On the GOP

[Wyatt earp]

[


Wow I never thought I'd hear that, when doctors also have to pay malpractice insurance before they can even practice medicine. Yet, putting all that aside, should you not be compensated for your education and working under extensive hours? I suppose the major factor of the troubles and bailouts behind the auto companies in Detroit, are the greed of union employees.

The major trouble for the Auto Companies were the executives who paid themselves 8 figure salaries and made shitty decisions, not the union guy making $58K for actually assembling the car.

Which has nothing to do with the fact that doctors in the US are paid more than any country in the world... yet we get the worst results.

Uhm Joe you do remeber the crap cars of the late 70's and early 80's that were being assembled. Joe your an office guy not a industrial guy like me. I know how the Unions worked in the 80's.biggest lazy ass fucks I have ever seen.

 

[Redfish]

Yup. We have this system based on greed, we have the worst results, and it has nothing to do with the system.

Even though everyone else has a different system and gets better results.

Nothing to see here.

our medical system is the best in the world. Why do rich people in those socialized medicine countries come to the US when they have anything serious?

socialism does not work, never has, never will

We have the best healthcare system, but not the best access to it. You shouldn't have to be wealthy to get life saving care.

We have the best military in the world too...that protects all Americans equally.

No one was or is denied medical care in the USA. There was no healthcare crisis that required a complete undoing of the best system in the world.

Yes, there were some problems, but socilaized medicine will only make them worse. Make no mistake------the end game of obamacare is socialized one payer government run medicine.

 

[Seawytch]

You're going to get the Doctor that the government assigns to you and shut the fuck up

As opposed to the one that the Insurance Company assigns to you.

Fun Story. At the last job I had, they brought in the Insurance Company Babe who told us who was and wasn't allowed in our network for dental.

(This would be the job where they eventually fired me after I ran up too many medical bills.)

Anyway, they then told is about which dentists were and weren't allowed in their network. And if I wanted to keep my regular dentist, the one who had been working on my mouth since 1993, I'd have to pay extra for the privilage.

She made a snide comment about people being "Married to their dentists".

I'd trust the government long before I'd trust an insurance company.

As opposed to the one that the Insurance Company assigns to you.


i get a couple hundred to choose from....you must have pretty shitty Ins.....

Most people get insurance through their employer... And they get whatever insurance the employer offers. Many states only have a handful to choose from statewide, even with individual plans.

The problem with our healthcare system is that there is too much profit built in at every level, from the drug companies to the doctors to the device manufacturers to the hospitals....especially the insurance companies.

 

[JoeB131]

you just got through saying it was your Company NOT the Ins Co who fired you.....yet you are still blaming the Ins co.........

Yes, they are the ones who instigated it.

And here's the thing. I got off lucky. Was able to get a new job within a couple weeks, and missed the massacre in Oct. 2008 where they fired 50% of the staff.

But frankly, employer health insurance is really a large part of the problem, because it gives people a false sense of security that they are covered. Until they actually try to file a claim.

i have never had a problem with a claim.....once again....it must be the Company .....Kaiser was fucked for me.....Blue Shield never has denied ANYTHING......

In this case, it was Cigna, and I had to fight with them for about a year because they considered the surgeries "elective" even though they had half a dozen doctors telling them otherwise.

This would be the same Cigna that denied Nataline Sarkisyan a liver transplant, but paid Ed Hanaway 82 million to retire.

 

[Seawytch]

our medical system is the best in the world. Why do rich people in those socialized medicine countries come to the US when they have anything serious?

socialism does not work, never has, never will

We have the best healthcare system, but not the best access to it. You shouldn't have to be wealthy to get life saving care.

We have the best military in the world too...that protects all Americans equally.

No one was or is denied medical care in the USA. There was no healthcare crisis that required a complete undoing of the best system in the world.

Yes, there were some problems, but socilaized medicine will only make them worse. Make no mistake------the end game of obamacare is socialized one payer government run medicine.

Insurance companies do it every day.

Polls in 2008 tell a different story on healthcare.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Uhm Joe you do remeber the crap cars of the late 70's and early 80's that were being assembled. Joe your an office guy not a industrial guy like me. I know how the Unions worked in the 80's.biggest lazy ass fucks I have ever seen.

I work in an office, but most of my jobs have been in manufacturing Purchasing, which means I spend about half my day on the line checking quality on incoming parts and talking with assembly line workers about how well the products I bring in work.

And, yes, I do recall those shitty cars. My first car was a Chevy Chevette. Pretty much had a sewing machine for an engine. But the problem wasn't the way it was put together, it was the way it was designed.

 

[Trajan]

As opposed to the one that the Insurance Company assigns to you.

Fun Story. At the last job I had, they brought in the Insurance Company Babe who told us who was and wasn't allowed in our network for dental.

(This would be the job where they eventually fired me after I ran up too many medical bills.)

Anyway, they then told is about which dentists were and weren't allowed in their network. And if I wanted to keep my regular dentist, the one who had been working on my mouth since 1993, I'd have to pay extra for the privilage.

She made a snide comment about people being "Married to their dentists".

I'd trust the government long before I'd trust an insurance company.

As opposed to the one that the Insurance Company assigns to you.


i get a couple hundred to choose from....you must have pretty shitty Ins.....

Most people get insurance through their employer... And they get whatever insurance the employer offers. Many states only have a handful to choose from statewide, even with individual plans.

The problem with our healthcare system is that there is too much profit built in at every level, from the drug companies to the doctors to the device manufacturers to the hospitals....especially the insurance companies.

uh huh, so what profit margin ( net profit) would you allow them if you could make that call?

 

[Trajan]

[

Uhm Joe you do remeber the crap cars of the late 70's and early 80's that were being assembled. Joe your an office guy not a industrial guy like me. I know how the Unions worked in the 80's.biggest lazy ass fucks I have ever seen.

I work in an office, but most of my jobs have been in manufacturing Purchasing, which means I spend about half my day on the line checking quality on incoming parts and talking with assembly line workers about how well the products I bring in work.

And, yes, I do recall those shitty cars. My first car was a Chevy Chevette. Pretty much had a sewing machine for an engine. But the problem wasn't the way it was put together, it was the way it was designed.

as usual you're stuck on 'Marxist' so, I am not sure if even saying tis will matter, but, the decline of OUR auto industry is equally shared amongst management and labor.....

 

[Trajan]

No. We also don't think people who put thousands of people out of work so he can buy a Dressage Horsie are wonderful people.

Which apparently you do.

man your life must really suck...I have never seen such splenetic envy/jealousy, what? get a life joe.

It ain't about envy guy. It's pragmatism. When all you have in a society is the very poor and the very rich, it doesn't end well for the rich.

i.e.

France 1789
Russia 1917
Cuba 1959
Iran 1979

The only thing that keeps the GOP and it's naked love of Plutocracy in power is that they are usually able to play on the racial, religious and sexual fears of the RUBES to get them to vote against their own economic interests. But even that isn't working anymore. Democrats would have won the last six presidential elections if Republicans hadn't stolen the one in 2000.

I underestimated you ignorance, my mistake........you would be better served by starting your own blog, and spare us, seriously. You are exactly what Lenin and Alnisky hope for and count(ed) on.

 

[Seawytch]

As opposed to the one that the Insurance Company assigns to you.


i get a couple hundred to choose from....you must have pretty shitty Ins.....

Most people get insurance through their employer... And they get whatever insurance the employer offers. Many states only have a handful to choose from statewide, even with individual plans.

The problem with our healthcare system is that there is too much profit built in at every level, from the drug companies to the doctors to the device manufacturers to the hospitals....especially the insurance companies.

uh huh, so what profit margin ( net profit) would you allow them if you could make that call?

Don't know. Less than it is now. It's simply not okay that insurance companies increase their profit margins by denying you the care you've paid for. It's not okay that we can't negotiate drug prices. It's simply not okay that, as a country, we pay the most, but do not have the best outcomes.

What profit margin would you "allow" in education? What profit margin would you "allow" in the Defense of our nation? Not having equal access to our healthcare system kills more Americans every year than terrorists. How much profit should be in saving lives?

 

[Toro]

Most people get insurance through their employer... And they get whatever insurance the employer offers. Many states only have a handful to choose from statewide, even with individual plans.

The problem with our healthcare system is that there is too much profit built in at every level, from the drug companies to the doctors to the device manufacturers to the hospitals....especially the insurance companies.

uh huh, so what profit margin ( net profit) would you allow them if you could make that call?

Don't know. Less than it is now. It's simply not okay that insurance companies increase their profit margins by denying you the care you've paid for. It's not okay that we can't negotiate drug prices. It's simply not okay that, as a country, we pay the most, but do not have the best outcomes.

What profit margin would you "allow" in education? What profit margin would you "allow" in the Defense of our nation? Not having equal access to our healthcare system kills more Americans every year than terrorists. How much profit should be in saving lives?

Healthcare insurance isn't a high margin business. Nor is defense spending. Both are around 5% to 8%. Health insurance is, for the most part, a commodity business. For most health insurance, the companies are passing along the costs and tacking a margin on top of it. Education margins tend to be a bit higher. The typical large business has a profit margin of 8%.

 

[Trajan]

uh huh, so what profit margin ( net profit) would you allow them if you could make that call?

Don't know. Less than it is now. It's simply not okay that insurance companies increase their profit margins by denying you the care you've paid for. It's not okay that we can't negotiate drug prices. It's simply not okay that, as a country, we pay the most, but do not have the best outcomes.

What profit margin would you "allow" in education? What profit margin would you "allow" in the Defense of our nation? Not having equal access to our healthcare system kills more Americans every year than terrorists. How much profit should be in saving lives?

Healthcare insurance isn't a high margin business. Nor is defense spending. Both are around 5% to 8%. Health insurance is, for the most part, a commodity business. For most health insurance, the companies are passing along the costs and tacking a margin on top of it. Education margins tend to be a bit higher. The typical large business has a profit margin of 8%.

get out of my head!!!!!!

anyway, yes, that what I have seen, and lets call it a flat 10%, just to keep them from screaming cover up or accuse us of low balling.

 

[Oddball]

Most people get insurance through their employer... And they get whatever insurance the employer offers. Many states only have a handful to choose from statewide, even with individual plans.

The problem with our healthcare system is that there is too much profit built in at every level, from the drug companies to the doctors to the device manufacturers to the hospitals....especially the insurance companies.

uh huh, so what profit margin ( net profit) would you allow them if you could make that call?

Don't know. Less than it is now. It's simply not okay that insurance companies increase their profit margins by denying you the care you've paid for. It's not okay that we can't negotiate drug prices. It's simply not okay that, as a country, we pay the most, but do not have the best outcomes.

What profit margin would you "allow" in education? What profit margin would you "allow" in the Defense of our nation? Not having equal access to our healthcare system kills more Americans every year than terrorists. How much profit should be in saving lives?

So you don't know jack, but are fine with running the delivery of medical care off of hairy-fairy platitudes and nebulous notions of what constitutes "okay" or not.

Priceless.

 

[Harry Dresden]

MYTH FOUR: DOCTORS WILL NOT ACCEPT MEDICARE BECAUSE OF ALL THESE CUTS

Facts: Most Medicare patients do not have trouble finding doctors who will see them, but there is growing concern about access to primary care physicians.

This issue is monitored closely by the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission (MedPAC), an independent Congressional agency charged with advising Congress on Medicare. The agency's most recent annual survey of Medicare patients found that just 2 percent of beneficiaries had problems of any kind finding a new primary care doctor willing to accept Medicare - the same percentage of patients aged 50-64 with private insurance who report problems.

Top six myths about Medicare | Reuters

Actually, doctors like Medicare a lot better than insurance companies because Medicare pays.

the Doctors i see said they pay but they are a pain in the Ass to work with.....because of all the fucking paperwork that has to be precise or they send bits of it back to be done again.....

Private insurance companies do the same thing.

Study: Doctors More Likely To Drop Private Insurance Than Medicare

thats not what i got out of the 4 Doctors me and the wife see......they all deal with Medicare....all said it is a pain in the ass to work with.....they all said the toughest part about private Ins is fighting with them about what they will cover.....but when they do cover it they pay with very little bullshit.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

As opposed to the one that the Insurance Company assigns to you.

Fun Story. At the last job I had, they brought in the Insurance Company Babe who told us who was and wasn't allowed in our network for dental.

(This would be the job where they eventually fired me after I ran up too many medical bills.)

Anyway, they then told is about which dentists were and weren't allowed in their network. And if I wanted to keep my regular dentist, the one who had been working on my mouth since 1993, I'd have to pay extra for the privilage.

She made a snide comment about people being "Married to their dentists".

I'd trust the government long before I'd trust an insurance company.

As opposed to the one that the Insurance Company assigns to you.


i get a couple hundred to choose from....you must have pretty shitty Ins.....

Most people get insurance through their employer... And they get whatever insurance the employer offers. Many states only have a handful to choose from statewide, even with individual plans.

The problem with our healthcare system is that there is too much profit built in at every level, from the drug companies to the doctors to the device manufacturers to the hospitals....especially the insurance companies.

i have mine through the employer....Blue Shield gives me a few Med Centers to go to and all the Doctors that are there.....hundreds of them...

 

[Harry Dresden]

Yes, they are the ones who instigated it.

And here's the thing. I got off lucky. Was able to get a new job within a couple weeks, and missed the massacre in Oct. 2008 where they fired 50% of the staff.

But frankly, employer health insurance is really a large part of the problem, because it gives people a false sense of security that they are covered. Until they actually try to file a claim.

i have never had a problem with a claim.....once again....it must be the Company .....Kaiser was fucked for me.....Blue Shield never has denied ANYTHING......

In this case, it was Cigna, and I had to fight with them for about a year because they considered the surgeries "elective" even though they had half a dozen doctors telling them otherwise.

This would be the same Cigna that denied Nataline Sarkisyan a liver transplant, but paid Ed Hanaway 82 million to retire.

i have heard how fucked Cigna is....i know a few who had problems with them.....if they are given as a choice with other companies i cant see how anyone would pick them....their rep aint that good....

 

[Toro]

Don't know. Less than it is now. It's simply not okay that insurance companies increase their profit margins by denying you the care you've paid for. It's not okay that we can't negotiate drug prices. It's simply not okay that, as a country, we pay the most, but do not have the best outcomes.

What profit margin would you "allow" in education? What profit margin would you "allow" in the Defense of our nation? Not having equal access to our healthcare system kills more Americans every year than terrorists. How much profit should be in saving lives?

Healthcare insurance isn't a high margin business. Nor is defense spending. Both are around 5% to 8%. Health insurance is, for the most part, a commodity business. For most health insurance, the companies are passing along the costs and tacking a margin on top of it. Education margins tend to be a bit higher. The typical large business has a profit margin of 8%.

get out of my head!!!!!!

anyway, yes, that what I have seen, and lets call it a flat 10%, just to keep them from screaming cover up or accuse us of low balling.

United Healthcare is the largest healthcare insurance company in America (I think). In 2012, it had revenues of $110 billion and profits of $5.5 billion, a profit margin of 5.0%.

UNH Income Statement | UnitedHealth Group Incorporated Stock - Yahoo! Finance

 

[Trajan]

Most people get insurance through their employer... And they get whatever insurance the employer offers. Many states only have a handful to choose from statewide, even with individual plans.

The problem with our healthcare system is that there is too much profit built in at every level, from the drug companies to the doctors to the device manufacturers to the hospitals....especially the insurance companies.

uh huh, so what profit margin ( net profit) would you allow them if you could make that call?

Don't know. Less than it is now. It's simply not okay that insurance companies increase their profit margins by denying you the care you've paid for. It's not okay that we can't negotiate drug prices. It's simply not okay that, as a country, we pay the most, but do not have the best outcomes.

What profit margin would you "allow" in education? What profit margin would you "allow" in the Defense of our nation? Not having equal access to our healthcare system kills more Americans every year than terrorists. How much profit should be in saving lives?

you didn't answer my question and asking me questions on other issues ( I don't recognize any analogy here that works either) is a side issue, I didn't bring it up, 1 thing at a time please.

you said-

too much profit built in at every level,

if you cannot or will not quantify that beyond an emotional basis, we cannot have an intelligent conversation.

 

[Toro]

i have never had a problem with a claim.....once again....it must be the Company .....Kaiser was fucked for me.....Blue Shield never has denied ANYTHING......

In this case, it was Cigna, and I had to fight with them for about a year because they considered the surgeries "elective" even though they had half a dozen doctors telling them otherwise.

This would be the same Cigna that denied Nataline Sarkisyan a liver transplant, but paid Ed Hanaway 82 million to retire.

i have heard how fucked Cigna is....i know a few who had problems with them.....if they are given as a choice with other companies i cant see how anyone would pick them....their rep aint that good....

Cigna had revenues of $29.1 billion 2012 and profits of $1.6 billion, a profit margin of 5.4%.

CI Income Statement | Cigna Corporation Common Stock Stock - Yahoo! Finance

 

[Trajan]

Healthcare insurance isn't a high margin business. Nor is defense spending. Both are around 5% to 8%. Health insurance is, for the most part, a commodity business. For most health insurance, the companies are passing along the costs and tacking a margin on top of it. Education margins tend to be a bit higher. The typical large business has a profit margin of 8%.

get out of my head!!!!!!

anyway, yes, that what I have seen, and lets call it a flat 10%, just to keep them from screaming cover up or accuse us of low balling.

United Healthcare is the largest healthcare insurance company in America (I think). In 2012, it had revenues of $110 billion and profits of $5.5 billion, a profit margin of 5.0%.

UNH Income Statement | UnitedHealth Group Incorporated Stock - Yahoo! Finance

oh yeah , I don't personally disagree with your figures, I have seen 4.^ % and then theres the tortured NY Times article wherein they use a calculation of shareholder value making a case for a 'profit' closer to 13%

I just like padding figures to undercut any BS...even if it were 10% , that is not at all outside any logical benchmark imho.