"You didn't get there on your own"

[Cecilie1200]

Every business that hires employees who have gotten a basic education in a public school, and higher education in a state school, or a military academy, or via government aid,

that business benefits from government spending that it did not pay for. The economic value of the employees' education is a government funded benefit to employers.

Public education costs an average of $11,000 per pupil a year. Imagine if business had to teach their employees to read, do math or operate a computer?

Each employee they hire has an education that costs the the taxpayers over $100,000. Employers turn around and profit off of skills they didn't pay for

omg

Lemme just correct RW's mistakes here.

We SPEND an average of $11,000 per pupil per year on public education. That's a bit different from saying, "It costs $11,000 a year to properly educate a pupil", or God help and save us, "We're actually getting $11,000 a year worth of education".

Furthermore, businesses more and more often are finding it hard to locate high school graduates who can read, do math, or operate a computer to the levels they need. Does anyone really think that, since colleges are having to send more and more applicants to remedial English and math classes, that businesses are having any better luck with the crop of dunces our public schools are turning out?

I don't think the left wants to be touting the "great benefit" they're giving businesses in "educated applicants". Furthermore, "Profit off of skills they didn't pay for?" Really, fucktard? Businesses don't pay taxes to support public schools? You think so, RW, you shitforbrains?

 

[naturegirl]

What exactly do you think they are trying to progress to?

A more perfect Union.

I see nothing "more perfect" about a Union whose terms you have to force on people against their will, kicking and screaming. But then, MY goal in a Union isn't to wind up running other people's lives for them.

More perfect Union includes of the people, by the people and for the people. Not the President, not Congress.............nothing to do with the government itself. Government is the American people, we are not a monarchy, dictatorship or communist.

Government has way overreached. It's time to reign them in, at the voting booth.

 

[Katzndogz]

So the government built a fucking highway, and that somehow gives them the right to plunder the wealth of this country in order to line their own pockets and and make their already rich supporters even richer?? What am I missing here.

WHY did the government build the road?
Because of the commerce taking place in and through the area.
Commerce came first, then government.

And paid for by working people.

How did they do that? It's not like we had an income tax.

 

[Misty]

Obama is insulting hard working Americans who made a success of their life. What a stupid moron.

 

[Inthemiddle]

"You didn't get there on your own"

That's what my wife says every time we have sex...

Only when the government fucks you it doesn't care if you get there or not.

Actually, I'm not the government, and when I have sex with a woman, I really don't care if she gets there or not. I got mine, time to move along.

 

[Inthemiddle]

This thread is a perfect example as to why not everyone should own a business.

Yeah, because that's an economic system that's sure to succeed.

 

[Cecilie1200]

exactly
liberals are nothing but users of people, even the disabled who want to make something of themselves

Exactly nothing. There are two main problems with this argument.

1. Hawking is not a paraplegic. He has a motor neuron disease called ALS. His condition first began expressing itself when he was 21 years old. After diagnosis, and his condition progressed and eventually stablized for a time, he had a great deal of direct and personal help that allowed him to complete his doctorate and begin his career. As his condition has progressed, Hawking has continued to need an increasing amount of personal assistance for every day living affairs.

2. All that aside, even if we completely ignore it, your point would still be fallacy of accident. Hawking is one of the most remarkably intelligent people to ever live. He has extremely unique gifts. His life is nowhere near typical of anyone, or of disabled persons.

1) You're right. Hawking isn't a paraplegic. He's a quadriplegic, since paraplegics have only lost the function of the lower half of the body. Doesn't really much matter to the definition HOW he lost that function. That's just hair-splitting.

2) So your belief is that Hawking is an exception, and that all other severely handicapped people are useless and have nothing to offer society? Is that really what you're arguing for?

 

[Inthemiddle]

Hitler promoted development and production of the Volkswagon.

Obama promoted development and production of the Chevy Volt.

There's an analogy there.

That one day the Volt will be a beloved as the Beetle once was? Or that Godwin's law is still alive and well?

 

[ConzHateUSA]

Obama is insulting hard working Americans who made a success of their life. What a stupid moron.

To quote a movie "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go thru life, son"

 

[Inthemiddle]

But then, MY goal in a Union isn't to wind up running other people's lives for them.

I'm glad that we both can at least be united on one thing; no more opposition to gay marriage, abortion rights, or drug usage. Okay, three things.

 

[Vel]

This thread is a perfect example as to why not everyone should own a business. You bust your butt, you work long days, sometimes with little or no sleep, you risk everything you've earned, you deal with the Federal Government and it's taxes, you deal with the State Government and it's taxes, you deal with the County Government and it's taxes, you deal with the City Government and it's taxes paying them all, never blinking an eye.

You hire employees, pay them, match their Federal taxes for SS and Medicare, pay the state Unemployment tax, get mandated Worker's Compensation and General Liablity Insurance and yet you're the bad guy, you're the one that's just not paying enough. Don't forget about the rent and utilities necessary to house the business. Some make money, some get by, some shut their doors.

When I hire people, I'm compensating them for their time. It's a contract agreed on by two people. You don't have to work for me if you don't like the contract terms. Then they get to go home with their paychecks, yet they are the risk takers, they are the entitled person??

You know, what about me and my family...........Obama doesn't give a crap about us, heck Americans that don't agree with him are his enemies. I think he has managed to make enough small business owners angry enough to get them to the voting booth in November.

Don't forget that we also get to be the government's unpaid tax collectors and get to spend thousands of dollars per year on record keeping and CPA's in order to do the job of unpaid tax collector.

 

[Inthemiddle]

1) You're right. Hawking isn't a paraplegic. He's a quadriplegic, since paraplegics have only lost the function of the lower half of the body. Doesn't really much matter to the definition HOW he lost that function. That's just hair-splitting.

Actually, I further misspoke, because I meant to say that he wasn't always a (near) quadriplegic.

So your belief is that Hawking is an exception, and that all other severely handicapped people are useless and have nothing to offer society? Is that really what you're arguing for?

*cough* I'll point you to the last person who wanted to make insinuations about my feelings regarding disabled persons. And I'll kindly ask you to refrain from putting words in my mouth, regardless of the the subject.

 

[chikenwing]

Hitler promoted development and production of the Volkswagon.

Obama promoted development and production of the Chevy Volt.

There's an analogy there.

That one day the Volt will be a beloved as the Beetle once was? Or that Godwin's law is still alive and well?

The Volt and a cordless drill are the same,tools that have a place,great inventions one has revolutionized the trades,the other will transportation,but both have some real world limitations no real significant power.

 

[Cecilie1200]

People make their own deals to trade their time for money. No one is forcing them to work for anyone. And if you've ever had to hire a HS grad you'd have serious doubts about just how "educated " they are.


It doesn't provide any of those. We pay for them. In fact I pay a higher rate for business phone lines than the average person.


Does not apply to a lot of businesses as not all do business abroad.


Police don't protect my business I do by hiring a private alarm monitoring company. Police show up after a crime has been committed and most times stolen property is never recovered nor are the perpetrators caught.

Fire department s are not free either you know. Business people pay for them too. In my town we have a volunteer fire department which local businesses support quite generously I might add.



It costs a lot of money to patent an idea and society does not pay that cost nor will it actively seek out patent or copyright infringements the persons holding the copyright or patent must submit proof of an infringement.

You hire trained employess that our society has paid for. If you don't like the quality of their training, by all means train them yourself. They are your employees

That entire communications infrastructure was subsidized by the taxpayer. You hook into that network for a marginal cost to yourself. What you pay for communications in no way compenstes for the benefit you receive

International trade affects all businesses whether you know it or not

Your society is paying for that police and fire department. If your business is invaded or on fire, it is your community that will protect you

Notice libs act like YOU, the small busines owners pays no TAXES that pay for fire or police.

It's just everybody else that supposedly pays for those taxes.

I would love to see a comparison of how much the small business owner pays AND COLLECTS IN SALES TAXES, compared to how much those customers pay in taxes.

Yet the customers are owed the profits of the business?

Oh, yes, I had forgotten about that. In addition to the benefits society gets from businesses in the way of the property and myriad other taxes businesses pay, the jobs businesses provide, and the conveniently available goods and services, society ALSO gets the benefit of using businesses as unpaid tax collectors for sales tax.

 

[Vel]

You hire trained employess that our society has paid for. If you don't like the quality of their training, by all means train them yourself. They are your employees

That entire communications infrastructure was subsidized by the taxpayer. You hook into that network for a marginal cost to yourself. What you pay for communications in no way compenstes for the benefit you receive

International trade affects all businesses whether you know it or not

Your society is paying for that police and fire department. If your business is invaded or on fire, it is your community that will protect you

Notice libs act like YOU, the small busines owners pays no TAXES that pay for fire or police.

It's just everybody else that supposedly pays for those taxes.

I would love to see a comparison of how much the small business owner pays AND COLLECTS IN SALES TAXES, compared to how much those customers pay in taxes.

Yet the customers are owed the profits of the business?

Oh, yes, I had forgotten about that. In addition to the benefits society gets from businesses in the way of the property and myriad other taxes businesses pay, the jobs businesses provide, and the conveniently available goods and services, society ALSO gets the benefit of using businesses as unpaid tax collectors for sales tax.

Don'r forget that you get to collect FICA, Medicare and Federal Withholding as well as state taxes if you're in a state with an income tax.

 

[Cecilie1200]

.

Obama is taking an interesting and dangerous approach on the campaign trail, telling successful business owners that they "didn't get there on their own", that their success is predicated in part on the labor and efforts (and taxes) of others. This gives the GOP an opening to say, "see, he hates business owners, we told you so."

On the other hand, it opens up a national conversation that I've never seen before, building on Elizabeth Warren's comments as she runs for office.

This tactic is flying right into the teeth of the GOP's strength, that business and employers are the key to economic success. He's betting that the GOP, so controlled by absolutists right now, is going to look anti-ALL workers, not just union.

Pretty brave, and I think it's a good conversation to have.

Obama Mocks Rich: 'You Didn't Get There On Your Own'

.

Oh he totally screwed himself with that comment...

He basically insulted every self-made successful individual when he said that.

It really goes to show how fucked up Obama actually is and it sheds light on the notion that he certainly believes that government should play a central role in every individuals life and that government should play a central role in every business...

He may as well should have came out and said: "you don't make you successful - government makes you successful."

Obama is such an arrogant piece of shit....

That's probably the way most conservatives would interpret it because they tend to think in black-and-white. But then, conservatives won't be voting for Obama anyway.

Your big problem is that it's not just conservatives who are going to "interpret" it that way. Anyone who isn't a dedicated Obama-worshipper is going to hear it that way, too (mostly because that's actually what it MEANS).

 

[Katzndogz]

No matter how much of your own capital you saved and invested in your little enterprise. No matter how hard you worked, now much you sacrificed, obama says it was all for nothing. The government did it and now you owe the government all of your success.

This is absolutely the most disguting thing to ever crawl out from between obama's lying lips.

 

[Staidhup]

How interesting is that, so which came first the chicken or the egg debate about who built what and for what and who's benefit?
The first major roads were toll roads, privately owned and maintained, those engaged in commerce paid the largest percentage of toll fee's. Ferry crossings were privately owned and operated, again, merchants paid the largest toll fee's. Commerce centered along water ways and toll roads for the simple reason as to move product to and from market. Without commerce none of the infrastructure would have been possible to fund. As commerce developed the free market addressed transportation issues, not the government! Unfortunately liberals view development in commerce as the result of government spending when in fact is was funded by the private sector. The old supply and demand phenomenon of private Enterprise. It was not until later, during the industrial revolution, that government assumed control. The same as with electrical generation, distribution, and rail roads. What the President fails to understand is that when a government is pro business the two work in unison resulting in job creation and increases in the standard of living. When one demonizes business the symbiotic relationship collapses and forces business to move outside the grasp and control of government. If one were to read US economic history, they would soon learn that the uniqueness of the American dream was based on this symbiotic relationship that was only possible in a country established on the very premises of Adam Smith and John Locke that was not binded by monarchal and caste systems. Tocqueville spent years researching and writing about the American spirit and how government and free enterprise melded into the greatest power and opportunity the world had ever witnessed, but then again, he also warned that what made America great would some day, if left unchecked and guarded, would possibly be it's down fall.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So, business should thank government for not taking more of what isn't theirs in the first place?

And just who is paying for this "labor and effort of others"?

Just like a republican to have such a narcissistic and self-centered point of view.
They cannot admit that it takes more than an idea to have it work.
If you think your hard-work alone and your money alone makes a business thrive then you have the narcissistic attitude and reality in now way shape or form can make you see the truth.

The TRUTH is that jobs are a byproduct of a successful business. Jose wants to clothe and feed his family, so he finds an old bicycle and fits a box on it. He starts selling tamales his wife makes on the street. People really like his tamales and he sells out each day with people wanting more. Jose finds another bicycle and fits a box on it. He finds a relative to start selling his tamales so he is doing twice the business. Of course, his wife can't make twice the tamales she was, so they have another relative making tamales too. Eventually, he needs to add additional bikes and workers to keep up with demands. He also has to find a commercial kitchen and centralize his tamale making with all the staff under one roof. He realizes that he can cover more territory with trucks selling tamales than with bicycles. People buying his tamales ask about tacos and burritos, so he expands his menu and on it goes.

Jose had an idea and took the initiative to act on it to make enough money to support his immediate family. He made the decisions and took the risk at each point of his journey. Because he had a good product that people desired, he was successful and with his success came growth and with growth came jobs........but he never started the company to provide others with jobs. Just to feed his family. His employees work hard and are paid for their time and ability. But if Jose hadn't decided to sell tamales, look how many less jobs there would have been. Is Jose supposed to give each employee an equal share of his profits? Is he being an evil rich greedy bastard if he doesn't? According to Obama he is. Jose doesn't deserve any praise for starting a tamale company that employees a lot of people. His bicycle salesmen made him what he is. What horse shit!

And meanwhile, the government that Obama alleges is "making him successful" is pestering the crap out of him to buy a business license, buy a food vendor's license, inundating him with forms for taxes and wanting him to charge sales tax, investigating him for zoning violations because his wife is making the tamales in the kitchen of their home, sending the Health Department around to cite him because his home kitchen isn't set up like a commercial kitchen, and forcing him to lease and move to a business property before he's really financially ready to just to avoid all the fines and legal hassles.

Damn, I just don't know how Jose's tamale business would EVER have made it without the government's "help".

 

[kwc57]

"You didn't get there on your own"

That's what my wife says every time we have sex...

Only when the government fucks you it doesn't care if you get there or not.

Actually, I'm not the government, and when I have sex with a woman, I really don't care if she gets there or not. I got mine, time to move along.

I'm pretty sure you meant IF you ever had sex with a woman.