...alternative climate Science etc ..they can't handle the alternative Truth or Truths .....Remember the "Bowling Green"....