So Who's Really Being Intolerant ?

[protectionist]

The protectionist has never been wrong, And YOU KNOW it.

I have shown you to be wrong numerous times. In this thread, your claims about homosexuality being unnatural have been shown to be wrong.

You have NEVER shown me to be wrong (except in you deluded mind). My FACTS about homosexuality being unnatural are self-evident. The body parts (HETEROsexual) are NATURE. This is the word that NATURAL is from (an adjective derived from the word NATURE) I have shown YOU to be wrong, and very clearly.

You have shown nothing of the kind.

There are numerous examples of homosexual behavior in nature. It happens in numerous species for several reasons. To claim it doesn't is simply a lie.

And since it happens in nature, it is, by definition, natural.

Are you saying I said it doesn't happen ? I never said that.

No, that is not what I said. What I am correcting is your inaccurate claim that something observed in nature and in numerous species and locales, is unnatural.

You arent correcting anything, except in your deluded mind. Lots of things observed in nature are unnatural. Homosexuality (of any species) is simply one of them, pupil. How much are you going to pay me for this tutoring session I'm giving you ?

 

[2aguy]

Actually, Public accomodation laws are unconstitutional...if it is your property, a business, then you should decide who you serve or don't serve.....regardless of religious orientation.......

Personally, I agree with this.

As others have mentioned a business derives benefits from roads, bridges, etc. paid for by taxes and regulated by the government. If you wanna stick your business 500 miles from nowhere you can discriminate. Otherwise, your business is subject to government regulation. Can't pick n choose in other words.

Sorry....it is unconstitutional...we all benefit from the roads and businesses pay their taxes as well.....in fact...it is the business that pays the most for those services.....

Businesses consider taxes a cost of doing business. It is factored into the pricing. The customers pay the taxes.

Taxes are still levied against the business, how they get the money to pay the tax has no bearing on that fact.......

It would be nice if the lefties acknowldged this the next time they jack up taxes on businesses....and therefore the customers.....

 

[WinterBorn]

The Lev. quote calls it an "abomination". But I see nothing from the New Testament that does so. Yes, it is a sin, but I specifically asked where they determined it was an abomination. And since we are told that the Old Testament laws do not apply (when referencing other laws in Leviticus), you need to give examples of it being an "abomination" in the NT.

No I don't, I never said OT laws do not apply.

Ok, so what are the chances that these "christian" businesses are following all the rules and laws in Leviticus? Or are they just being another "cafeteria christian" and picking & choosing which rules are important?

The OP speaks of tolerance, not what is in the Bible. Simply, the gays are not tolerating, while claiming they are the victims of intolerance

And you are angry that people are showing that the christians are being intolerant. It wasn't what you wanted the discussion to be about, so you are throsing a tantrum. Typical.

You are angry that a few businesses and their paid off governors are showing that the gays are intolerant. The discussion is supposed to be about the topic. If you can't keep to it get out of here. You;re nothing but a stinking troll anyway and you know it.

I have not introduced any new topic to this thread. I have only addressed issues raised.

You raised the issue about whether something was natural or not. I corrected you and you are pissed about it. No, I am not leaving. You should know that by know.

 

[protectionist]

No I don't, I never said OT laws do not apply.

Ok, so what are the chances that these "christian" businesses are following all the rules and laws in Leviticus? Or are they just being another "cafeteria christian" and picking & choosing which rules are important?

The OP speaks of tolerance, not what is in the Bible. Simply, the gays are not tolerating, while claiming they are the victims of intolerance

And you are angry that people are showing that the christians are being intolerant. It wasn't what you wanted the discussion to be about, so you are throsing a tantrum. Typical.

You are angry that a few businesses and their paid off governors are showing that the gays are intolerant. The discussion is supposed to be about the topic. If you can't keep to it get out of here. You;re nothing but a stinking troll anyway and you know it.

Typical. Once again you start getting pissy when the topic doesn't go the way you want.

And yes, there is intolerance on both sides of this argument. To claim otherwise is ignorant.

The topic has never deviated from how I want, which is the truth. What angers me it your HARRASSMENT and how the do nothings masquerading as mods, do nothing about it, and let you get away with it. But you'll pay. I promise you that. I'm going to show in all your threads and kick your ass there too. If the mods wont mod, I will.

 

[protectionist]

No I don't, I never said OT laws do not apply.

Ok, so what are the chances that these "christian" businesses are following all the rules and laws in Leviticus? Or are they just being another "cafeteria christian" and picking & choosing which rules are important?

The OP speaks of tolerance, not what is in the Bible. Simply, the gays are not tolerating, while claiming they are the victims of intolerance

And you are angry that people are showing that the christians are being intolerant. It wasn't what you wanted the discussion to be about, so you are throsing a tantrum. Typical.

You are angry that a few businesses and their paid off governors are showing that the gays are intolerant. The discussion is supposed to be about the topic. If you can't keep to it get out of here. You;re nothing but a stinking troll anyway and you know it.

I have not introduced any new topic to this thread. I have only addressed issues raised.

You raised the issue about whether something was natural or not. I corrected you and you are pissed about it. No, I am not leaving. You should know that by know.

You have corrected NOTHING.

Again >> How much are you going to pay me for this tutoring session I'm giving you ?

 

[WinterBorn]

You have NEVER shown me to be wrong (except in you deluded mind). My FACTS about homosexuality being unnatural are self-evident. The body parts (HETEROsexual) are NATURE. This is the word that NATURAL is from (an adjective derived from the word NATURE) I have shown YOU to be wrong, and very clearly.

You have shown nothing of the kind.

There are numerous examples of homosexual behavior in nature. It happens in numerous species for several reasons. To claim it doesn't is simply a lie.

And since it happens in nature, it is, by definition, natural.

Are you saying I said it doesn't happen ? I never said that.

No, that is not what I said. What I am correcting is your inaccurate claim that something observed in nature and in numerous species and locales, is unnatural.

You arent correcting anything, except in your deluded mind. Lots of things observed in nature are unnatural. Homosexuality (of any species) is simply one of them, pupil. How much are you going to pay me for this tutoring session I'm giving you ?

You obviously are clueless as to what "natural" means. Allow me to help you out.

From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:

"
natural


adjective nat·u·ral \ˈna-chə-rəl, ˈnach-rəl\
: existing in nature and not made or caused by people : coming from nature

: not having any extra substances or chemicals added : not containing anything artificial"



So, if the activity exists in nature and is not made or caused by people, it is natural. Thus endeth the lesson.

 

[WinterBorn]

Ok, so what are the chances that these "christian" businesses are following all the rules and laws in Leviticus? Or are they just being another "cafeteria christian" and picking & choosing which rules are important?

The OP speaks of tolerance, not what is in the Bible. Simply, the gays are not tolerating, while claiming they are the victims of intolerance

And you are angry that people are showing that the christians are being intolerant. It wasn't what you wanted the discussion to be about, so you are throsing a tantrum. Typical.

You are angry that a few businesses and their paid off governors are showing that the gays are intolerant. The discussion is supposed to be about the topic. If you can't keep to it get out of here. You;re nothing but a stinking troll anyway and you know it.

Typical. Once again you start getting pissy when the topic doesn't go the way you want.

And yes, there is intolerance on both sides of this argument. To claim otherwise is ignorant.

The topic has never deviated from how I want, which is the truth. What angers me it your HARRASSMENT and how the do nothings masquerading as mods, do nothing about it, and let you get away with it. But you'll pay. I promise you that. I'm going to show in all your threads and kick your ass there too. If the mods wont mod, I will.

OFF TOPIC!!!!!!

 

[WinterBorn]

Ok, so what are the chances that these "christian" businesses are following all the rules and laws in Leviticus? Or are they just being another "cafeteria christian" and picking & choosing which rules are important?

The OP speaks of tolerance, not what is in the Bible. Simply, the gays are not tolerating, while claiming they are the victims of intolerance

And you are angry that people are showing that the christians are being intolerant. It wasn't what you wanted the discussion to be about, so you are throsing a tantrum. Typical.

You are angry that a few businesses and their paid off governors are showing that the gays are intolerant. The discussion is supposed to be about the topic. If you can't keep to it get out of here. You;re nothing but a stinking troll anyway and you know it.

I have not introduced any new topic to this thread. I have only addressed issues raised.

You raised the issue about whether something was natural or not. I corrected you and you are pissed about it. No, I am not leaving. You should know that by know.

You have corrected NOTHING.

Again >> How much are you going to pay me for this tutoring session I'm giving you ?

Dude, I only pay for tutoring if the info is accurate. I have posted the definition of "natural". You might look at that and quit pretending to know something.

 

[protectionist]

Everything alive is an animal.

That is FALSE! I was once a biology major in college. Animals are only one branch of the biosphere. There is also the plant kingdom, Monera, Protista, and Fungi.

Monera - Bacteria, cyanobacteria or blue-green algae (BGA) and spirochetes

Protista - Protozoans, slime molds and some unicellular algae

Fungi - Molds, yeasts, mildews, smuts, toadstools and mushrooms.

Don't get so excited. Yes, he was wrong in the way he said it. But I notice you didn't correct the assumption made by another poster that we are not animals.

The thread is moving VERY fast, and hard to keep up with every post. That's why I'm out of here right now . I hate fast moving threads.

 

[WinterBorn]

Ok, so what are the chances that these "christian" businesses are following all the rules and laws in Leviticus? Or are they just being another "cafeteria christian" and picking & choosing which rules are important?

The OP speaks of tolerance, not what is in the Bible. Simply, the gays are not tolerating, while claiming they are the victims of intolerance

And you are angry that people are showing that the christians are being intolerant. It wasn't what you wanted the discussion to be about, so you are throsing a tantrum. Typical.

You are angry that a few businesses and their paid off governors are showing that the gays are intolerant. The discussion is supposed to be about the topic. If you can't keep to it get out of here. You;re nothing but a stinking troll anyway and you know it.

Typical. Once again you start getting pissy when the topic doesn't go the way you want.

And yes, there is intolerance on both sides of this argument. To claim otherwise is ignorant.

The topic has never deviated from how I want, which is the truth. What angers me it your HARRASSMENT and how the do nothings masquerading as mods, do nothing about it, and let you get away with it. But you'll pay. I promise you that. I'm going to show in all your threads and kick your ass there too. If the mods wont mod, I will.

I'm not getting away with anything. I am only discussing issues someone else (often you) brought up. That you get so pissy about it shows you have nothing of value to offer.

If you think you scare me you are laughably misinformed about how scary you are.

 

[JOSweetHeart]

"Contrary to nature."

Anything exhibited by nature or non-human animals is "natural" yes? So what about the several hundred species of animals exhibiting homosexual behaviours and preferences? Sounds pretty "natural" to me.

Do Animals Exhibit Homosexuality Yale Scientific Magazine

Some animals also eat their young. Animals do all kinds of weird stuff. Doesn't mean we should do it.

Amen to this. Animals also get their meals from a trash can and hibernate when the cold sets in, but we humans do not.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

 

[WinterBorn]

Everything alive is an animal.

That is FALSE! I was once a biology major in college. Animals are only one branch of the biosphere. There is also the plant kingdom, Monera, Protista, and Fungi.

Monera - Bacteria, cyanobacteria or blue-green algae (BGA) and spirochetes

Protista - Protozoans, slime molds and some unicellular algae

Fungi - Molds, yeasts, mildews, smuts, toadstools and mushrooms.

Don't get so excited. Yes, he was wrong in the way he said it. But I notice you didn't correct the assumption made by another poster that we are not animals.

The thread is moving VERY fast, and hard to keep up with every post. That's why I'm out of here right now . I hate fast moving threads.

Yeah, that is a good excuse. LMAO!!!!

 

[WinterBorn]

"Contrary to nature."

Anything exhibited by nature or non-human animals is "natural" yes? So what about the several hundred species of animals exhibiting homosexual behaviours and preferences? Sounds pretty "natural" to me.

Do Animals Exhibit Homosexuality Yale Scientific Magazine

Some animals also eat their young. Animals do all kinds of weird stuff. Doesn't mean we should do it.

Amen to this. Animals also get their meals from a trash can and hibernate when the cold sets in, but we humans do not.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

No one is saying that people should do as animals do. The entire reason for bringing up animal behavior is to refute the claim that homosexual behavior is "unnatural". It most certainly is not.

 

[JOSweetHeart]

^^^ Well if homosexuality was the every intention, why were two genders created and not just one and why is a male and female union the only way that reproduction can ever take place?

God bless you always!!!

Holly

 

[WinterBorn]

^^^ Well if homosexuality was the every intention, why were two genders created and not just one and why is a male and female union the only way that reproduction can ever take place?

God bless you always!!!

Holly

No one has argued that heterosexuals are the way we reproduce. The simple fact is that numerous species have been observed participating in same gender coupling and sexual activities. This happens without any involvement of people. So it is, by definition, natural.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I find it amusing that someone has a business that is open on the Sabbath, but they claim it is against their religion to serve gays. lmao It seems to me like they are in desperate need of an education on what their religion actually says.

Now, the threats of violence on either side are wrong. But when you start out passing laws designed to further discrimination, you don't get to complain when people get pissed off at you.

In the case of Christians and gays, it is impossible for someone to not be discriminated against. Discrimination is not necessarily a bad thing. It is done all the time by all of us. What matters is how it is done, and for what reason.

In the case of Indiana and Arkansas, the governors chose to discriminate against the Christians, while letting the gays have their way. Should have been the reverse.

How are christians being discriminated against? By not allowing them to discriminate? lol

If christians do not want to follow the laws of the land, where dealing with people is concerned, then they should do like the Amish. Otherwise, you follow the basic rules.

Forcing them to go against their religious beliefs isn't discriminating them for their beliefs?

How are they being forced to go against their religious beliefs?? Are THEY being forced to engage in homosexual acts? They are making pizzas, arranging flowers or baking cakes. That is all.

They are being forced to go against their religious beliefs, they believe, by having to participate in something which is against their religion (ie. same sex marriage)

Incorrect.

No one is being 'forced' to do anything.

Religious beliefs may not be used as an 'excuse' to ignore or violate just, proper, and Constitutional laws, such as public accommodations laws, as the intent of these laws is regulatory, not to disadvantage religion.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

How are christians being discriminated against? By not allowing them to discriminate? lol

If christians do not want to follow the laws of the land, where dealing with people is concerned, then they should do like the Amish. Otherwise, you follow the basic rules.

Forcing them to go against their religious beliefs isn't discriminating them for their beliefs?

When you engage in commerce, you do so voluntarily and are not forced.

If they cant seperate their religion from doing business, they are free to not engage.

Yes and in a free society you should be free to engage in commerce with whoever you choose. The queers can look for another vendor that caters to their abominable lifestyle.

In a completely free society that would certainly be the case. It would also have allowed businesses to bar blacks from sitting at the lunch counter. It would bar jews from doing business with anyone. It would allow realtors to discriminate against people wanting tobuy a home (that they can afford).

Only if being black or Jewish were an abomination according to their beliefs. But we're not talking about blacks or Jews so please stop with the bullshit.

We're talking about gay Americans, who, like African-Americans and Jewish Americans, manifest as a class of persons entitled to Constitutional protections with regard to government action, and the protections afforded to gay Americans by public accommodations laws with regard to being patrons of private businesses open to the general public and local community.

That some perceive homosexuality to be “an abomination according to their beliefs” is just as wrong, hateful, and repugnant to a free and democratic society as perceiving African-Americans and Jewish Americans to be “an abomination according to their beliefs.”

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Yes, the wedding is the activity for which the cake was bought. And the wedding is recognized by the state.

But to claim that the baker is being forced to participate in homosexual activity, simply because he baked a cake for a gay wedding, is absolutely ridiculous.

No it isn't...considering they are facing fines and jail time..........that is incredibly serious...over one cake.....that could be baked at any other bakery............

They are facing those punishments because they refused to follow the laws that they KNOW exists. They chose to break the law. This is the result.

The "law" is RFRA, which is supposed to have protected the Christians, not the gays. The state is required to have a "compelling reason" to override that RFRA law, in order to do so. And the compelling reason that the state (we the 317 million people of America) must have the gays buy their cake form this one bakery, when they could easily have just gone to another bakery ?

This whole fiasco is a set-up by the gays, to take Christians down, whom they see as opponents to their crusade to establish themselves as fully accepted in society. In the meantime, they are widely NOT accepted, and the American people do NOT have any compelling reason (or desire) to have the Christians be forced to act in opposition to their religious beliefs, which are supposed to be protected by law.

I have seen several polls that have more than 50% of our population approving of gay marriage.

I believe in ELECTIONS more than I do of polls. And elections put thousands of governors and legislators in office, who have enacted bans on gay marriage.

In violation of the Constitution, which is why those bans are being invalidated by the courts.

In our Constitutional Republic one should place his belief in the rule of law, not men – as men are incapable of ruling justly, measures prohibiting gay Americans from accessing marriage law is proof of that.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

Forcing them to go against their religious beliefs isn't discriminating them for their beliefs?

When you engage in commerce, you do so voluntarily and are not forced.

If they cant seperate their religion from doing business, they are free to not engage.

Yes and in a free society you should be free to engage in commerce with whoever you choose. The queers can look for another vendor that caters to their abominable lifestyle.

In a completely free society that would certainly be the case. It would also have allowed businesses to bar blacks from sitting at the lunch counter. It would bar jews from doing business with anyone. It would allow realtors to discriminate against people wanting tobuy a home (that they can afford).

Only if being black or Jewish were an abomination according to their beliefs. But we're not talking about blacks or Jews so please stop with the bullshit.

We're talking about gay Americans, who, like African-Americans and Jewish Americans, manifest as a class of persons entitled to Constitutional protections with regard to government action, and the protections afforded to gay Americans by public accommodations laws with regard to being patrons of private businesses open to the general public and local community.

That some perceive homosexuality to be “an abomination according to their beliefs” is just as wrong, hateful, and repugnant to a free and democratic society as perceiving African-Americans and Jewish Americans to be “an abomination according to their beliefs.”

Wrong, no African American can choose to be a Native American, or a Caucasian American, and no Jewish American can choose to be an African American.

Anyone can claim they are homosexual, it's an improper analogy.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Actually, Public accomodation laws are unconstitutional...if it is your property, a business, then you should decide who you serve or don't serve.....regardless of religious orientation.......

So, if I say its against my "religions", I don't have to rent or sell to Blacks?

You might want check the law.