Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

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RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I'm not sure that you even understand the twin concepts of:


◈ The "Right to Sovereignty" and the right to form a sovereign state (de jure sovereignty)
.........................................................................• 'vs' •
◈ The actual capacity and ability to form and exercise the power by a state (de facto sovereignty).

◈ Which Palestine sovereignty are you speaking of?
You believe that foreign military force can negate Palestine's right to sovereignty.

So then, what is the meaning of non aggression?
(COMMENT)

You have, as I recall, often used the phrase "sovereignty without external interference." When we talk about "sovereignty" in general, we are speaking of a government (governing body) to exercise full power and control
(de facto sovereignty) without external interference. The keyword here is "external" interference. When "Fatah" (the Ramallah Government) interferes with "HAMAS" (the Gaza Government) [or vice versa] that is "internal" (not external) interference. Anyone who tells you that the Arab Palestinians speak with one voice, one leadership, → looking forward with one governing body, is simply not operating in the reality of the ground truth.

(IF • THEN)

IF
the Arab Palestinian leadership cannot, in good faith, come to the negotiating table to hammer out a peace product, THEN they really don't have the "ability" to "settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered," THEN they (the Arab Palestinians) cannot establish international peace and security and the development of friendly relations and co-operation between nations (Israel). And in fact, within recent months, the Arab Palestinians have condemned Israel's success in forging normalized relations with six Arab Countries (not to mention the two Peace Treaties with Egypt and Jordan). [A/RES/25/2625 - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations]

(NON-AGGRESSION)


Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State. [
A/RES/29/3314 - Definition of Aggression] (See Article 8 bis • Crime of Aggression • Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court) Israel used Armed Force in an International Armed Conflict with the Armed Forces of the Arab League in 1948. That was a matter of self-defense pursuant to Article 51 • Chapter VII ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION • UN Charter. That is the use of an Armed Force in an Act of Non-Aggression (defensive fashion).

Israel has never initiated a conflict with a State known as "Palestine." Israel has never initiated a conflict with an Actor that did not demonstrate the "Threat of the use of force." In 1988, The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan abandon the former sovereign holdings in the West Bank and Jerusalem by cutting all ties with the territories West of the Jordan River. The 1967 Conflict over the West Bank and Jerusalem was resolved in 1994 with the creation of a Treaty of Peace between the two sovereign nations.

(EPILOG)

I'm not sure that there is really an entity called the State of Palestine that meets the criteria of a fully functioning government even today. Remember, since 1988, the
Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people. Between the years 1998 and 2012, the designation "Palestine" was used in place of the PLO designation. Until 1998, the territory of Palestine was considered a legal entity (less Israel a sovereign nation). After 1998, "Palestine" was the new designation for the PLO at the UN. After 2012, the Fatah Chairman and President Abbas, started using the State of Palestine designation.

SIGIL PAIR.png

Most Respectfully,
R
 
You have, as I recall, often used the phrase "sovereignty without external interference." When we talk about "sovereignty" in general, we are speaking of a government (governing body) to exercise full power and control (de facto sovereignty) without external interference. The keyword here is "external" interference.
Indeed, that is correct and that is what I have been saying for years. Many times UN resolutions have confirmed that the Palestinians have the right to sovereignty, They have also stated that the Palestinians right to sovereignty has been violated by external military occupation.
 
RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: No one is denying that the Palestinians have the "Right to Sovereignty" (de jure sovereignty).


You have, as I recall, often used the phrase "sovereignty without external interference." When we talk about "sovereignty" in general, we are speaking of a government (governing body) to exercise full power and control (de facto sovereignty) without external interference. The keyword here is "external" interference.
Indeed, that is correct and that is what I have been saying for years. Many times UN resolutions have confirmed that the Palestinians have the right to sovereignty, They have also stated that the Palestinians right to sovereignty has been violated by external military occupation.
(COMMENT)

The major malfunction the Arab Palestinians exhibit, and has been explained many - many - times, the Arab Palestinians have not demonstrated the capacity and ability to form and exercise the power by a state
(de facto sovereignty). (Not in over 70 years.) It is not Israel's fault. It is not America's. It rests squarely with the Arabs. Starting with the conflict beginning in 1946 (the eligibility date for UNRWA Services). And in all that time, the Arab Palestinians have rejected every single potential for peace.

The Arab Palestinians are always whining as the victim, claiming somebody took something from them. But in reality, they have never had the strength to push forward to peace. They either have the ability - or - they don't. But they need to stop their whining and get their act together. The first step is to open negotiations in good faith.

SIGIL PAIR.png

Most Respectfully,
R
 
Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.
Remember it was Israel that attacked, expelled, and occupied the Palestinians. Israel was (is) the aggressor. It is the Palestinians rights that are violated.
 
Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.
Remember it was Israel that attacked, expelled, and occupied the Palestinians. Israel was (is) the aggressor. It is the Palestinians rights that are violated.
indeed, what attack?
link?

When was Israel the aggressor?
link?

”Occupied the Pal’istanians”? Indeed, what does that mean? What “Pal’istanian“ was occupied, or, what sovereign Pal’istanIan land was occupied?
link”

Indeed, no sovereign Pal’istanIan land was occupied.
 
Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.
Remember it was Israel that attacked, expelled, and occupied the Palestinians. Israel was (is) the aggressor. It is the Palestinians rights that are violated.
indeed, what attack?
link?

When was Israel the aggressor?
link?

”Occupied the Pal’istanians”? Indeed, what does that mean? What “Pal’istanian“ was occupied, or, what sovereign Pal’istanIan land was occupied?
link”

Indeed, no sovereign Pal’istanIan land was occupied.

 
Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.
Remember it was Israel that attacked, expelled, and occupied the Palestinians. Israel was (is) the aggressor. It is the Palestinians rights that are violated.
indeed, what attack?
link?

When was Israel the aggressor?
link?

”Occupied the Pal’istanians”? Indeed, what does that mean? What “Pal’istanian“ was occupied, or, what sovereign Pal’istanIan land was occupied?
link”

Indeed, no sovereign Pal’istanIan land was occupied.


 
RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: These are two common themes expressed by the Arab Palestinians. These are in the family
of Faulty Causation Fallacies (Oversimplification and Exaggeration). While most people, from time to time, are guilty of this fallacy, the Arab Palestinians have raised this to a level of an Olympic Sport. (Hah, Ha, while true, it is an example of an Exaggeration Fallacy.)

Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.
Remember it was Israel that attacked, expelled, and occupied the Palestinians. Israel was (is) the aggressor. It is the Palestinians rights that are violated.
(COMMENT)

Israel did not exist (in contemporary history) until 15 May 1948 (independence through self-determination). Most of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip were occupied by the Arab League Forces as an outcome of the combined attack as they left their respective sovereign territories and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate in an effort to use force to accomplish their political objective that the Arab League could not accomplish through diplomacy.

However, when we talk about the Arab-Israeli Conflict, we generally open with the outbreak of hostilities (very low-intensity conflict) in 1946. In that short period between 1946 and 1948, the Jewish paramilitary forces, in anticipation of the coming conflict which the Arab League was making no secret of, began to remove potentially hostile Arab Palestinians under its influence → out from the vicinity of military operations. While there may have been many associated political objectives to this removal, the military reasoning was to secure what would become the "rear area" and to facilities the advanced clearance of roadways (refugee clog) for Jewish troop movements and logistical flow. The would ensure, to the extent possible, that Israeli forces only had to engage hostile forces from one direction [the forward edge of the battle (FEBA)] and not have to fight Arab fifth columnists coming up from behind them. Under Customary and International Humanitarian Law, this would be equivalent to Rule #24 and part of the modern-day
Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I, to the Geneva Convention.

(Not in over 70 years.)
Palestine has been under military occupation for over 70 years. They are allowed to do almost nothing.
(COMMENT)

This is a very tricky piece of misinformation. While it is true that, commonly, the territory under the "Question of Palestine," has been occupied for seventy years, the West Bank, most of Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, by the Arab League for almost 20 years. And the Gaza Strip has been under the control of Arab Palestinian terrorist forces for the last decade.

While it is true that Israeli Force have been in most of the West Bank since 1967, the first twenty years was to secure the area from potential military advances from one of the original Arab League states that committed military units in the 1948 attack. And since 1988, when the Jordanians cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem, the Jordanians, ostensively, left the control in the hands of the Israelis. At the time, the Arab Palestinians had not even declared independence. And when independence was finally declared, the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people was recognized as the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) which was, at the time, an international terrorist group. Still stinging in the ear of the world was the PLO attack on the Olympic Games, the assassination of Ambassador to Sudan Cleo A. Noel, and it was a time when terrorists like Dalal al-Maghribi came into prominence.


(∑Ω)

Although the occupation did present some problems, the real cause was the growth and intensity of the anti-Israeli Operations by Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP). And still today, the Arab Palestinians openly defy international laws that prohibit the advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence directed at the Israelis.

The reason for their retarded economic growth is the concentration of their attention on anti-Israeli activities. The HoAP represent a danger to the regional peace, but what is a heavy fuel to the extended life of terrorism is the indoctrination from childhood that discrimination, hostility or violence directed at the Israelis is normal and as one Senior PLO put it: "Killing Israelis is not terrorism, it is not criminal, it is legitimate."
As long as you have a culture that endorses such in a public forum, you will have a continuation of the status quo.
SIGIL PAIR.png

Most Respectfully,
R
 
RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: These are two common themes expressed by the Arab Palestinians. These are in the family
of Faulty Causation Fallacies (Oversimplification and Exaggeration). While most people, from time to time, are guilty of this fallacy, the Arab Palestinians have raised this to a level of an Olympic Sport. (Hah, Ha, while true, it is an example of an Exaggeration Fallacy.)

Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.
Remember it was Israel that attacked, expelled, and occupied the Palestinians. Israel was (is) the aggressor. It is the Palestinians rights that are violated.
(COMMENT)

Israel did not exist (in contemporary history) until 15 May 1948 (independence through self-determination). Most of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip were occupied by the Arab League Forces as an outcome of the combined attack as they left their respective sovereign territories and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate in an effort to use force to accomplish their political objective that the Arab League could not accomplish through diplomacy.

However, when we talk about the Arab-Israeli Conflict, we generally open with the outbreak of hostilities (very low-intensity conflict) in 1946. In that short period between 1946 and 1948, the Jewish paramilitary forces, in anticipation of the coming conflict which the Arab League was making no secret of, began to remove potentially hostile Arab Palestinians under its influence → out from the vicinity of military operations. While there may have been many associated political objectives to this removal, the military reasoning was to secure what would become the "rear area" and to facilities the advanced clearance of roadways (refugee clog) for Jewish troop movements and logistical flow. The would ensure, to the extent possible, that Israeli forces only had to engage hostile forces from one direction [the forward edge of the battle (FEBA)] and not have to fight Arab fifth columnists coming up from behind them. Under Customary and International Humanitarian Law, this would be equivalent to Rule #24 and part of the modern-day
Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I, to the Geneva Convention.

(Not in over 70 years.)
Palestine has been under military occupation for over 70 years. They are allowed to do almost nothing.
(COMMENT)

This is a very tricky piece of misinformation. While it is true that, commonly, the territory under the "Question of Palestine," has been occupied for seventy years, the West Bank, most of Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, by the Arab League for almost 20 years. And the Gaza Strip has been under the control of Arab Palestinian terrorist forces for the last decade.

While it is true that Israeli Force have been in most of the West Bank since 1967, the first twenty years was to secure the area from potential military advances from one of the original Arab League states that committed military units in the 1948 attack. And since 1988, when the Jordanians cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem, the Jordanians, ostensively, left the control in the hands of the Israelis. At the time, the Arab Palestinians had not even declared independence. And when independence was finally declared, the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people was recognized as the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) which was, at the time, an international terrorist group. Still stinging in the ear of the world was the PLO attack on the Olympic Games, the assassination of Ambassador to Sudan Cleo A. Noel, and it was a time when terrorists like Dalal al-Maghribi came into prominence.


(∑Ω)

Although the occupation did present some problems, the real cause was the growth and intensity of the anti-Israeli Operations by Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP). And still today, the Arab Palestinians openly defy international laws that prohibit the advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence directed at the Israelis.

The reason for their retarded economic growth is the concentration of their attention on anti-Israeli activities. The HoAP represent a danger to the regional peace, but what is a heavy fuel to the extended life of terrorism is the indoctrination from childhood that discrimination, hostility or violence directed at the Israelis is normal and as one Senior PLO put it: "Killing Israelis is not terrorism, it is not criminal, it is legitimate."
As long as you have a culture that endorses such in a public forum, you will have a continuation of the status quo.
SIGIL PAIR.png

Most Respectfully,
R
Where do you get all of this shit?

Link?
 
RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: These are two common themes expressed by the Arab Palestinians. These are in the family
of Faulty Causation Fallacies (Oversimplification and Exaggeration). While most people, from time to time, are guilty of this fallacy, the Arab Palestinians have raised this to a level of an Olympic Sport. (Hah, Ha, while true, it is an example of an Exaggeration Fallacy.)

Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.
Remember it was Israel that attacked, expelled, and occupied the Palestinians. Israel was (is) the aggressor. It is the Palestinians rights that are violated.
(COMMENT)

Israel did not exist (in contemporary history) until 15 May 1948 (independence through self-determination). Most of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip were occupied by the Arab League Forces as an outcome of the combined attack as they left their respective sovereign territories and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate in an effort to use force to accomplish their political objective that the Arab League could not accomplish through diplomacy.

However, when we talk about the Arab-Israeli Conflict, we generally open with the outbreak of hostilities (very low-intensity conflict) in 1946. In that short period between 1946 and 1948, the Jewish paramilitary forces, in anticipation of the coming conflict which the Arab League was making no secret of, began to remove potentially hostile Arab Palestinians under its influence → out from the vicinity of military operations. While there may have been many associated political objectives to this removal, the military reasoning was to secure what would become the "rear area" and to facilities the advanced clearance of roadways (refugee clog) for Jewish troop movements and logistical flow. The would ensure, to the extent possible, that Israeli forces only had to engage hostile forces from one direction [the forward edge of the battle (FEBA)] and not have to fight Arab fifth columnists coming up from behind them. Under Customary and International Humanitarian Law, this would be equivalent to Rule #24 and part of the modern-day
Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I, to the Geneva Convention.

(Not in over 70 years.)
Palestine has been under military occupation for over 70 years. They are allowed to do almost nothing.
(COMMENT)

This is a very tricky piece of misinformation. While it is true that, commonly, the territory under the "Question of Palestine," has been occupied for seventy years, the West Bank, most of Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, by the Arab League for almost 20 years. And the Gaza Strip has been under the control of Arab Palestinian terrorist forces for the last decade.

While it is true that Israeli Force have been in most of the West Bank since 1967, the first twenty years was to secure the area from potential military advances from one of the original Arab League states that committed military units in the 1948 attack. And since 1988, when the Jordanians cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem, the Jordanians, ostensively, left the control in the hands of the Israelis. At the time, the Arab Palestinians had not even declared independence. And when independence was finally declared, the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people was recognized as the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) which was, at the time, an international terrorist group. Still stinging in the ear of the world was the PLO attack on the Olympic Games, the assassination of Ambassador to Sudan Cleo A. Noel, and it was a time when terrorists like Dalal al-Maghribi came into prominence.


(∑Ω)

Although the occupation did present some problems, the real cause was the growth and intensity of the anti-Israeli Operations by Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP). And still today, the Arab Palestinians openly defy international laws that prohibit the advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence directed at the Israelis.

The reason for their retarded economic growth is the concentration of their attention on anti-Israeli activities. The HoAP represent a danger to the regional peace, but what is a heavy fuel to the extended life of terrorism is the indoctrination from childhood that discrimination, hostility or violence directed at the Israelis is normal and as one Senior PLO put it: "Killing Israelis is not terrorism, it is not criminal, it is legitimate."
As long as you have a culture that endorses such in a public forum, you will have a continuation of the status quo.
SIGIL PAIR.png

Most Respectfully,
R
Where do you get all of this shit?

Link?
You didn't see the links?

Link?
 
Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.
Remember it was Israel that attacked, expelled, and occupied the Palestinians. Israel was (is) the aggressor. It is the Palestinians rights that are violated.
indeed, what attack?
link?

When was Israel the aggressor?
link?

”Occupied the Pal’istanians”? Indeed, what does that mean? What “Pal’istanian“ was occupied, or, what sovereign Pal’istanIan land was occupied?
link”

Indeed, no sovereign Pal’istanIan land was occupied.



No guns. No uniforms. No Hamas flags. No riots.

Just a bunch of people walking around with Palestinian flags.
 
Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State.
Remember it was Israel that attacked, expelled, and occupied the Palestinians. Israel was (is) the aggressor. It is the Palestinians rights that are violated.
indeed, what attack?
link?

When was Israel the aggressor?
link?

”Occupied the Pal’istanians”? Indeed, what does that mean? What “Pal’istanian“ was occupied, or, what sovereign Pal’istanIan land was occupied?
link”

Indeed, no sovereign Pal’istanIan land was occupied.



No guns. No uniforms. No Hamas flags. No riots.

Just a bunch of people walking around with Palestinian flags.

Well, that’s strange. It’s as though you’re out of touch... or something.

I guess Islamic terrorism is defined as “peaceful protests” except for the acts of Islamic terrorism.

 
Well, isn’t this strange. We’re told that the Pally gee-had isn’t about religion. Yet, the Pally’s tell us differently.

Decisions, decisions.


What is the PA definition of “a holy war for the sake of Allah”?


Itamar Marcus | Jan 6, 2021
  • Question: Who “fought a holy war for the sake of Allah"?
  • PA Answer: A terrorist responsible for the murder of 9 civilians including a 9-month old!
  • “Heroic Martyr Marwan Kayed Zalum… fought a holy war for the sake of Allah... [for] Fatah”
  • “Zalum was endowed with courage and strength… had lofty morals”
  • “He was always at the front of the struggle against the Zionist enemy.”
The official PA daily has devoted a lot of space recently to celebrate the 56th anniversary of its first terror attack, which it calls the launch of the Fatah Movement. Among the articles it chose to publish, was an op-ed that went out of its way to praise, glorify, and honor a terrorist who was involved in the murder of at least 9 Israelis, including a 9-month-old baby.

Terrorist Marwan Zalum was responsible for a number of terror attacks, including sending the terrorist who shot and murdered an infant in 2001. Zalum also organized the planting of a bomb which murdered one, and initiated a shooting attack in which an additional person was murdered. Zalum also provided the bomb used in a suicide attack in 2002, in which 6 people were murdered and 80 wounded. Zalum was killed by the Israeli army in 2002.

The recent article in the official PA daily described Zalum’s “career” as head of Fatah's designated terror organization, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, honoring him for being “responsible for many shooting operations” and “self-sacrificing operations” – the PA’s euphemisms for terror attacks and suicide bombings. The writer even singled out one such suicide bombing as “the most prominent.” The article referred to the PA's terror campaign from 2000-2005 in which more than 1,100 Israelis were murdered, "the blessed Al-Aqsa Intifada":
The following is a longer excerpt of the op-ed:
“Martyr fighter Marwan Kayed Mutlaq Abd Al-Karim Zalum ‘Abu Saja’ (i.e., terrorist, involved in murder of at least 9) was born in Hebron in 1960 to one of the famous Hebron families…
He left for Jordan, and from there for Lebanon where he joined the Fatah Movement and was one of its fighters…
He returned to the homeland mere months before the outbreak of the blessed Al-Aqsa Intifada (i.e., PA terror campaign 2000-2005, more than 1,100 Israelis murdered), and received an appointment in the Palestinian [PA] Security Forces like his comrades who preceded him.
 
Howdy, neighbor. Ya’ got a problem with that?





Rep. Rashida Tlaib's (D., Mich.) new neighbor in her congressional office building intends to fly an Israeli flag as a statement against Tlaib's anti-Israel stance.

Freshman Rep. Kat Cammack (R., Fla.), who has been given the office next to Tlaib’s for the 117th Congress, says she hopes Israel's flag will send a message to Tlaib, a frequent critic of Israel who has a history of anti-Semitic comments.
 
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