Should the poor be required to pay taxes to the IRS?

[Anathema]

Try as you might it is mathematically impossible to make the poor pay for their own government assistance. Isn't that the ultimate aim of a more regressive tax code?

No. The aim is to drive home the point that people should not be getting anything for nothing and that the Government doesn't hand out anything for free.

 

[imawhosure]

Here, let me give these libs an example of WHY their ideas are ridiculous. I have a nice lot at a Yogi Bear campground where I keep my wonderful 5th wheel through the summer so we can visit it and enjoy, before taking it to Florida for the winter.

Within 5 mls of Yogi, there is this young kid who is 14 years old that comes and cuts the lots grass for campers, depending on the size of the lot, 10 to 15 bucks a week. He has 93 lots, lol. He had to hire 2 more kids to help him, purchased 2 more mowers, and already fired 1 kid for poor performance.

Now Occupied, are you trying to tell me a 14 year old kid is smarter than you, lolol! (say it isn't so, heheheheheh) Talked the kids mother a month ago, he makes almost 1200 bucks a week, and he pays his 2 workers MORE than minimum wage. How? Because when he is done with cutting grass, he goes to his 2nd job, which is cutting grass for elder people in his subdivision.

Want to work? There is always a way, and if you are good at it, you can make a fortune! Kid is saving for his OWN college education, and wants to buy a vet. I doubt he will make it, but I won't bet against him.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Without getting it all back via carve outs & loop holes? Should they pay their fair share?

EVERYONE should pay taxes, every single U.S. citizen, no exceptions. But, everyone should pay at the same tax rate. If the tax rate is 15% of income, then everyone should pay 15%.

If you think the working poor could afford that you are dreaming. States are already squeezing them for all they are worth.

you know about California i see....

 

[occupied]

Here, let me give these libs an example of WHY their ideas are ridiculous. I have a nice lot at a Yogi Bear campground where I keep my wonderful 5th wheel through the summer so we can visit it and enjoy, before taking it to Florida for the winter.

Within 5 mls of Yogi, there is this young kid who is 14 years old that comes and cuts the lots grass for campers, depending on the size of the lot, 10 to 15 bucks a week. He has 93 lots, lol. He had to hire 2 more kids to help him, purchased 2 more mowers, and already fired 1 kid for poor performance.

Now Occupied, are you trying to tell me a 14 year old kid is smarter than you, lolol! (say it isn't so, heheheheheh) Talked the kids mother a month ago, he makes almost 1200 bucks a week, and he pays his 2 workers MORE than minimum wage. How? Because when he is done with cutting grass, he goes to his 2nd job, which is cutting grass for elder people in his subdivision.

Want to work? There is always a way, and if you are good at it, you can make a fortune! Kid is saving for his OWN college education, and wants to buy a vet. I doubt he will make it, but I won't bet against him.

One success story is not the whole story, I know a lot of people who have worked hard all their life and still have it rough, there is simply not enough opportunity out there for everyone to be prosperous, not even close, that is a failure of the system, not some personal failing in anyone in particular.

 

[occupied]

Without getting it all back via carve outs & loop holes? Should they pay their fair share?

EVERYONE should pay taxes, every single U.S. citizen, no exceptions. But, everyone should pay at the same tax rate. If the tax rate is 15% of income, then everyone should pay 15%.

If you think the working poor could afford that you are dreaming. States are already squeezing them for all they are worth.

you know about California i see....

Actually California rates better than most states in how regressive their taxes are. They have an economy that is bigger than many countries and still has a lot of opportunity. The worst state I have personally experienced is Alabama, the reddest of the red, that taxes everything they can out of some of the poorest people in America.

 

[Harry Dresden]

"Conservative" ≠ "sociopath" but conservatism damned sure appeals to you freaks.

Life is not worth anything unless its lived properly. Never has been. I see no point in wasting money on those who do not live their life properly.

and of course someone like you will be the one saying who is living their lives properly....right?....

 

[candycorn]

Your problem is not with the poor but the fact that their employers don't pay them enough to not qualify for the EITC.

Why should those corporations be enjoying taxpayer subsidized workers?

Wrong thread fucktard. Take your fair wage nonsense to the appropriate nonsensical fair wage thread. This thread is about basic taxation

Where in your OP did you specifically exclude the amount that is subject to taxation?

And why exclude pragmatic solutions to the question posed in your OP unless you are not serious about actually finding solutions. In which case this thread is nothing but flame bait against the poor and doesn't belong in this forum.

In the title. Can you read?

Nothing in the title refers to the amount subject to taxation.

It refers to the poor & taxes. Period. Take your wage agenda to the appropriate thread or create one of your own. This thread is about the tax system.

Derp along now

You and Foxfyre seem to spend 1/2 your time officiating your own threads rather than debating what was brought up.

 

[SAYIT]

One more time:

I am one of the "lucky" ones. Started businesses that were profitable enough to sell for good money and retired at 59 but this isn't about me.

A long-time female friend, a single-mom with some college, raised 2 terrific kids with minimal financial support from dad and none at all from the gov't. She always made enough, $35,000 - $45,000/yr, to provide the little extras (tutors, hockey, dance) to let her kids know they are loved. She maintained her income by working o-time or a 2nd job yet found time to help with homework, cook, clean, kiddie transport, workout and have a life. She did make personal sacrifices (such as sleep) but never complained. Yeah, I don't know how she did it either but as a reward for taking RESPONSIBILITY for her life's choices, our gov't regularly took money out of her paychecks to give to the "less fortunate" ... some who may have truly needed help but many who willfully eschewed self-reliance and CHOSE entitlement. You know ... people who never put out the effort she did and does without complaint. In a word, PUSSIES.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Here, let me give these libs an example of WHY their ideas are ridiculous. I have a nice lot at a Yogi Bear campground where I keep my wonderful 5th wheel through the summer so we can visit it and enjoy, before taking it to Florida for the winter.

Within 5 mls of Yogi, there is this young kid who is 14 years old that comes and cuts the lots grass for campers, depending on the size of the lot, 10 to 15 bucks a week. He has 93 lots, lol. He had to hire 2 more kids to help him, purchased 2 more mowers, and already fired 1 kid for poor performance.

Now Occupied, are you trying to tell me a 14 year old kid is smarter than you, lolol! (say it isn't so, heheheheheh) Talked the kids mother a month ago, he makes almost 1200 bucks a week, and he pays his 2 workers MORE than minimum wage. How? Because when he is done with cutting grass, he goes to his 2nd job, which is cutting grass for elder people in his subdivision.

Want to work? There is always a way, and if you are good at it, you can make a fortune! Kid is saving for his OWN college education, and wants to buy a vet. I doubt he will make it, but I won't bet against him.

One success story is not the whole story, I know a lot of people who have worked hard all their life and still have it rough, there is simply not enough opportunity out there for everyone to be prosperous, not even close, that is a failure of the system, not some personal failing in anyone in particular.

Utter Bull. There is endless opportunities out there for those that wish to try them. There is no such thing as limited opportunity in the United States. That's why we have all those people trying to sneak into this great country.

 

[SAYIT]

Here, let me give these libs an example of WHY their ideas are ridiculous. I have a nice lot at a Yogi Bear campground where I keep my wonderful 5th wheel through the summer so we can visit it and enjoy, before taking it to Florida for the winter.

Within 5 mls of Yogi, there is this young kid who is 14 years old that comes and cuts the lots grass for campers, depending on the size of the lot, 10 to 15 bucks a week. He has 93 lots, lol. He had to hire 2 more kids to help him, purchased 2 more mowers, and already fired 1 kid for poor performance.

Now Occupied, are you trying to tell me a 14 year old kid is smarter than you, lolol! (say it isn't so, heheheheheh) Talked the kids mother a month ago, he makes almost 1200 bucks a week, and he pays his 2 workers MORE than minimum wage. How? Because when he is done with cutting grass, he goes to his 2nd job, which is cutting grass for elder people in his subdivision.

Want to work? There is always a way, and if you are good at it, you can make a fortune! Kid is saving for his OWN college education, and wants to buy a vet. I doubt he will make it, but I won't bet against him.

One success story is not the whole story, I know a lot of people who have worked hard all their life and still have it rough, there is simply not enough opportunity out there for everyone to be prosperous, not even close, that is a failure of the system, not some personal failing in anyone in particular.

Life is not a video game in mommy's basement. You will never know about opportunity in America until you really try.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

One more time:

I am one of the "lucky" ones. Started businesses that were profitable enough to sell for good money and retired at 59 but this isn't about me.

A long-time female friend, a single-mom with some college, raised 2 terrific kids with minimal financial support from dad and none at all from the gov't. She always made enough, $35,000 - $45,000/yr, to provide the little extras (tutors, hockey, dance) to let her kids know they are loved. She maintained her income by working o-time or a 2nd job yet found time to help with homework, cook, clean, kiddie transport, workout and have a life. She did make personal sacrifices (such as sleep) but never complained. Yeah, I don't know how she did it either but as a reward for taking RESPONSIBILITY for her life's choices, our gov't regularly took money out of her paychecks to give to the "less fortunate" ... some who may have truly needed help but many who willfully eschewed self-reliance and CHOSE entitlement. You know ... people who never put out the effort she did and does without complaint. In a word, PUSSIES.

You didnt build that!!!

 

[imawhosure]

Back to the OP...............the 1st dollar made by anyone goes to the feds. The second dollar goes to the state. Nobody can get more back than they put in. Then, everyone has skin in the game.

All food should have no type of tax, period. The government has a tax o everything you know! Does everyone know that they actually have tax on toilet paper?

If the fed wants to give poor people more money, they should have to legislate it through programs, and NOT bastardize the tax code. By using the tax code, it allows to many cheats to happen.

And I have a question for PaintmyHouse. Your example of those 2 people buying beer? What the hell was the poor person buying beer for in the 1st place? Shouldn't he instead be buying food?

Try as you might it is mathematically impossible to make the poor pay for their own government assistance. Isn't that the ultimate aim of a more regressive tax code?

Nobody has asked them to. I am just stating the case that "gifts" to anyone, should not be handed out through the tax code; and if ANYONE wants to give more, legislation must be required. Once that is done, the amount of money will be easy to follow, (libs will not like that) and Americans will become much more salty over the issue.

Nobody wants to deny anyone, anything, besides working peoples money that pay for people to do absolutely NOTHING, when instead, I could pay them to cut my grass!

I kind of get he gist of what you are saying, it sounds like you want the working poor to pay more and have to fight the politicians to get any of it back for any program that might benefit them. That's like what we have now only much worse.

OK, so then has anyone on here been on unemployment ever? Well if not, good for you, but I have. And so, do you know that after a certain amount of time (at least in the 2 states I got it from) you have to take LESS than what you made before if you are offered a job? In fact, today, you have to apply for jobs through UC.

So then, why is it that poor people who collect benefits are not required to go to a clearing house where jobs are offered, and then whatever money they make are discounted from their benefits? Or possibly only 50 or 60%. Do you people consider that giving them the shaft, or a leg up to prove their mettle in todays demanding workplace? You do understand that somebody getting benefits under the current conditions can NOT be hired if they do not apply!

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Here, let me give these libs an example of WHY their ideas are ridiculous. I have a nice lot at a Yogi Bear campground where I keep my wonderful 5th wheel through the summer so we can visit it and enjoy, before taking it to Florida for the winter.

Within 5 mls of Yogi, there is this young kid who is 14 years old that comes and cuts the lots grass for campers, depending on the size of the lot, 10 to 15 bucks a week. He has 93 lots, lol. He had to hire 2 more kids to help him, purchased 2 more mowers, and already fired 1 kid for poor performance.

Now Occupied, are you trying to tell me a 14 year old kid is smarter than you, lolol! (say it isn't so, heheheheheh) Talked the kids mother a month ago, he makes almost 1200 bucks a week, and he pays his 2 workers MORE than minimum wage. How? Because when he is done with cutting grass, he goes to his 2nd job, which is cutting grass for elder people in his subdivision.

Want to work? There is always a way, and if you are good at it, you can make a fortune! Kid is saving for his OWN college education, and wants to buy a vet. I doubt he will make it, but I won't bet against him.

One success story is not the whole story, I know a lot of people who have worked hard all their life and still have it rough, there is simply not enough opportunity out there for everyone to be prosperous, not even close, that is a failure of the system, not some personal failing in anyone in particular.

Utter Bull. There is endless opportunities out there for those that wish to try them. There is no such thing as limited opportunity in the United States. That's why we have all those people trying to sneak into this great country.

While there's still plenty of opportunities in America,immigrants have stolen the character building jobs from my youth.
Mowing grass used to be a school kids summer job just like fast food work.
Now those positions are held by immigrants and our kids are left out in the cold when it comes to getting valuable job experience.

So in essence we have a government throwing away our childrens future for votes and cheap labor.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Without getting it all back via carve outs & loop holes? Should they pay their fair share?

EVERYONE should pay taxes, every single U.S. citizen, no exceptions. But, everyone should pay at the same tax rate. If the tax rate is 15% of income, then everyone should pay 15%.

If you think the working poor could afford that you are dreaming. States are already squeezing them for all they are worth.

you know about California i see....

Actually California rates better than most states in how regressive their taxes are. They have an economy that is bigger than many countries and still has a lot of opportunity. The worst state I have personally experienced is Alabama, the reddest of the red, that taxes everything they can out of some of the poorest people in America.

California taxes the fuck out of the people here and they are always looking to tax something else and if it gets voted down they try the old "fee" game.....unless you have money or a great pension you cant retire here,in time this State will suck up what a "normal" retiree has.....many of those who have moved to other States are retirees who can no longer afford to live here,and that says alot about the assholes who run this State......and i have never heard anyone in Sacramento address this situation.....

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Here, let me give these libs an example of WHY their ideas are ridiculous. I have a nice lot at a Yogi Bear campground where I keep my wonderful 5th wheel through the summer so we can visit it and enjoy, before taking it to Florida for the winter.

Within 5 mls of Yogi, there is this young kid who is 14 years old that comes and cuts the lots grass for campers, depending on the size of the lot, 10 to 15 bucks a week. He has 93 lots, lol. He had to hire 2 more kids to help him, purchased 2 more mowers, and already fired 1 kid for poor performance.

Now Occupied, are you trying to tell me a 14 year old kid is smarter than you, lolol! (say it isn't so, heheheheheh) Talked the kids mother a month ago, he makes almost 1200 bucks a week, and he pays his 2 workers MORE than minimum wage. How? Because when he is done with cutting grass, he goes to his 2nd job, which is cutting grass for elder people in his subdivision.

Want to work? There is always a way, and if you are good at it, you can make a fortune! Kid is saving for his OWN college education, and wants to buy a vet. I doubt he will make it, but I won't bet against him.

One success story is not the whole story, I know a lot of people who have worked hard all their life and still have it rough, there is simply not enough opportunity out there for everyone to be prosperous, not even close, that is a failure of the system, not some personal failing in anyone in particular.

Life is not a video game in mommy's basement. You will never know about opportunity in America until you really try.

I dont understand someone who doesnt think being poor is a good enough incentive to do something about it.
I know I was always looking for ways to make more money by being more valuable to potential employers.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

A new analysis of Congressional Research Service data by the Republican side of the Senate Budget Committee shows that the amount spent on federal means-tested welfare programs, if converted to cash payments and divided among households below the poverty line, would equal a daily income greater than the median household income in 2011.

The cash value of welfare spending, according to the analysis, is $167.65 daily per household in poverty. The median household income in 2011 was $50,054 or $137.13 per day, according to the analysis, released Friday.

When broken down into an hourly wage, welfare spending would be enough for $30.60 an hour for 40 hour weeks for each household in poverty. The median household hourly wage is $25.03, which drops to between $21.50 and $23.45 after federal taxes, depending on deductions and filing status, the minority side of the committee showed. The wage is further reduced with local and state taxes. Benefits from government assistance programs, they note, are not taxed federally.



Read more: Cash value of welfare spending to households in poverty greater than median household income The Daily Caller

The problem is, that's someone getting the top out of all programs available, and no one does. Welfare is peanuts here.

Well I have several studies including one from the US Census bureau that states otherwise. Our poor are living more than quite comfortably and many don't do without much compared to that of working people. In fact, some do better than working people.

Whether you take one, two or several welfare programs, you are probably doing better than working people in that regard. I know as for myself what I see at the grocery store with people and their SNAP's cards. I wish I could eat like that and not have a care in the world. Then when they're done with their SNAP's card purchases, they whip out cash for beer, wine, cigarettes, flowers, candy, dog food, cat food, cat litter and so on. Nobody says a thing and they don't have the least bit of shame.

You want to get off of welfare, get a job, there are plenty of them out there. I know in my industry they can't find enough Americans to do the job so they are bringing in foreigners who are just about useless, but at least they will come to work.

 

[occupied]

Here, let me give these libs an example of WHY their ideas are ridiculous. I have a nice lot at a Yogi Bear campground where I keep my wonderful 5th wheel through the summer so we can visit it and enjoy, before taking it to Florida for the winter.

Within 5 mls of Yogi, there is this young kid who is 14 years old that comes and cuts the lots grass for campers, depending on the size of the lot, 10 to 15 bucks a week. He has 93 lots, lol. He had to hire 2 more kids to help him, purchased 2 more mowers, and already fired 1 kid for poor performance.

Now Occupied, are you trying to tell me a 14 year old kid is smarter than you, lolol! (say it isn't so, heheheheheh) Talked the kids mother a month ago, he makes almost 1200 bucks a week, and he pays his 2 workers MORE than minimum wage. How? Because when he is done with cutting grass, he goes to his 2nd job, which is cutting grass for elder people in his subdivision.

Want to work? There is always a way, and if you are good at it, you can make a fortune! Kid is saving for his OWN college education, and wants to buy a vet. I doubt he will make it, but I won't bet against him.

One success story is not the whole story, I know a lot of people who have worked hard all their life and still have it rough, there is simply not enough opportunity out there for everyone to be prosperous, not even close, that is a failure of the system, not some personal failing in anyone in particular.

Utter Bull. There is endless opportunities out there for those that wish to try them. There is no such thing as limited opportunity in the United States. That's why we have all those people trying to sneak into this great country.

Opportunity is a finite quantity based on the number of jobs, chores, services, sexual favors, bags of drugs, etc. that is in demand. This talk of limitless opportunity is fantasy, especially in such a cash-strapped, dog-eat-dog country as this.

 

[imawhosure]

Here, let me give these libs an example of WHY their ideas are ridiculous. I have a nice lot at a Yogi Bear campground where I keep my wonderful 5th wheel through the summer so we can visit it and enjoy, before taking it to Florida for the winter.

Within 5 mls of Yogi, there is this young kid who is 14 years old that comes and cuts the lots grass for campers, depending on the size of the lot, 10 to 15 bucks a week. He has 93 lots, lol. He had to hire 2 more kids to help him, purchased 2 more mowers, and already fired 1 kid for poor performance.

Now Occupied, are you trying to tell me a 14 year old kid is smarter than you, lolol! (say it isn't so, heheheheheh) Talked the kids mother a month ago, he makes almost 1200 bucks a week, and he pays his 2 workers MORE than minimum wage. How? Because when he is done with cutting grass, he goes to his 2nd job, which is cutting grass for elder people in his subdivision.

Want to work? There is always a way, and if you are good at it, you can make a fortune! Kid is saving for his OWN college education, and wants to buy a vet. I doubt he will make it, but I won't bet against him.

One success story is not the whole story, I know a lot of people who have worked hard all their life and still have it rough, there is simply not enough opportunity out there for everyone to be prosperous, not even close, that is a failure of the system, not some personal failing in anyone in particular.

Life is not a video game in mommy's basement. You will never know about opportunity in America until you really try.

I dont understand someone who doesnt think being poor is a good enough incentive to do something about it.
I know I was always looking for ways to make more money by being more valuable to potential employers.

I do Herewegoagain! Because some people have a better life gaming the system, then they could ever have without doing a tremendous amount of work. Many people are fleecing the system, and we are paying the freight.

All people have to do is ask 1 logical question.............in low income housing developments, is there, or is there not usually a drug and or gang problem? Well then, someone needs to explain to us, the taxpayer, how they can possibly have a drug problem, when supposedly, they aren't getting enough money to eat!

 

[imawhosure]

Here, let me give these libs an example of WHY their ideas are ridiculous. I have a nice lot at a Yogi Bear campground where I keep my wonderful 5th wheel through the summer so we can visit it and enjoy, before taking it to Florida for the winter.

Within 5 mls of Yogi, there is this young kid who is 14 years old that comes and cuts the lots grass for campers, depending on the size of the lot, 10 to 15 bucks a week. He has 93 lots, lol. He had to hire 2 more kids to help him, purchased 2 more mowers, and already fired 1 kid for poor performance.

Now Occupied, are you trying to tell me a 14 year old kid is smarter than you, lolol! (say it isn't so, heheheheheh) Talked the kids mother a month ago, he makes almost 1200 bucks a week, and he pays his 2 workers MORE than minimum wage. How? Because when he is done with cutting grass, he goes to his 2nd job, which is cutting grass for elder people in his subdivision.

Want to work? There is always a way, and if you are good at it, you can make a fortune! Kid is saving for his OWN college education, and wants to buy a vet. I doubt he will make it, but I won't bet against him.

One success story is not the whole story, I know a lot of people who have worked hard all their life and still have it rough, there is simply not enough opportunity out there for everyone to be prosperous, not even close, that is a failure of the system, not some personal failing in anyone in particular.

Utter Bull. There is endless opportunities out there for those that wish to try them. There is no such thing as limited opportunity in the United States. That's why we have all those people trying to sneak into this great country.

Opportunity is a finite quantity based on the number of jobs, chores, services, sexual favors, bags of drugs, etc. that is in demand. This talk of limitless opportunity is fantasy, especially in such a cash-strapped, dog-eat-dog country as this.

Then why is everyone trying to come here, and once here, fight to stay, lol! They die crossing deserts to get here, why? And then in your fantasy world, you fight to let them stay here and take YOUR JOB!

See, what a lot of people are saying is correct.............your own idiotic decisions in who you support are creating the circumstances you bitch, whine, and complain about.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Without getting it all back via carve outs & loop holes? Should they pay their fair share?

EVERYONE should pay taxes, every single U.S. citizen, no exceptions. But, everyone should pay at the same tax rate. If the tax rate is 15% of income, then everyone should pay 15%.

If you think the working poor could afford that you are dreaming. States are already squeezing them for all they are worth.

you know about California i see....

Actually California rates better than most states in how regressive their taxes are. They have an economy that is bigger than many countries and still has a lot of opportunity. The worst state I have personally experienced is Alabama, the reddest of the red, that taxes everything they can out of some of the poorest people in America.

California taxes the fuck out of the people here and they are always looking to tax something else and if it gets voted down they try the old "fee" game.....unless you have money or a great pension you cant retire here,in time this State will suck up what a "normal" retiree has.....many of those who have moved to other States are retirees who can no longer afford to live here,and that says alot about the assholes who run this State......and i have never heard anyone in Sacramento address this situation.....

And, California spends most of it's money on Illegal immigrants.