Hitler, Fascism and the right wing

[Discombobulated]

Nazi Germany: government health care, education, production quotas, supply and demand. Seems pretty leftist to me.

They would, to you. Thus every government which did not engage in ethnic cleansing fits your stupid definition of "leftist". And that includes every developed country which has ever existed. It even includes your Messiah, Sir Ronald of Hollywood, government.

Oh yes, we have a central government in the United States that has been operating unconstitutionally since 1932.

The unfortunate results of a web based education.

I figured anyone with a "Marxx" for his screen icon would know the political left.

Of course you do, that's because dim wits like you believe symbols are more important than reality.

 

[Discombobulated]

You are really hung up on the word "socialist". That is not the whole picture.

Tell us the people in the photos are left wingers, coward. Stop dodging.

If they are TRUE nationalist-Socialist then they are. Nazi, Germany was a socialist state.

See, you still can't say it! Amazing.

"Those people in the photos are left wingers".

You just can't say it, because deep down you know just how unbelievably retarded it is to think Nazis are left wingers.

I will say it again. If they are TRUE Nazi's then yes, they are leftist.

And every time you say it in the future you'll be just as wrong.

You eat your corn on the cob long ways don't ya? think you might have tendencies.

Jonah Goldberg is not a historian.

 

[bripat9643]

Right-wing German historians on Fascism:

As mentioned earlier, a number of right-wing German historians and philosophers have spoken quite a lot about the nature of the regime, especially during the Historikerstreit or Historians Dispute, linked below.

During this disupte, a number of right-wing historians, including Ernst Nolte, Michael Sturmer and Andreas Hilgruber, claimed (in short) that right-wing capitalism had been forced to oppose communism, and that Fascism was the result.

Ernst Nolte - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Nolte's conclusion was that fascism was the great anti-movement: it was anti-liberal, anti-communist, anti-capitalist, and anti-bourgeois.

How can fascism be "right-wing" if it's "anti-capitalist" and "anti-bourgeois?" It appears this historian doesn't hold the position you claim.

The wikipedia entry on Michael Sturmer doesn't mention any of his views on Nazi economics or whether they were "right-wing." The same goes for Andreas Hilgruber. At any rate, the claim that "right-wing capitalism had been forced to oppose communism" doesn't indicate a belief that Nazis were left or right-wing. It only indicates they were anti-communists.

Centrist historians attacked them for playing down Germany's reponsibility for the Holocaust. Socialist historians went further, insisting that Fascism represented the culmination of capitalist thinking, and thus all capitalism was in some way culpable, though these attacks have now largely been forgotten (and with good reason).

Whatever they thought is irrelevant. It doesn't support your claim that the viewed the Nazis as "right-wing."

Essentially all of the 20 or so historians in this debate used the term 'right'wing' extensively to describe the Nazi regime. Although there is discussion concerning the similarities between various totalitarian regimes, what is clear is the importance of capitalism to all interpretations of fascist regimes.

I haven't seen any evidence of that with regard to the historians you listed above.

Historikerstreit - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The debate opened on June 6, 1986 when the philosopher and historian Ernst Nolte had a speech printed in the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, entitled Die Vergangenheit, die nicht vergehen will (“The past that won't go away”). Nolte argued that the “race murder” of the Nazi death camps was a “defensive reaction” to the “class murder” of the Stalinist system of gulags. In his view, the gulags were the original and greater horror. In the face of the threat of Bolshevism, it was reasonable that the German people would turn to Nazi fascism.[9] He had already articulated this argument the previous year in an essay published in English: “Auschwitz... was above all a reaction born out of the annihilating occurrences of the Russian Revolution... the so-called annihilation of the Jews during the Third Reich was a reaction or a distorted copy and not a first act or an original”

This alone should prove to any logical person that fascism was clearly, obviously unequivocably capitalist and right wing in nature.

hmmmm, no. The quote above doesn't even claim that the Nazis were right wing. It only states that Nazi crimes were a reaction to Stalinist Gulags.

 

[Bush92]

Nazi Germany: government health care, education, production quotas, supply and demand. Seems pretty leftist to me.

They would, to you. Thus every government which did not engage in ethnic cleansing fits your stupid definition of "leftist". And that includes every developed country which has ever existed. It even includes your Messiah, Sir Ronald of Hollywood, government.

Oh yes, we have a central government in the United States that has been operating unconstitutionally since 1932.

The unfortunate results of a web based education.

I figured anyone with a "Marxx" for his screen icon would know the political left.

Of course you do, that's because dim wits like you believe symbols are more important than reality.

No. The reality is that Nazi's were leftist and liberal historians have been trying to depict them as righties for years. Can't have bad ol Nazi's sharing same side of spectrum with liberals.

 

[g5000]

If you rubes can admit to yourselves the people in those photos are clearly far right wingers, then it is time for you to ask yourselves, "What did I miss when I thought Nazis were left wingers?"

Spend the day contemplating that. You have been misled for nefarious purposes. When the far right influences begin seeping into your own belief system, your mental defenses aren't there to stop you from succumbing to your inner totalitarian. "Hey, I can't be falling for Nazi bullshit because Nazis are left wing!"

You missed something. Look at the photos. Time to wake up or one day you will be foaming at the mouth because someone isn't wearing a flag pin.

 

[Bush92]

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

 

[bripat9643]

If they are TRUE nationalist-Socialist then they are. Nazi, Germany was a socialist state.

See, you still can't say it! Amazing.

"Those people in the photos are left wingers".

You just can't say it, because deep down you know just how unbelievably retarded it is to think Nazis are left wingers.

I will say it again. If they are TRUE Nazi's then yes, they are leftist.

And every time you say it in the future you'll be just as wrong.

You eat your corn on the cob long ways don't ya? think you might have tendencies.

Jonah Goldberg is not a historian.

Sure he his. He performed all the appropriate historical research for his book, which was thoroughly annotated. How does he not qualify as a "historian?"

 

[bripat9643]

Holy shit these people are stupid. When will the dummies substantiate their alleged argument?

I think it reaches a point where posters have spent days debating this, realise that they are wrong, and figure they better bluff it out.

They will also repeat the same lies next week, I suspect.

This is what happens when people put partisan loyalty ahead of truth.

Is that your strategy? Well, no, you wait an entire year before repeating your lies.

 

[Bush92]

Stalin = death camps
Pol Pot = death camps
North Korea = death camps
Nazi Germany = death camps
Left, left, left, and yes...left.

 

[bripat9643]

Holy shit these people are stupid. When will the dummies substantiate their alleged argument?

I think it reaches a point where posters have spent days debating this, realise that they are wrong, and figure they better bluff it out.

They will also repeat the same lies next week, I suspect.

This is what happens when people put partisan loyalty ahead of truth.

That's exactly what you did all throughout your failed effort here. You haven't posted a single piece of evidence where ANY historian made the claim that national socialism in NAZI Germany wasn't a form of socialism. I, on the other hand, posted sources that show how it was.

Only a retard would try to claim the workers socialist party adopted nationalism and therefore was no longer socialist. You are too stupid to realize how outlandish that is. Your propaganda won't work here.

Hey stupid....you're the one trying to overturn universally accepted history. The burden of proof is entirely on you.....obviously.

This is a variation of the "scientific consensus" logic used to justify the AGW theory. It's essentially an appeal to authority and just as wrong.

 

[Discombobulated]

They would, to you. Thus every government which did not engage in ethnic cleansing fits your stupid definition of "leftist". And that includes every developed country which has ever existed. It even includes your Messiah, Sir Ronald of Hollywood, government.

Oh yes, we have a central government in the United States that has been operating unconstitutionally since 1932.

The unfortunate results of a web based education.

I figured anyone with a "Marxx" for his screen icon would know the political left.

Of course you do, that's because dim wits like you believe symbols are more important than reality.

No. The reality is that Nazi's were leftist and liberal historians have been trying to depict them as righties for years. Can't have bad ol Nazi's sharing same side of spectrum with liberals.

That is just about the stupidest fucking thing anyone has ever said about anything. You really are this simple minded.

 

[bripat9643]

You haven't posted a single piece of evidence where ANY historian made the claim that national socialism in NAZI Germany wasn't a form of socialism

And it's back to lying.

By my count there are about 20 links, book citations and historians named in this thread. I named 4 historians about 10 minutes ago, and another two Nazi Party members. All were right-wing Germans.

You've simply referred to authorities and their opinions. You haven't posted any evidence to support your claims, and you haven't quoted anything from your authorities other than their opinions. The opinions of 1000 jackasses can be just as wrong as the opinion of a single person.

 

[Discombobulated]

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

Now perhaps you can cite the historians who substantiate your view.

 

[Bush92]

Oh yes, we have a central government in the United States that has been operating unconstitutionally since 1932.

The unfortunate results of a web based education.

I figured anyone with a "Marxx" for his screen icon would know the political left.

Of course you do, that's because dim wits like you believe symbols are more important than reality.

No. The reality is that Nazi's were leftist and liberal historians have been trying to depict them as righties for years. Can't have bad ol Nazi's sharing same side of spectrum with liberals.

That is just about the stupidest fucking thing anyone has ever said about anything. You really are this simple minded.

Oh my...truth is so painful.

 

[bripat9643]

Moving on to New York, we find another group of left wingers:

BLACKS HAVE BEEN OPPRESSED LONG ENOUGH!!!

Their uniforms don't prove a thing about their views on economics.

FAIL!

 

[Discombobulated]

You'd have to be very stupid indeed to find Jonah Goldberg to be at all compelling or even honest.

 

[Bush92]

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

Now perhaps you can cite the historians who substantiate your view.

Toland does with his 1976 bio of Hitler. He wrote it objectively and it evidences the leftist state of Nazi, Germany.

 

[bripat9643]

Hey stupid....you're the one trying to overturn universally accepted history. The burden of proof is entirely on you.....obviously.

Hey stupid, show me where they say it wasn't socialism. YOU made the claim without evidence. I backed up mine.

"Hitler's other political beliefs place him almost always on the far right. He advocated racism over racial tolerance, eugenics over freedom of reproduction, merit over equality, competition over cooperation, power politics and militarism over pacifism, dictatorship over democracy, capitalism over Marxism, realism over idealism, nationalism over internationalism, exclusiveness over inclusiveness, common sense over theory or science, pragmatism over principle, and even held friendly relations with the Church, even though he was an atheist."

The claim that "racism," "eugenics" "power" and "militarism" are right-wing is totally without any scientific merit. Woodrow Wilson was one of the leading supporters of eugenics in his day. He was also a profound racist.
As has been demonstrated time and time again in this forum, the Nazis opposed capitalism. Just about everything on your list isn't just wrong, it's hilariously wrong and the opposite of the truth.

 

[bripat9643]

How much brain damage do you have to have to think these people are left wingers?

That's a serious question. How much brain damage do you idiots have? It's got to be at least seven pounds of brain damage.

Read the stuff posted by the resident Neo-Nazi in this forum. He sure ain't no fan of capitalism.

 

[Discombobulated]

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

Now perhaps you can cite the historians who substantiate your view.

Toland does with his 1976 bio of Hitler. He wrote it objectively and it evidences the leftist state of Nazi, Germany.

Another author you never read, I've read all of Toland's books and he never comes close to saying anything like that. Toland would never indulge in petty political dialectics.