Liberals Obliterated by Founding Fathers on Guns

[paperview]

Why address the issue, deflecting is so much easier.

Paperweight, you destroyed whatever progress you thought you were making with your admission against interest in your last post. So you admit that the founders we're in favor of arming the citizenry. Thanks, Geo wins.

The name is Paperview, and whatever your "admission against interest" means I don't have a flipping clue.

I'm have always been a Second Amendment supporter, so you got squat, Jack.

One thing I am wholly dedicated to is historical accuracy, and if you don't know that by now about me, you don't know me.

 

[Darkwind]

How many mass murders of innocents were carried out in the 18th Century with an 18th Century gun? Does anyone believe those men listed in the OP were stupid?

Your analogy is entirely irrelevant. Why do you even post such utter nonsense?

Because he beleives that prosecuting the innocent will somehow be binding on the guilty.

 

[GeoLaureate8]

The name is Paperview, and whatever your "admission against interest" means I don't have a flipping clue.

I'm have always been a Second Amendment supporter, so you got squat, Jack.

One thing I am wholly dedicated to is historical accuracy, and if you don't know that by now about me, you don't know me.

You are also dedicated to trashing Libertarians and Republicans:

Your post history shows you bashing Rand Paul, The John Birch Society, and the RNC.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/search.php?searchid=6366647

Liberals like to claim they respect the 2nd Amendment but there's always a "but I want an assault weapons ban and gun registry."


.

 

[Bigfoot]

22 school children were stabbed in China the same day as Sandy Hook.

How many died?

What difference does it make?

 

[Tech_Esq]

Why address the issue, deflecting is so much easier.

Paperweight, you destroyed whatever progress you thought you were making with your admission against interest in your last post. So you admit that the founders we're in favor of arming the citizenry. Thanks, Geo wins.

The name is Paperview, and whatever your "admission against interest" means I don't have a flipping clue.

I'm have always been a Second Amendment supporter, so you got squat, Jack.

One thing I am wholly dedicated to is historical accuracy, and if you don't know that by now about me, you don't know me.

Ok, if you insist, I will take you to school, an admission against interest is when the subject, in this case you, says something that would redound against his own interest and he would have no purpose in saying it if it were not true.

(i.e. "I gave the counterfeit $50 to the store clerk.")

In your case, you admitted that there were other founder's arguments that were as good as the ones he was using. Since you were arguing against him (assumed, but now it appears perhaps not, on SUBSTANCE), then that would have redounded against your interest.

Your other claims, I have no knowledge of. I don't know you and I don't know what you believe or stand for. I've made no claims one way or the other on those counts. I may have misconstrued whether or not you were against Geo on the substance of his argument however. We'll see as this goes on. If you're not, I retract the "paperweight" appellation.

 

[paperview]

The name is Paperview, and whatever your "admission against interest" means I don't have a flipping clue.

I'm have always been a Second Amendment supporter, so you got squat, Jack.

One thing I am wholly dedicated to is historical accuracy, and if you don't know that by now about me, you don't know me.

You are also dedicated to trashing Libertarians and Republicans:

Your post history shows you bashing Rand Paul, The John Birch Society, and the RNC.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/search.php?searchid=6366647

Liberals like to claim they respect the 2nd Amendment but there's always a "but I want an assault weapons ban and gun registry."


.

Oh dear! I'm a gun totin' liberal who bashes Rand Paul <both hands on cheeks with an Ohhh!> The RNC <ohh ohhhhhhhh!> and lest we not forget the venerable Birchers! <ohhh ohhh oHHHHh!>

Does that mean the fluoride in the water really is killing me?

What a doofus post.

 

[paperview]

And Geo, if you want me to get reaaal picky, the Sam Adams fullquote is this:

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms."

Samuel Adams, (February 6, 1788), reported in Charles Hale, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts (1856), p. 86.

Now, I have a question, when that lil thing call Shays rebellion was going on (you know that thing that helped bring Geo Washington to the convention to fight for a more powerful central government) - what did that old patriot say about it?

Need a quote?

Here, I'lllay one on ya:

"In monarchies the crime of treason and rebellion may admit of being pardoned or lightly punished, but the man who dares rebel against the laws of a republic ought to suffer death." -Samuel Adams, 1787

 

[GeoLaureate8]

22 school children were stabbed in China the same day as Sandy Hook.

How many died?

How many died from Timothy McVeigh's fertilizer and race car fuel? 168 including children and babies. Should we ban that too?

Oklahoma City bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



.

 

[Tech_Esq]

And Geo, if you want me to get reaaal picky, the Sam Adams fullquote is this:

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms."

Samuel Adams, (February 6, 1788), reported in Charles Hale, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts (1856), p. 86.

Now, I have a question, when that lil thing call Shays rebellion was going on (you know that thing that helped bring Geo Washington to the convention to fight for a more powerful central government) - what did that old patriot say about it?

Need a quote?

Here, I'lllay one on ya:

"In monarchies the crime of treason and rebellion may admit of being pardoned or lightly punished, but the man who dares rebel against the laws of a republic ought to suffer death." -Samuel Adams, 1787

This is not an inconsistent view from Adams. Of course, he was speaking from the point of view of a newly created and relatively "pure" republic. He was not talking about one that has collected over 200 years of tarnish and is barely recognizable as the thing that was created by the founders. If he were informed that the republic had turned tyrannical, I think it's clear what Adams would say.

 

[GeoLaureate8]

And Geo, if you want me to get reaaal picky, the Sam Adams fullquote is this:

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms."

Samuel Adams, (February 6, 1788), reported in Charles Hale, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts (1856), p. 86.

Already aware of that. It changes nothing. No rewording there.

Now, I have a question, when that lil thing call Shays rebellion was going on (you know that thing that helped bring Geo Washington to the convention to fight for a more powerful central government) - what did that old patriot say about it?

Need a quote?

Here, I'lllay one on ya:

"In monarchies the crime of treason and rebellion may admit of being pardoned or lightly punished, but the man who dares rebel against the laws of a republic ought to suffer death." -Samuel Adams, 1787

Yes, I am well aware of how hostile the Founders were towards tyrants and fascists. As a Libertarian-Totalitarian, I fully sympathize with a zero-tolerance attitude towards anything that opposes freedom. No Hitlers, Stalins, or Maos shall be permitted in a free society. You want to deprive others freedom? You will be granted the most unfreedom you could ever think of.


.

 

[paperview]

And Geo, if you want me to get reaaal picky, the Sam Adams fullquote is this:

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms."

Samuel Adams, (February 6, 1788), reported in Charles Hale, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts (1856), p. 86.

Now, I have a question, when that lil thing call Shays rebellion was going on (you know that thing that helped bring Geo Washington to the convention to fight for a more powerful central government) - what did that old patriot say about it?

Need a quote?

Here, I'lllay one on ya:

"In monarchies the crime of treason and rebellion may admit of being pardoned or lightly punished, but the man who dares rebel against the laws of a republic ought to suffer death." -Samuel Adams, 1787

This is not an inconsistent view from Adams. Of course, he was speaking from the point of view of a newly created and relatively "pure" republic. He was not talking about one that has collected over 200 years of tarnish and is barely recognizable as the thing that was created by the founders. If he were informed that the republic had turned tyrannical, I think it's clear what Adams would say.

"200 years of tarnish"

That's a fine way to talk about this great country. Bet you like to wave flags a lot too.

This country has maintained well as a republic, and every election we see a smooth transition of power.

You either don't understand the word tyranny, or you just like hyperbole for hyperbole's sake.

 

[paperview]

And Geo, if you want me to get reaaal picky, the Sam Adams fullquote is this:

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms."

Samuel Adams, (February 6, 1788), reported in Charles Hale, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts (1856), p. 86.

Already aware of that. It changes nothing. No rewording there.

Now, I have a question, when that lil thing call Shays rebellion was going on (you know that thing that helped bring Geo Washington to the convention to fight for a more powerful central government) - what did that old patriot say about it?

Need a quote?

Here, I'lllay one on ya:

"In monarchies the crime of treason and rebellion may admit of being pardoned or lightly punished, but the man who dares rebel against the laws of a republic ought to suffer death." -Samuel Adams, 1787

Yes, I am well aware of how hostile the Founders were towards tyrants and fascists. As a Libertarian-Totalitarian, I fully sympathize with a zero-tolerance attitude towards anything that opposes freedom. No Hitlers, Stalins, or Maos shall be permitted in a free society. You want to deprive others freedom? You will be granted the most unfreedom you could ever think of.


.

The ruffians of Shays rebellion were tyrants and fascists?



Whahhhuh?

 

[GeoLaureate8]

That's a fine way to talk about this great country. Bet you like to wave flags a lot too.

This country has maintained well as a republic, and every election we see a smooth transition of power.

You either don't understand the word tyranny, or you just like hyperbole for hyperbole's sake.

"A 16-year-old American boy killed in an Obama administration drone strike "should have [had] a far more responsible father," Obama campaign senior adviser Robert Gibbs says."

Robert Gibbs Says Anwar al-Awlaki's Son, Killed By Drone Strike, Needs 'Far More Responsible Father'


.

 

[Tech_Esq]

And Geo, if you want me to get reaaal picky, the Sam Adams fullquote is this:

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms."

Samuel Adams, (February 6, 1788), reported in Charles Hale, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts (1856), p. 86.

Now, I have a question, when that lil thing call Shays rebellion was going on (you know that thing that helped bring Geo Washington to the convention to fight for a more powerful central government) - what did that old patriot say about it?

Need a quote?

Here, I'lllay one on ya:

"In monarchies the crime of treason and rebellion may admit of being pardoned or lightly punished, but the man who dares rebel against the laws of a republic ought to suffer death." -Samuel Adams, 1787

This is not an inconsistent view from Adams. Of course, he was speaking from the point of view of a newly created and relatively "pure" republic. He was not talking about one that has collected over 200 years of tarnish and is barely recognizable as the thing that was created by the founders. If he were informed that the republic had turned tyrannical, I think it's clear what Adams would say.

"200 years of tarnish"

That's a fine way to talk about this great country. Bet you like to wave flags a lot too.

This country has maintained well as a republic, and every election we see a smooth transition of power.

You either don't understand the word tyranny, or you just like hyperbole for hyperbole's sake.

Yes, like it or not, we've collected a lot of nasty stuff over the years. The founders did not create a welfare state and wouldn't like it if they saw it. To say nothing of the rest. Yes tarnish.

A smooth transition of power is not the only measure of a successful republic.

That said, tarnish is not tyranny. You need to improve your reading skills, sir.

I said, "If Adams were informed that the republic had turned tyrannical...." I did not say that that was the current state of affairs. You ASSUMED that all on your own, with predictable results.

 

[GeoLaureate8]

And Geo, if you want me to get reaaal picky, the Sam Adams fullquote is this:

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms."

Samuel Adams, (February 6, 1788), reported in Charles Hale, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts (1856), p. 86.

Already aware of that. It changes nothing. No rewording there.

Now, I have a question, when that lil thing call Shays rebellion was going on (you know that thing that helped bring Geo Washington to the convention to fight for a more powerful central government) - what did that old patriot say about it?

Need a quote?

Here, I'lllay one on ya:

"In monarchies the crime of treason and rebellion may admit of being pardoned or lightly punished, but the man who dares rebel against the laws of a republic ought to suffer death." -Samuel Adams, 1787

Yes, I am well aware of how hostile the Founders were towards tyrants and fascists. As a Libertarian-Totalitarian, I fully sympathize with a zero-tolerance attitude towards anything that opposes freedom. No Hitlers, Stalins, or Maos shall be permitted in a free society. You want to deprive others freedom? You will be granted the most unfreedom you could ever think of.


.

The ruffians of Shays rebellion were tyrants and fascists?



Whahhhuh?

"Samuel Adams claimed that foreigners ("British emissaries") were instigating treason among the commoners."
Shays' Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


To be honest, it seems to be a case of Samuel Adams losing touch and a state government becoming oppressive so the rebels were in the right.


.

 

[NYcarbineer]

If you take up arms against the United States government, you will be imprisoned, or killed, or both.

And it will be done to you constitutionally.

Try not to forget that while you're wetting your pants mouthing off about your right to commit treason.

 

[manifold]

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
-- George Washington

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms, disarm only those who are neither inclined, nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants. They serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1764

"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
-- Thomas Paine

"To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them."
-- George Mason

“The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.”
&#8232;-- Samuel Adams


Wait, I found somebody who does agree with Liberals:

“The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing.”
-- Adolf Hitler, April 1942


Alexander Hamilton on Dianne Feinstein: People should 'rush to arms' to defend against representatives who 'betray their constituents'
» Founding Fathers Battle Gun Grabbers From the Grave: Special Report Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

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Fantastic Post.

But I assume you do not support the right to bear nuclear arms. And if my assumption is correct then even you, a passionate patriotic supporter of the 2nd Amendment, concede that the right to bear arms should not be absolute. And once you cross that bold line, all that's left to do is to redraw the line where you think it makes sense. So where do you draw the line? RPGs? Tanks? 50cal machine guns? etc...

You seem like an educated man who has given this considerable thought, so I look forward to hearing what you have to say about that.

 

[regent]

The name is Paperview, and whatever your "admission against interest" means I don't have a flipping clue.

I'm have always been a Second Amendment supporter, so you got squat, Jack.

One thing I am wholly dedicated to is historical accuracy, and if you don't know that by now about me, you don't know me.

You are also dedicated to trashing Libertarians and Republicans:

Your post history shows you bashing Rand Paul, The John Birch Society, and the RNC.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/search.php?searchid=6366647

Liberals like to claim they respect the 2nd Amendment but there's always a "but I want an assault weapons ban and gun registry."


.

Oh dear! I'm a gun totin' liberal who bashes Rand Paul <both hands on cheeks with an Ohhh!> The RNC <ohh ohhhhhhhh!> and lest we not forget the venerable Birchers! <ohhh ohhh oHHHHh!>

Does that mean the fluoride in the water really is killing me?

What a doofus post.

Fluoride in water doesn't kill, it makes the brain soft so that the drinker soon becomes a communist. Anyone that lived in the Fifties knows this.

 

[GeoLaureate8]

Fantastic Post.

But I assume you do not support the right to bear nuclear arms. And if my assumption is correct then even you, a passionate patriotic supporter of the 2nd Amendment, concede that the right to bear arms should not be absolute. And once you cross that bold line, all that's left to do is to redraw the line where you think it makes sense. So where do you draw the line? RPGs? Tanks? 50cal machine guns? etc...

You seem like an educated man who has given this considerable thought, so I look forward to hearing what you have to say about that.

Firearm: A small arms weapon, as a rifle or pistol, from which a projectile is fired by gunpowder. Firearm | Define Firearm at Dictionary.com

Arms: (plural) a weapon, esp a firearm
-- World English Dictionary


.

 

[manifold]

Fantastic Post.

But I assume you do not support the right to bear nuclear arms. And if my assumption is correct then even you, a passionate patriotic supporter of the 2nd Amendment, concede that the right to bear arms should not be absolute. And once you cross that bold line, all that's left to do is to redraw the line where you think it makes sense. So where do you draw the line? RPGs? Tanks? 50cal machine guns? etc...

You seem like an educated man who has given this considerable thought, so I look forward to hearing what you have to say about that.

Firearm: A small arms weapon, as a rifle or pistol, from which a projectile is fired by gunpowder. Firearm | Define Firearm at Dictionary.com

Arms: (plural) a weapon, esp a firearm
-- World English Dictionary


.

Does that include an AR-15? or an AK-47?

I think it would.